Will Kiez Burn happen in a New Location in 2022?

I went with Owl a number of years ago to the site where freqs of nature and Würzeln Festival have had history at a former airfield in NIedergörsdorf/Altes Lager. A complication with the overall site is that there are several stakeholders dividing it up who don't exactly see eye to eye with each other. Sound familiar with respect to Freiland? Still, the site is enormous and the various hosts feature various larger scale gatherings in their yearly program. There was apparently some idea to do some 70k person rave there, but I can't find links to the press releases for it.

I had an idea, should something be possible to do there, and call it Mark. One reason for the Mark of Brandenburg. Another because we could have so much fun playing with the word mark. Participants could be called Markists. X marks the spot. Feel the vibrations with Marky Mark. whatever. Instead of referring to a year, each gather would be called Mark I, Mark II, etc.

Depending on what section we'd use, there would be no features. No trees, no hills, no lakes. Sound familiar to a different regional? Attached is a sketch I started to map out one usage possibility. I think the streets were all about 10m wide and the camp sections 50m between the radial streets. I'm not an architect, nor an urban planner, but maybe this or some variation would work. I think I drew this so that the hang gliders could continue their fun on the runway. Perhaps a variation would have us populate either side of the runway. Whatever, there is space. Space to be stupid, space to be loud, space to be quiet, space to stare at clouds.

I can say for sure that I will not have the time to commit to core planning, but if some of you like the idea, run with it. Set up some Kramps. Make a radical kakaphony.

Option one : Kultur Kosmos e.v ( Fusion Festival Location ) perfect // loud space for BIG art & Bigger fires : contact mail@fusion-festival.de

Second one in Poland Lios lab

An actual desert : Błędów Desert

6 hours from Berlin // not that far than Gerlach

https://www.lios.io/

https://m.facebook.com/lioslabs/

Check the picture an actual desert / fire allowed , i have some fast track contacts also ( Berlin Based Crew )

I agree that this should be a separate thread (oh if only Talk had a way) - but I want to challenge the truism that new people are unburnery or a challenge to our “way of life” or some such thing. They are a gift. Those who show up create the event, it’s our responsibility as frame makers to clearly communicate expectations and consequences for not meeting them, and we’re not doing a super good job of it.

Also yes let’s do tickets differently 💖

While I wasn't at this year's KB, I wouldnt make judgments about overall potential participant conduct without weighing what happens when a bunch of hippies get released out of a global lockdown.

The event needs to be able to grow because capacity will be dwarfed by demand. Ticketing could be tinkered to create kiez cliques, which might be fine for those in them, but another event will then probably emerge

Fusion is probably reluctant to have another festival on the same grounds unless they have a significant say in how it is run.

Have there ever been events at the desert? It seems like the kind of place that Poland might like to keep as a nature preserve.

@Randy Pence maybe this current discussion interests you. My understanding is that we should decide if we want to grow and then see location possibilities.

A big part of Freiland is no longer available for us as it is now reserved to preserve nature. In this location will not be possible to host an event with more than 1000 participants. Also, growing in size will mean a whole lot of new bureaucratic paperwork and permits that we have no experience with...not saying this is impossible, just something to consider in the timeline.

Thanks for moving the talk over to Talk! And as has already been discussed – the range of music is not something that would be determined by a central orga. If the community is missing something, it has to come from the community as a contribution and as a gift! Rather we can think about allocating space for sound camps and possibly slots for sound acts more centrally next time. (Someone will need to take care of this in advance and come forward with a proposal, otherwise it will be resolved again through the usual location/camp realizer/sound leads process.)

One more important thing: When choosing a location, it's important to consider the infrastructure and relationships that are already in place. We currently have our storage right near Freiland, something new would have to be found if we switch our venue (not to mention moving all the stuff to another barn). Also, we know the area well and already have good relationships with the owner, the neighbors and the Amt/local office. Thanks to our new sound concept, there were no official complaints about loud music this year – compared to 2019! (I doubt there are that many places in Germany where we wouldn't have to deal with neighbors...) There are already some composting toilets and running water in place... tl;dr It is not only the possibility for more radical self-expression that is crucial in the decision-making process 😉

PS Fully agree with the points raised so far that we don't want to/can't grow so fast. Many people find the current location with its great scenic diversity wonderful. (Personal disclaimer: For me, smaller events are at the same time the nicer ones – more intimate and cosy.) And yes, it's about quality and not quantity – selling more tickets (especially because of our proximity to Berlin and the relatively low ticket price) will not automatically lead to having more art and a better variety!

Won’t somebody please think of the storage?

While id love to find a new location that supports more of what we wish for, i will just gently remind people we have storage and new location will require storage… and also commitment to moving all of our shit to a new location. What will this look like? Large trucks? Who drives the trucks? Individual camps sort themselves? This is a multi day commitment with months of pre-planning. Who pays for this? It could be thousands of euros. Ohmergerdddd

Please consider raising ticket prices next year in support of this monstrous mission, which is something all camps must commit to… and what of the ones that don’t?

As a camp lead, i dont even want to think of this.

Sounds like a sunk cost fallacy to hold the event hostage by the proximity to the storage of things which get used once a year.

What could happen is that another burn gets organized, because there isn't enough capacity for the demand at freiland, a different location offers more flexibility, etc and after a year or two, enough of the org and significant camps decide to join the other, because eco toilets and water are not that difficult to come by in germany and kiez burn implodes. At least you will still have your storage and the event will be as small as you like it.