2021 Budget Redistribution (Passed)

D Diarmaid Public Seen by 80

This is the discussion. To vote in the poll click here:

When the voting on Dreams ends, there will be money left over in the budget that has to be redistributed to dreams. This money will exist both because the LNT grant was not applied, and not every ticket holder will spend their tokens.

The current proposal for redistribution is as follows:

  • All dreams which have reached their minimum budget are funded, and all stretch goals which have been voted for are funded

  • Dreams are ranked on the percentage of their minimum budget that the community has voted on.

  • All remaining budget is put into a big pot, and the first dream (i.e. the highest percentage that the community voted on) is funded up to the minimum budget.

  • The remaining money is then applied to the next dream, and this step is repeated till we run out of money

It was brought up that this was unfair to some dreamers. Some dreamers might not know that they can change their minimum budget, or might not know that by doing so they could get funded. So a secondary proposal was made:

  • Ignore minimum budgets completely

  • Once voting ends, we take the money that has been distributed and treat it as tokens

  • We revalue these so that we have spent the entire budget. We cap dreams at their maximum budget, with the unused tokens being reallocated in the pool.

  • We then tell each dream what their budget recieved is. We ask them if they want to continue with the dream, knowing that they will only get this much funding.

  • A HARD deadline is set on this, and dreamers who do not respond do not get funded. Length of the deadline to be determined.

  • Once we know which dreams agree to go ahead, we take the tokens from the dreams which have been cancelled, and we distribute these to the dreams which have not been cancelled. Each dream would then receive some extra amount of funding.

PROPOSAL: That we change the budget redistribution from the previous model to the new model.

Note: A dream is only eligible for its minimum budget until we get the actual permit, which looks like it might not happen till the 20th of July. If we do switch, how will this be handled? This restriction no longer applies


CJ Yetman
Sun 25 Jul 2021 5:35PM

Since our Dream is adjacent to our camp, we were planning on powering it out of our camp’s power budget. Can we also now pay for our power through our dream budget? Would also save us time with receipts and all that.


Fri 23 Jul 2021 7:42PM

The whole situation with paid power for three only sound camps we have at kiezburn is ridiculous. I wish we could have an explicit power art grant field in the ticketing process.

We have to talk about it as a community if this is what we want, ppl make sound camps for our pleasure and have to source an extreme amount of extra cash to pay for electricity on top of it.

Concerning the proposal, sure, it is ok to redirect a quarter of the dream budget to pay for electricity :D


Fri 23 Jul 2021 3:09PM

Despite we don't have commerce during the event I like the idea of making a bit of an internal ecconomy with our energy production and let's see if this can help with a more efficient energy usage in general for the entire event. Like Sim City!


Fri 23 Jul 2021 1:25PM

Yes, as the Underworld has a good point and we should take it as ´learn and improve´ example for the next years.


Fri 23 Jul 2021 11:25AM

nubicuculia likes this! in our last estimate we had like 5kw needed. this might change if we order more lights. do we get the fund for our initial proposal or for what we actually will order?

(nice idea to have less paperwork tbh!!!)


Fri 23 Jul 2021 10:46AM

I am a tiny tiny little bit annoyed by our lack of integrity and following through with our own rules. BUT I am mostly here to enable our participants to make nice things, and if it is power they need, and it makes things easier for all parties included, I am all for it. <3


Fri 23 Jul 2021 9:19AM

Less work is good :)


Poll Created Fri 23 Jul 2021 9:19AM

Allow dreams to fund extra power Closed Mon 26 Jul 2021 9:00AM

We banned some dreams from funding all of their power with the arts budget (e.g. Ease of Air, Nubicuculia). to reiterate the original reasoning:

  • Funding the power needs equated to an invisible grant of \~2000€ being given to approx 3 different dreams.

  • Allowing the dreams to put power in their budget would make dreams impossible to fund, given how the voting and redistribution would have happened

  • As such, we said that the power needs would have to be raised from the community instead of coming from the dreams budget, and could be put in as an additional cost

Since then, we have changed the way that the distribution of funds has happened to the above method. As such, the concern about dreams not being fundable is no longer relevant, and there is no longer any reason not to allow dreamers to use their grant money to fund the power generation.

