What to do with leftover dream tokens? - first orientation
!!!VOTING IS LIVE NOW!!!
What are we discussing?
Here we discuss and decide with Kiez Burn Participants what is going to happen with leftover tokens.
Why are we discussing that here?
Because decentralizing the art grants situation and letting the community have a say in what's going to be on the event was the core idea of the dreams platform. Hence they should also have a say in what is going to happen with unspent tokens. This is in line with consensual do-ocracy.
If we're so radically do-ocracy why don't we leave unspent tokens unspent?
- Leaving thousands of euros on the bankaccount of the Verein makes virtually no sense at all and also might come with implication in terms of taxing, finances and Vereinsrecht
- It is in no ones interest that we save up money from tickets that people bought for this year and not use it for the experience ticket holders paid for. There is no force to vote. Not using the money people paid because they have not used their tokens would be punishing the whole community for the non-volunteering of the inactives. This would be a minus-minus situation
- Veto by one Dream Guide. They will not walk up to dreams which did not get funded and tell them 'Well there is money but we decided to not spend it because people did not use dreams enough."
What are leftover tokens?
There are going to be unspent tokens (aka tokens that never got spent in the first place), Tokens that belong to yet unsold tickets (we are basically sold out tho) AND there are going to be 'comeback-tokens' (aka tokens that got assigned to projects which did not hit minimum funding).
How is the decision making process?
- We gathered Ideas with the dream whisperers (done)
- Gathering Ideas from the community (done)
- Getting some input from tech, finances and other positions wether or not they are actually ABLE (tech wise) to work with the ideas presented (semi-done)
Have an anonymous dot voting (In Progress)
Apply the options in their ranked choice outcomes until most tokens are spent (after voting ended)
Important: Some of the options available can be implemented parallel or can be used in conjunction. Also we will most likely run through more than one round of distributing leftover tokens. F.e. the first choice is to fund all public service upgrades up to their minimum funding goal. This will not use up all the art grant. In this case we will then switch to the 2nd favorite option. Another option would be the proposed algorithm which would take care of distributing ALL the tokens
Chances
This is a chance to cancel out biases in the token system. Biases that can be cancelled: Camp bias (camp-based projects have a tendency that camp members spend their tokens on their own camp), Recency and Latency Bias, Bias towards entertainment and away from public service, Bias for big projects which need a lot of funding.
There is a good chance that 30%-50% of tokens will go unspent, especially since this is the first year we are using the Dreams platform. Once we have all the ideas, we we should rank them - as there will probably be several ways to distribute funds before we run out.
Current ideas
The ideas are sorted. They are ranked after dot-voting results among dream guides/whisperers from favorite to least favorite. Options 6 to 8 did not get any votes from dream guides.
- Funding public service upgrades which are within 25% margin of their minimum goal
- Popularity based system - prioritizing projects which have a lot of individual contributers instead of projects with a few generous backers and fund them up until their minimum goal
- Funding dreams which are NOT part of a camp but brought by individuals which are within 20% of their minimum goal
- Priority system within the ranking system -> e.g., projects are ranked on priority of lowest % needed to meet the minimum funding. E.g., projects with smallest % to meet their minimum get prioritized over those with larger percentage
- Funding dreams which are within 10% margin of their minimum goal to get them the minimum funding.
- Randomly distributing leftover tokens** to ALL projects which are not fully funded
- Randomly distributing leftover tokens** to all projects which have **not yet met their minimum funding goa
- Funding projects that have already met their minimum, but could be even better with more funding
Some Ressources & Links
Borderland Post Refarding Redistribution Decisions made there 2018
Saskia Fri 26 Apr 2019 5:23PM
@quentinfeugere - there was a poll yesterday and there was a decision to postpone deadline for voting until the 5th. Letting it go much longer is not possible due to the fact that, at some point, all dreamers must be informed about wether and if yes, how much they get funded. They need to start building stuff quickly, after all!
Karlo Walz Fri 26 Apr 2019 7:26PM
Saskia this is your assumption only but this is not what i think if realisation if a dream. if a dream is not in dull covered you have to think about alternative ways for funding. Independent if 10% or 50% or 90% is covered. minimum hhreshold is just a nice idea but not a funding. No dream would complsin if they finally get more then they could expect today.
I see this as folliws: If you really redistribute tokens with any algorthm starting from 10% and distribute 90% zhen this dream election was a complete disaster.
no excuse!!
Deleted User Fri 26 Apr 2019 8:34PM
@karlowalz this is common concept of accountability and transparency, as a dreamer you ask for money and you promise to deliver a gift. In order to make community be able to make a choice you need to communicate what do you need and for what. Minimum goal is very important, it is a mean of communication, the least amount of resources you need to make your dream happen. You can always set it pretty high, but then it is a game, if the community wont give it to you your dream is not going to happen at all. These are the rules of the game, and they are simple and very fair to all participants (at least I see now big loopholes).
Frankly i dont understand your point if you need more money for the dream set the minimum higher, you can do it any time without re approving your dream..
Karlo Walz Fri 26 Apr 2019 9:28PM
"promise to deliver a gift.", NO, THAT IS NOT TRUE.
This is not a contract.. this is an intension.. a wish.. whatever..
it is a dream.. bur reality is something else..
If I create a dream which will cost 500 Euro.. and my fellow burners tokens me only 200 .. then. I am not forced to provide 300 out of my own pocket.. just because I set minium to 200. That is just the beginning of the game.. which means I need to think about if I really wanna do it or not..
Even if you finally get 100% of all requested token does not mean that someone is forced to do anything.. maybe he changed his mind.. and will not do anything and that is fine too at least if he tells the KBORG.
The point is that we do not offer a dream and beg for support!
We offer some art.. and it would be nice if our fellow burners might at least wishes that the dream comes true..and at least spend their tokens.
If my fellow burners think that spending tokens is too much work and they want to spend their time with sitting in the sun and making selfies all who wanted to contribute might re-think if gifting something which is unwanted is really a good thing.
What I would like to tell you is . that at the end of a dream someome sit and do have emotions.. and re-distributed tokens are useless..
Deleted User Sat 27 Apr 2019 4:58AM
Absolutely true, 100% with you here.
Well, yeah, redistributing token is like jerking off :)
Saskia Mon 29 Apr 2019 9:31PM
@vladimireske - I would like to bring the voting online.
I will link to your comment LINK as an answering-option. I hope that works.
If you do not want the answer option in the poll to be a link, can you please provide me with a short (2 lines?) anwering option to sum it up?
I plan to bring the vote online tomorrow by 2pm .
Karlo Walz Thu 25 Apr 2019 8:35PM
I do not like an algorithm! Every alg is wrong and unfair and intransparent.
if you really wanna redistribute then we should nominate 5 people and they get the chance to grant 100 tokens
Deleted User Thu 25 Apr 2019 9:13PM
Old wizardy way :), not sure about it - too much pressure on the five chosen ones and the ones who will select them, unless you have a list already.
Bobschi Tue 30 Apr 2019 11:30AM
Not sure if joking or serious.
Deleted User · Fri 26 Apr 2019 3:34PM
Agree on expert score, but @karlowalz had a partly valid argument that 20% votes might not be enough to approximate people choice, plus some things are more critical than others. I would put this option on the table to make a smoother transition from no financed projects to amazing event.