Kiez Burn e.V. - Request for clarification - Consensual doocracy
Following my recent initiative, I wish to seek formal clarification from the board of Kiez Burn e.V. on a few specific questions.
Here's how I understand the consensual doocracry process:
Anybody in the community can bring forward an initiative.
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If they seek advice on this initiative, and they listen to the concerns being raised, and they make an earnest attempt to respond to these concerns, then:
So long as no laws are being breached
The Kiez Burn e.V. foundation, and its board, will permit this initiative to move forward
The key question here is does a proposal or initiative require explicit consent from the board or not?
Also, for further clarification:
Under what circumstances will the board step in to block or veto initiatives (which are within the law)?
I'll write more below about my motivation and so on. I'd like to keep the specific questions as clear as possible so the board may offer as clear an answer as possible.
EDIT: I'd like to add a third question to this:
Is the Kiez Burn e.V. board willing to let Kiez Burn 2020 fail (not happen at all) if the community does not carry it?
I think it's important to directly acknowledge this. Much of my experience has been that if some core people believe something might endanger the event happening, they will block. I think greater clarity here will be helpful.
CJ Yetman Fri 31 Jan 2020 7:11PM
and here's some more where it expressly contrasts KB do-ocracy with democracy and voting/polls, e.g. "Kiez Burn is not a democracy. Voting isn’t the purpose of all these processes, collective intelligence is." https://talk.kiezburn.org/d/N8qcmdSi/philosophy-culture
CJ Yetman Fri 31 Jan 2020 6:06PM
Binding and non-biding are just words that I’m using. I am not the keeper of do-ocracy terminology. What is a word that you would be more comfortable with me using?
CJ Yetman Fri 31 Jan 2020 6:30PM
here's the beginnings of an explanation of the "advice process" (note: no mention of polls, voting, or "binding") https://talk.kiezburn.org/d/IjSQFmf0/the-advice-process
CJ Yetman Fri 31 Jan 2020 6:31PM
Saskia Sun 2 Feb 2020 11:01AM
Same.
Benjamin Langholz Fri 31 Jan 2020 12:24PM
It was very cold when we were talking so the explanation may have been rushed 😆
CJ Yetman Fri 31 Jan 2020 8:03AM
My answer would be... because this process is very hard and exhausting. That is the nature of the thing. In a hierarchical organization decisions are easy. You are given authority. You may or may not listen to others advice. You decide when you’ve heard enough. That’s not how do-ocracy works apparently.
I never said or suggested that Callum failed. I’m saying it sounds like he believes this process has failed to produce the result that it promises, or the board has failed to follow through on their willingness to let things be decided by this process. I’m suggesting that the process might not be over and it might be a little too early to make that call. Maybe after another few days and a bunch more debate, Callum will see that the tides have turned, and after making edits to his proposal, listening to more feedback, maybe even making some compromises, suddenly a strong consensus will start to form and soon after he’ll get to launch his baby and everything will be fine and dandy. After such an experience, would It make sense to ask whether the board actually supports and agrees to this do-ocratic process?
If his question is actually “why is this so difficult? Why is it taking so long? Why am I not getting what I want?” Then well, those are different questions with different answers, but that’s not how I interpreted it.
CJ Yetman Fri 31 Jan 2020 12:04PM
@Benjamin Langholz I have a very opposite impression. I've heard said numerous times that polls/voting are non-binding and merely informational. Where have you seen that if a "vote passes you’re good to go"?
Benjamin Langholz Fri 31 Jan 2020 12:13PM
This was my impression after asking several people how to actually get something to happen. Most recently @Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) gave me this explanation. The words “good to go” we’re likely not used, but this was the explanation of the process as I understood (along with what Callum posted).
meowmeow · Fri 31 Jan 2020 5:56PM
I haven’t seen it said that polling is not a valid way to get advice. The confusion lies in the mixed use of binding and non-binding advice. The next catch word this process has evolved to is: BINDING. Is there more to be said about this mysterious substance? Is it a requirement for a doer to actually do something? Who generates it? The community or the board? Or is it preferable to the board to make the community believe it is decreed by the gods?