A proposal has been made to allow Underworld to fund the power from their dream from the arts grant. Given power costs will take more than the entire arts grant budget for Underworld, this will in essence mean that there is less work for them (as they do not have to worry about reciepts), less work for us (as we don't have to worry about reciepts) and I think it is overall a good idea.

Allowing it from Underworld would also mean allowing it from the other dreams where we banned them from funding power.

The dreams that this will effect are Ease of Air, Live Music and More from Musotopia, and Nubicuculia. Each of these dreams would now be able to spend their budget on the extra power needs. All other dreams are getting their power needs covered by us already.

@Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) @Kiki As the guides, you are directly effected here. What do you think?


Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 100.0% 12 CY ME K V A A D R AK S E S
Abstain 0.0% 0  
Disagree 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 36 VRS A A MG K P NF MK L J DK MO L A MJ V S P TM K

12 of 48 people have voted (25%)


Diarmaid Mon 5 Jul 2021 9:30PM


Diarmaid Thu 1 Jul 2021 9:44AM

Technically no, but if you send me an email with the address that you used to buy your ticket, and a list of dreams that you would like to fund, I can apply them manually before we calculate the budgets.


Vlnolam Thu 1 Jul 2021 9:42AM

I live in a timezone which has 12h delay from Berlin. Can I give tokens even if I was verpeilt until now? (Actually, I was working too much)


Melinda Gonzalez Wed 30 Jun 2021 11:20AM

Thank you for reporting this issue!


Diarmaid Wed 30 Jun 2021 11:09AM

Fixed. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.


CJ Yetman Wed 30 Jun 2021 11:06AM



lizzyp Wed 30 Jun 2021 11:03AM

Hey guys! Unfortunatelly it is not possible anymore to give away TOKENS for the was working until 12AM but not anymore, although it stands, that it will be possible until MIDNIGHT. Who is in charge for the site? Possible to change it until midnight or is it over now?

Greetings :o) Lizzy


Diarmaid Wed 30 Jun 2021 9:40AM

From Finance:

"The permit won't come through into the 22nd July at the earliest. Dreamers can't wait that long.

We need to confirm them on the 4th, and lock it in."

This increases the risk to Kiez Burn if the event ends up being cancelled. But waiting till we get a permit will half the time that dreamers have to make their dreams while knowing their full budget.

We are committed if at all possible to funding everything that we have said that we will fund.

Item removed


Diarmaid Wed 30 Jun 2021 9:35AM



Purzel Wed 30 Jun 2021 9:33AM

Thank you for this further explanation, I didn't fully get the one, attached to the proposal. Maybe you could include it in the vote description?


Diarmaid Wed 30 Jun 2021 9:26AM

Current Rules: Modifying your budget to decrease the minimum to the amount you have recieved would mean that you would get the amount people voted to give you, but no more. Increasing it would mean that you would either get more (in the case you get funded), or you would get nothing (in the case that you were not funded).

New Rules: Modifying your budget has no effect. You would get told the amount that you would get, then you can decide whether to go ahead with the dream. If you decide to go ahead with the dream, you get the amount you were told. If other dreams drop out, then you would also get a percentage of their budget. You will in general get the option to have more money than people voted to give you, but you are not going to get your minimum budget if people did not vote to give it to you.

E.G. You are 50% minimum funded, and for simplicity, you have a minimum budget of 100 Euro and a maximum of 200 Euro. So you have recieved 50 Euro in votes.

Old rules: If we have the budget, we would fully fund you. You would get 100 Euro (your minimum budget). If we do not have the budget (i.e. there are dreams which have a higher % funded) then you would get nothing.

New Rules:
We would recalculate the token value, and calculate the budget that you got. If 60% of people vote, each vote become worth 1.8 votes, then your recalculated budget is now 83 Eur. We would ask you if it is possible to do the dream with 83 Euro. If you say yes, you are guarenteed that 83 euro, with the possibility of getting some more money if other dreams drop out. But as your minimum budget was 100, it could be that you can't do the dream because you need that extra money. If that is the case, the dream is cancelled and the money is redistributed amoung all uncancelled dreams which have decided to go ahead.

Old Rules: More dreamers would get their minimum budget, but more dreamers would get nothing.

New Rules: All dreamers get the chance for something, but bigger projects which get a lot of votes (but not enough for minimum funding) will not get topped up to the minimum.


