(Closed)Do we want to grow the Kiez Burn population in 2022?
Veroca R. Sala
Public
Seen by 48
Update: proposal is cancelled reasons are in the outcome of the poll at the bottom
this discussion will be open until 7.02.2022 and just then I will make a final poll which will be online for 5 days ( 12.02.2022 ). With this decision in place, tickets can move forward as well as the Korg having some certainly around the size of the event by the date of their next meeting (17.02.22)
Hi all, I am Vero. Second-year in the Board of the e.V, Korg 2021.
On this thread, I propose AND I seek advice to decide if we want more Kiez burners on the playa or if we are okay with the small villa.
Deadline 12th of February 2022
Information gathered before posting
I have taken into consideration some previous discussions around Kiez Burn population growth, to now open it again and decide whether we want to have another 1100 people event this year, or if we want to grow.
On this thread we discussed tickets prices, Kiez Burn popularity, freecampers cap and how can we approach more organic growth.
[Open Discussion] On popularity, organic growth, virgins, and inclusivity
I have also taken the results of the census 2021
( I've got to say I am surprised to see a 34% of new burners, since the last time I checked the results were 22% )
I have been present at the Kiez Burn retrospective in 2021 and have taken into consideration the challenges in 2021 in regards to LNT and strike, while we seem to have some lessons learned there.
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Kiez Burn population growth thread from 2020 where we decided to grow on a 10% ( from 1000 to 1100)
People/roles most affected by this proposal or and with most acknowledge
We dont have all 2022 realizers so Im tagging those who are currently involved and those who I remember their handles, but of course, im open to hear new perspectives.
@Kris (tickets lead)
@Cairn (Clément) (2021 site management)
@CJ Yetman (Korg lead)
@Diarmaid (Dreams lead)
@Jan-Christian Kaspareit
@Cris
@Caro T
@Mareike
@Saskia
@Owl (Holger)
@Professor Kaos
@Franzi
@kathleen ( Finance realizer and Shatzmeisterin)
@Jan Thomas
The proposal
Background
This will be the 5th Kiez Burn event in history.
Since 2019, we have been planning a 1000-1100 participants event. While I am aware that we all as a community need to put in work to grow in a healthy and organic way, I believe it would possibly be a positive turn of events if we had more participants, therefore more tickets and liquidity to have more art on the playa (btw tickets price could be raised on a 20% - 30% not in this discussion).
It is my wish to make dreamers feel Kiez Burn welcomes their projects instead of the contrary. I believe that by having more population, and more money for art, in combination with a good tickets sales strategy that will somehow keep us away from the first come first served and, a cool art funding tool as it has been semi thought through and shared on this thread (Rethinking Dreams) we could have a very sweet burn. 🤗
The proposal
My proposal is to grow Kiez Burn population on a 25% ( off an 1100 participants cap we already had in place since the last advice process. In 2021 we had 1000 participants which had to do with pandemic restrictions)
After collecting input from those who participated in this thread, I reconsider my previous proposal and suggest a 10% growth.
We seem to feel more on the safe side when growing in small bits, giving time and space to community members to gain experience and participate more, in addition to all concerns in regards to site planning. Having a cap on 1200 participants seems to be reasonable.
What are the advantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)
As I see it, we could expand the community, welcome new inhabitants.
What are the disadvantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)
will be all a disaster? who knows!!!
Open questions
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Will the site be too crowded? - Need input from site management
Answer to this question on this comment https://talk.kiezburn.org/d/reyAcw4o/do-we-want-to-grow-the-kiez-burn-population-in-2022-/8
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will we have to pay for extra toilets? what is the capacity cap for Freiland?
Freiland gave us some numbers for their permit application in 2020 (1300 attendants planned). In terms of requirements most numbers stayed the same (security, medical service) – apart from more sanitary facilities (25 toilets, 10 Urinals – in 2021 we had ca. 20). With 1500 attendants, numbers can be higher and we'll have to check with the Amt...
Decision
Veroca R. Sala Thu 3 Feb 2022 8:55AM
"My recommendation would be to increase to as many tickets as possible while still being considered reasonably safe" agree, that is the big question...
what that safe number would be? 🤓
Kris Fri 4 Feb 2022 9:54AM
That's for rangers, toilets, and so on to answer. My guess is that it's bounded by how many people freiland will let us have on site anyway.
Saskia Thu 3 Feb 2022 9:41AM
I personally do not wish to increase the population, at least not in a year where planning yet again starts off in February.
