talk.kiezburn.org
Thu 30 Jan 2020 6:13PM

Kiez Burn e.V. - Request for clarification - Consensual doocracy

CM Callum Macdonald Public Seen by 95

Following my recent initiative, I wish to seek formal clarification from the board of Kiez Burn e.V. on a few specific questions.

Here's how I understand the consensual doocracry process:

  • Anybody in the community can bring forward an initiative.

  • If they seek advice on this initiative, and they listen to the concerns being raised, and they make an earnest attempt to respond to these concerns, then:

    • So long as no laws are being breached

    • The Kiez Burn e.V. foundation, and its board, will permit this initiative to move forward

The key question here is does a proposal or initiative require explicit consent from the board or not?

Also, for further clarification:

Under what circumstances will the board step in to block or veto initiatives (which are within the law)?

I'll write more below about my motivation and so on. I'd like to keep the specific questions as clear as possible so the board may offer as clear an answer as possible.


EDIT: I'd like to add a third question to this:

Is the Kiez Burn e.V. board willing to let Kiez Burn 2020 fail (not happen at all) if the community does not carry it?

I think it's important to directly acknowledge this. Much of my experience has been that if some core people believe something might endanger the event happening, they will block. I think greater clarity here will be helpful.

CM

Callum Macdonald Thu 30 Jan 2020 6:21PM

Motivation

Several people have expressed concerns to me in private that proposals for change within Kiez Burn are only possible if they are approved by a few core organisers. While the organisation simultaneously is publicly saying "anybody can take action".

I see people who want to contribute, but who are not, for whatever reason, supported by this small group of people, and so their inputs are ultimately squeezed out.

I realise that some of these core group have put a tremendous amount of work into Kiez Burn, have a lot of experience and expertise that's relevant. I understand that, in some ways, Kiez Burn is their "baby", and it can be very challenging to see people make proposals which may appear risky, dangerous, or just downright crazy. I empathise with the challenges of stepping back, and allowing new blood to take part in the organisation.

I also feel like the situation needs to be clear. I think it is unacceptable for the board to advertise for volunteers on the basis of a "you are free to make the change you wish to see" philosophy, if this is not factually accurate.

I know many of the core team have expressed that they burn out from doing too much work on Kiez Burn. That the burden of organising such a large event can be a heavy toll on a small group of volunteers. I sense that it is hard to feel overworked, maybe under appreciated, and to see new and potentially disruptive influence happening in the community.

My hope is that the board, and the core organisers, will consider their position on this topic, and will publish a clear and unambiguous statement. Personally, I'm comfortable with the board retaining decision making power. I'm comfortable with a small group running Kiez Burn. This is how Burning Man has been run for over 30 years. My intention is to bring clarity on this topic.

EJ

Erin Jeavons-Fellows Thu 30 Jan 2020 10:25PM

@CJ Yetman I'm not sure how to read your reply. I read it as a criticism to Callum's initiative. I don't believe he was trying to devalue the work that people have put in in previous years at all... In fact respecting it. His initiative is within the rules of do-ocracy and realms of how he interprets consensual do-ocracy (after even going to the consensual do-ocracy workshop last weekend put on my Waldo and Remy). He is requesting for support, clarity and advice. Correct me if I'm wrong, it seems you're requesting Callum to consider if he has failed in his interpretation of this or simply give up from exhaustion on his initiative? This is disappointing if someone who genuinely believes they follow values would have to consider giving up from utter exhaustion while trying to support Kiez Burn 😢

BL

Benjamin Langholz Fri 31 Jan 2020 11:52AM

I’m also very curious about this topic. I’ve had the system explains to me essentially how Callum described. With the addition of specifically posting on this platform for a vote essentially requesting the participation and opinion of the community. If that vote passes you’re good to go.

it has also been verbalized (irl) very clearly that the amount of participation on a poll or proposal doesn’t matter. As well as that there is no hierarchy in decision making. Which sounded to me like there would be no space for the idea of blocking of vetoing from a board.

I’m very curious if this is how it will play out in reality.

M

meowmeow Fri 31 Jan 2020 1:28PM

May I ask how a doacracy is supposed to actually function? Surely we can argue whether it should be the word “poll” or any other semantic amusement, but which mechanism if not with polling should we use it its place? I’m starting to get the strong impression that there is no doacracy and decisions need to be approved by a hierarchy hidden behind a doacratic facade.

M

meowmeow Fri 31 Jan 2020 4:20PM

If polling doesn’t consist of advice from everyone, what other forms of advice are there that can be used aside from asking the board? I’m just waiting for the answer to change terms enough times to finally realise how a do-er is capable of do-ing without approval, I’m sorry not approval, “advice”. I’m sincerely hoping this Doacracy presented isn’t an imitation of an Askocracy and eager to find out how the Kiezburn community is capable of pressing buttons on our own.

DU

Alina, also known as Universe Fri 31 Jan 2020 11:24PM

Very important and interesting thread.

My personal take on the whole is that we have thrown ourselves into a "radical do-ocracy" without having prepared the ground. My guess is the process was rushed without much work having been done to ensure a smooth transition. We cannot just make everyone a captain, jetzt. We'll ram into the first iceberg.

I see this thread here as a demonstration of UNclarity on the role and duties/powers of KB e.V: https://talk.kiezburn.org/d/BAGC21ov/what-is-kiez-burn-e-v-and-how-does-it-work-

I stand by @Callum Macdonald 's request to understand the role of KB e.V and the KB board (I don't even understand if that is 1 or 2 different bodies @waldo ?)

I am guessing the rushed decentralisation effort came out of a desire to radically empower our community + offload the load off the shoulders of a few key individuals that have been driving this huge and chaotic boat until today.

I would like to propose to acknowledge collectively that this has been done somewhat quickly and awkwardly. And that that is OK.

Let's note that apart from a few individuals hanging out here, the majority of KB attendees don't have a clue about what is going on. The majority might be just waiting to buy some tickets and an opportunity to place a camp soon-ish? Yes, maybe not ready for that thing called do-ocracy just yet.

We lacked prep and communications, we lacked a smooth transition.

Let's remember that this is all a big experiment, that we love co-creating with each other, and that all of this is not so important compared to the expanse of the Universe ;)

<3

M

meowmeow Sat 1 Feb 2020 4:59PM

I’m simply going to read between the lines of my ignored questions with a final question:

If the Kiezburn board admits that they can veto anything they feel like and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

W

walto Sat 1 Feb 2020 6:30PM

As a member of the board, to who this post is directed, and as one of the people who has led the transition 2 years ago towards decentralization, I would like to acknowledge this post and ask for more time to respond.

Thank you.

DU

Alina, also known as Universe Sat 1 Feb 2020 9:08PM

I admit I do not know who is on The Board this year? So who are we talking to here? The search on Talk just brings up the closed group. I did find the information on the website - I'm not sure if it's 2019 or 2020?

The current board members
Remy Schneider
Erin Jeavons-Fellows
Waldo Vanderhagen
Alex Cuthbertson
Hanna-Maija Oukka
Saskia Annen
Franziska Sedlak

Maybe it would be fair to tag the Board members here? Not just @waldo becasue he's the most active?

Please correct me if wrong tags/people/board from last year!

@Remy Schneider @Erin Jeavons-Fellows @waldo @Alexxx @Hanna-Maija @Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) @Franzi ?

<3

CY

CJ Yetman Fri 31 Jan 2020 12:20PM

interesting.... @Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) what's your take on this? I was pretty sure you were in the polls/votes are non-binding camp based on the poll you did for the dream token redistribution last year, in which I thought you did an excellent job of explaining that the poll was for information and was non-binding.

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