talk.kiezburn.org
Thu 27 Feb 2020 12:58AM

[Help needed] Prove we are ARTsy to Finanzamt

KBE Kiez Burn e.V. Board Public Seen by 160

The purpose of our Verein is the promotion of art and culture. The Kiez Burn event is one of the primary ways we pursue this. If we can prove this, we only have to pay 7% taxes, not 19% taxes. The fewer taxes we need to pay, the more we can spend on art & culture.

2019

We would like to ask for your help. Who would feel inspired to make a digital & short-ish summary of 2019 that can be printed & shown to the "Finanzamt" of how we have promoted art & culture?

Some sources:

Ideally we have this overview/summary in German, but English would also help (we could see to translate it later).

2020

For 2020, we would again like to have an easy overview of the different cultural and artistic events taking place (such as the program/booklet). This does not need to be printed, but it is important that it is made, so we have a case to make.

Ideally, we make our culture & art case as we move forward.

O

Owl Tue 31 Mar 2020 11:19AM

A bit more tips from the LARPers: There's an article somewhere about whether the Burning Man passes for a larp because it has so many similar approaches. The basic approach of the lawsuit is that we're looking at a new form of improvisational theater where the actors are actors and audience at the same time. Master thesis "Is Larp Theater" by Carl-David Habbe, which is answered with yes. Hence art, hence 7% VAT. ("Da gibt es irgendwo einen Artikel darüber, ob das Burning Man auch als Larp durchgeht, weil es so viele ähnliche Ansätze hat. Der Grundansatz der Klage ist, dass wir auf eine neue Form des Improvisationstheaters abstellen, bei der die Akteure Schauspieler und Zuschauer zugleich sind. Masterarbeit "Ist Larp Theater" von Carl-David Habbe, die mit ja beantwortet ist. Daher Kunst, daher 7% USt.").
I'll try to find the mentioned article.

AK

Alex Kaos Tue 31 Mar 2020 5:07PM

Very cool. Yes send me the article if you can find it, I just messaged our steuerberater with what you shared here, hopefully he is responsive and knows something of what we speak.

JS

Jeff Spirlock Sun 5 Apr 2020 11:04AM

I don't know how hiring attorneys work (for example if they offer free consultations or not, nor am I aware of how the bill) in Germany but if it is possible to schedule a free consultation appointment with the attorneys that handle any of those events that could be helpful. Dependent on their fee a paid consultation or adding them to the budget to have a Verein experienced attorney that is currently getting other events the 7% tax could really be helpful in gaining knowledge on what is needed to qualify for that 7%. Meaning maybe Kiez Burn has already followed the proper guidelines and we just need to document it in a specific way. And those documents may not be hard for a professional to create. I'm going to begin my research on these individual groups and events to gain further clarity of what we may do to reap similar tax status.

AK

Alex Kaos Mon 2 Mar 2020 2:34PM

If we had that we wouldn't need the program to prove what we do.
I think what we need is some way to show that what we do is a cultural event. Specifically that our event is not music orientated, but that the Art Projects are a key element of the experience, and effectively the primary reason that participants buy a ticket.

One thing that could work would be:
"Look what we had at Kiez Burn 2019" - Highlighting the performance and art projects as the main attractions of the event. A small booklet or newsletter/email could suffice, or a page on the website.

This could also/alternatively be an 'export' from the Dreams Platform 2019, with description and pictures. It might be a good idea to filter this to the more Art and Performance orientated projects, but might not need to. It's hard to say before we are sat in discussion with the Investigating officer. That will be on the 1st April, which is our hard deadline.

O

Owl Mon 2 Mar 2020 3:00PM

I think that would be a good start. Maybe we could talk to the more "classic" artists in our community to set up "Letter of intents" for their (or their work's) apperance at Kiez Burn, combined with professional resumes)? Do we know how restricted the tax officers cataloge of art forms is?

JS

Jeff Spirlock Mon 2 Mar 2020 4:24PM

Can you post a link to the official Finanzamt information regarding this?

If I don't use my business bank account to make purchases and file the receipts with my tax return the IRS (similar to Finanzamt I'm guessing) doesn't really care. This isn't for Germany but it sounds pretty similar to what Kiez is facing.

In your opinion is this even possible to do this year? Or would this be something to work towards next year? Time management matters.

Is it common in Germany for a festival to be a non-profit business? Or am I misunderstanding what a Verein is? I know they exist but is that the majority of festivals?

In the US a non-profit organization is something worth having a tax person who is experienced in this specialty. My business was a non-profit that specialized in circus and fire performance.

I know this event isn't in the US but the bureaucracy is quite similar.

W

walto Sun 1 Mar 2020 6:28PM

The briefing we got from our Tax advisor was to make a content summary for the Finanzamt of the art, performances, theater,... that happened at Kiez Burn 2019. We'd be very thankful if someone would want to take on this task :)

O

Owl Mon 9 Mar 2020 10:48AM

Hi Jeff,

thanks for your step forward. I like the description of your culture that you wrote. But I'm a bit unsure if it would convince the tax office. The approch to sell them our culture is probably less effective since German bureaucracy normally doesn't try to embrace things and concepts which are new to them, but they usually just check if what they see fits in what they already know (and have comparisons for). So from my sight it could be easier understandable for them how what we do fits into classical categories with artistic approach, like: painting, sculpture, theater, life music concerts, DJs creating new music by mixing. We could also try to collect as many names and bios of participants which work as professional artists (since we can't show paid contracts).
One guideline we have which is known to the tax office is the mission statement of the verein . I think the better we can fit whats happening at Kiez Burn into these purposes, the better:

Purpose of the association is the promotion of art and culture. The purpose of the statutes is realized in particular by:

  • Organization of artistic events such as exhibitions, performances,
    Concerts, self-experience or artist workshops

  • Granting of grants and grants for the preparation, presentation, presentation, storage and conservation of works of art or projects of literature, music and other cultural expressions, regardless of whether they are material or digital. The scholarships are open to the public, tenders and procurement directives are appropriately published.

  • Hire or operate workshops, studios, events and showrooms and depots, maintenance of art collections.

  • Organization of information events, publications and corresponding Internet activity.

  • Training, instruction and exchange of experiences of artists, musicians, cultural workers and interested people.

  • Establishing contacts with other artists, musicians, artists and artists
    Communities of same.

We from the Berlin Burner e.V. board (with a similiar mission statement) will have a meeting with our own tax advisor next week to discuss our like-wise challenges. Maybe we can get more tips and ideas from that. I'll report.

O

Owl Sun 1 Mar 2020 5:39PM

Maybe. It could also be that we could get an recommendation letter (which might need to be translated for the Finanzamt). But it could as well be that this would be also irrelevant.

W

walto Sun 1 Mar 2020 4:44PM

It is completely irrelevant if we are an official burn or not, for the Finanzamt.

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