But that's based on my personal preferences. I prefer events with 500-1000 people, am okay with events 1000-2000 people and usually do not attend events with more people than that in general.
I could bring some arguments, but I'd only be mirroring the concerns mentioned by @Cairn (Clément) and others.
But you do you, I am not realizing anything this year and won't have to deal with the fallout of the decision so much. :)
Mareike Thu 3 Feb 2022 9:56AM
I very much resonate with @Cairn (Clément) s statement about growing in quality rather than quantity. I still vote for growth, but slow. going up to 1100-1200 people max. to me feels doable. it would mean all areas can adapt to more people but (hopefully) without being overwhelmed. IF, of course, this makes sense financially and doesn't just mean spending more money on infrastructure.
Just from gate perspective: last year was busy and stressful at times but worked out in the end (besides the fact that many gate&greeting volunteers didn't show up for their shifts). If monkeys were to do gate again, i think we could manage 100-200 more people and still improve gate/greeting. Suddenly adding 50% or more people would require a much bigger "jump" (f.e. introducing a scanning system for tickets, find more space for better queuing, more space for a bigger greeting area, MORE reliable volunteers, a waiting area that is not the monkey camp kitchen, etc. etc.) also considering we might have to do covid testing again (who knows!). It feels too much in a year where a lot is still uncertain.
Let's focus on improving what we started last year.
Veroca R. Sala Fri 4 Feb 2022 8:19AM
Thanks all, I have updated this thread and lowered it down to 10% growth. I leave this discussion open until 7.02.2022 and just then I will make a final poll which will be online for 5 days ( 12.02.2022 ). With this decision in place, tickets can move forward as well as the Korg having some certainly around the size of the event by the date of their next meeting (17.02.22).
Kaliope Fri 4 Feb 2022 12:59PM
Thanks @Veroca R. Sala 👏 We'll check in with the site owners once more about the actual size of the venue this year, if there will be any changes that can potentially affect the number of attendants... I opened a new thread dealing with frequently (un)answered questions for Freiland!
Kaliope Fri 4 Feb 2022 5:55PM
So, the "hard limit" is 1500. However, we should remember that Freiland has a completely different setup...
Poll Created Tue 8 Feb 2022 12:28PM
Do we allow the Kiez Burn population to grow 10% (1210 participants/ tickets) ??? Closed Tue 8 Feb 2022 11:05PM
I hear concerns and comments saying that this poll doesn't reflect what has been discussed and I seem to have missterpeted some feedback in the comments. It is not my inttention to move forward with decisions deliberately.
For that reason I cancel this poll and proposal which i started only with the goal of gaining time and have a decision in place by the time the orga team starts moving the engine and because these AP take time/weeks/ and energy. I only had good intentions. I learned I shouldn't have started the discussion but the korg, plus atm I don't have the time to give this thread the attention it needs.
Thanks for participating anyways ❤️
Do read the proposal and comments on this thread to make your own conclusions, whether it is a good idea to make a slightly bigger event or not. Thank you for taking the time to do so, it really means a lot! 🤗
Results
| Results | Option | % of points | Voters | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
Agree | 46.7% | 7 | |
| Abstain | 0.0% | 0 | ||
| Disagree | 53.3% | 8 | ||
| Undecided | 0% | 35 |
15 of 50 people have participated (30%)
Anonymous
Tue 8 Feb 2022 1:22PM
i hope that all the offerings we make will have more visitors. And that more people will also create more offerings 😍
Kris · Tue 1 Feb 2022 7:54PM
As I've said before I see no evidence that new people are more or less "burnery", "moopy" or "poopy" than repeat offenders. I will continue to believe this until I see actual numbers. Anecdotally I've seen people shine and get it the first time they get exposed to it, and met people who keep coming without getting it.
I am also not afraid of a "bad time" with little art, little participation, or whatever subjective metric that often is applied to this question. Bad trips have lessons to teach, and I am confident that people would come to such an event, feel the pure potential of it, and bring back more s)#t next year.
My recommendation would be to increase to as many tickets as possible while still being considered reasonably safe by all leads that are concerned with such matters (speaking for ticketing, any number is safe). Perhaps, I will concede, those tickets should be biased against single free-campers. (That's my prejudice against free-campers speaking, I imagine them as two dudes from Düsseldorf that's just discovered smoking weed. Start a camp already!)