CJ Yetman Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:56AM

As a dreamer, can you advise whether I should...
1. modify my budget so that the minimum is already met today before midnight when the voting closes to guarantee that I get some funding, even if it's not as much as we wanted?
2. or, should I increase my budget today before midnight when the voting closes so that when dreams get funded anyway regardless of their minimum I'll get even more money than we originally asked for?
I'm a bit confused at this point at the consequences of these decisions.


Alex Kaos Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:36AM

Well done Dreams Team on trying to make a swift pivot in a challenging situation.

I think this proposal is good, as the gamification of manipulating the minimum budget in the original plan would have meant that those that changed their minimum would have lost out, and those that didn't care/weren't able to pay attention will end up getting more money. I personally prefer to see active participants acknowledged for their efforts to bring their dreams to Kiez Burn.

Also, in this model, we are simply amplifying the intended desire of the voters. With an expected 50% engagement, we are keeping the decision of 'who get's the money' to the voters and not in the token redistribution process, or an unclear minimum budget limit.

A note to Dreamers. No matter which option we would have chosen, some would have lost and some would have gained. This is only the second time we have fully run the Dreams platform at Kiez Burn, we are on a new version of the platform, and the dreams team was completely new this year. On top of that, the Covid situation has delayed planning and confirmations for months, so the dreams team has been working incredibly hard to ensure as many of you get the support we all want you to have.



Melinda Gonzalez Wed 30 Jun 2021 7:43AM

Yes! Absolutely!! On the other hand, some Dreamers knew they could change their minimum budgets and some didn’t, meaning some could work the old system (and are actively doing so) to ensure that their minimum budget would be reached no matter what. Dream guides perceive the new system is fairer but, yes, it’s different and people will complain. We did spend many, many hours discussing this and we hope it will encourage everyone to vote for Dreams they like.


CJ Yetman Wed 30 Jun 2021 7:14AM

Setting aside any opinion on which option is better for the moment... don't you think that making a dramatic change like this at this point after voting has already started and is almost complete opens yourself and the dream guides up to a bunch of nasty critique from disgruntled dreamers about why you made this change etc., whereas if you just leave things as they are/were you can at least wash your hands of responsibility and say "hey, that's just the way it is/has been, don't blame me"?


Otto Wed 30 Jun 2021 6:50AM

Love the proposal!


Diarmaid Wed 30 Jun 2021 7:49AM

Really like that video. Very clear explanation of how things were proposed


Veroca R. Sala Tue 29 Jun 2021 10:08PM

Hi Thanks for opening a discussion ( old discussion on kiez burn, how to be fair with dreams), I first want to thank you for all your work to try to make this process fair! you are awesome and we are so glad to have you❤️


Are we gathering input to make a decision? Who do we need input from? Tags@?

When is the deadline to reach a decision?

References (context)

here is how was done in 2019 <<<< useful shit from Waldo! (distribution of tokens),

There is a video link very promising


Diarmaid Tue 29 Jun 2021 9:36PM

1) The rule about the minimum budget is their for a good reason. That means that this has to be passed by Finance before any emails are sent out.
2) This will mean that dreams will have money applied towards their stretch goals. This is a different treatment of the unvoted on money, and could mean that dreams which would otherwise have been funded will no longer get their minimum budget, and that could mean that the dream is no longer feasable.
3) This is more complicated and puts more work on the dream guides, do we have the capacity to actually do this? I know that I am a little burnt out after the past week.
4) All dreams will have a chance to use some funding - so there will be no dreams that go to Kiezburn which don't get at least their votes
5) The full budget that each dream will get will only be know later, when the dreams have dropped out.


Diarmaid Tue 29 Jun 2021 9:38PM

Thats what I meant actually, not every ticket holder will spend their tokens.


Bee Tue 29 Jun 2021 9:35PM

'This money will exist both because the LNT grant was not applied, and not everybody was funded.'
- Also a contributing factor: not everyone who bought a ticket has spent their tokens. (& Historically there were always left over tokens from ticket holders who didn't engage with the Dreams platform).

Seems like a lot of work for you to implement this second proposal, but I appreciate your commitment to making things as fair as you can. I would be interested to hear some of the Dreamers input as they will be most affected.