talk.kiezburn.org
Thu 27 Feb 2020 12:58AM

[Help needed] Prove we are ARTsy to Finanzamt

KBE Kiez Burn e.V. Board Public Seen by 160

The purpose of our Verein is the promotion of art and culture. The Kiez Burn event is one of the primary ways we pursue this. If we can prove this, we only have to pay 7% taxes, not 19% taxes. The fewer taxes we need to pay, the more we can spend on art & culture.

2019

We would like to ask for your help. Who would feel inspired to make a digital & short-ish summary of 2019 that can be printed & shown to the "Finanzamt" of how we have promoted art & culture?

Some sources:

Ideally we have this overview/summary in German, but English would also help (we could see to translate it later).

2020

For 2020, we would again like to have an easy overview of the different cultural and artistic events taking place (such as the program/booklet). This does not need to be printed, but it is important that it is made, so we have a case to make.

Ideally, we make our culture & art case as we move forward.

JS

Jeff Spirlock Mon 2 Mar 2020 7:17AM

I'm interested in helping I was just waiting on feedback so I could better formulate my approach. My German is mediocre though so I would need someone to translate the final product as translator apps often aren't the best with grammar and phrasing.

AK

Alex Kaos Mon 2 Mar 2020 9:59AM

Thanks Jeff, that's very kind.

Unfortunately I think the Finanzamt don't want a conceptual writing, but more a program of what was actually held at the event. They really don't care that much at what most of us call Art, and have very strict regulations in what defines art (generally performance orientated, installations and other art is actually a grey area. They expect 'professional artists' to be paid by invoice to justify this cleanly).

They really don't give 2 craps on our relation to burning Man. And actually highlighting that point would likely be detrimental to this cause based on the probability that our tax officer has most certainly not been to burning Man, and will call it a festival (also another reason that the definition used for the event (festival/burn) will unlikely prove any useful results with them).

Just to clarify, they're actually quite nice at the Finanzamt mostly, but they have a book that defines what all of this means.

AK

Alex Kaos Mon 2 Mar 2020 10:01AM

Actually it is. But what's more relevant is that we pay artists by invoice. Not that is big and fancy ;)

W

walto Mon 2 Mar 2020 10:24AM

@Alexxx what is your advice then if you say that performances, installations and other art is grey area and we actually need invoices paid to professional artists?

W

walto Mon 2 Mar 2020 5:14PM

There is no real documentation from the Finanzamt unfortunately.

We only got the briefing from our tax advisor that we need a written summary of the artistic and cultural things that happened at the event. He will then see if that will qualify. So the "task" as I see it, is to filter the dreams and workshop booklet for the more artistic or cultural events or installations or perfoances etc. Then put that into a Google doc. That Google doc can then be presented to our tax advisor.

I am not sure where the receipt thing is coming from. That wasn't part of the what we heard from our tax advisor. Alex would need to give info on that and from my point of view, should not be part of the 2019 briefing.

JS

Jeff Spirlock Thu 12 Mar 2020 10:01AM

I don't think what I made will convince them. I was really hoping this book the Finanzamt has outlining the tax guidelines was available online so I could understand it from their viewpoint. I'm not currently in Germany otherwise I would go to the office in person to try and read the official guidelines. From a cultural standpoint I did not find any similar festivals that were a Verein when I did an online search. There are specific aspects of Kiez Burn that may be comparable to festivals getting a 7% tax. Yoga and wellness festival for example. I know there aren't invoices from last year but maybe someone could create something similar outlining the distribution of funds to individual projects. I agree that having a background of the specific artist behind a Dream would be good information to include. I appreciate the additional information.

AK

Alex Kaos Sun 22 Mar 2020 7:33PM

Thanks for all the work Jeff, it's good to see someoen helping out on this topic.

As Holger said, the finanzamt are quite traditional and prefer their classifications relative to concepts they are aware of. For more info, here is the official Tax Document for German taxes in the cases of 7% VAT
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ustg_1980/__4.html

When it comes to art, they are quite specific about performance art (specifically theater), art gallaries are mentioned, and all other forms of art have a giant question mark above them it seems.

I've spoken with the Tax Advisor again, and he thinks it is highly unlkely that we will get the 7% calssification, but I will take your words (translated) and a slightly filtered copy of the sheet with the Dreams on it for them to review. The tax office will be reviewing all the refunds, so they have as good an overview of our outgoings as anyone tbh.

If you can think of anyone who's experienced these things before, or has some experience in these matters, it might be good to still reach out and ask their advice. We're asking everyone at the moment!

Thanks again for your help!

O

Owl Sun 22 Mar 2020 7:42PM

Hi Alex, we had during the week a phone call with our tax consultant. In the case of the Berlin Burner e.V. the tax strategy is a bit different since we are a non-profit. The tax consultant wants to go with the strategy that all of the income is for the "idealistic" realm to keep away tax discussions. If that wouldn't work he was expecting a 7% tax applied (and than we have to hold against that all 19% bills). Unfortunately he didn't laid out the argumentation he would use for the tax agency, but I'll contact him again if he can send it to me.

AK

Alex Kaos Sat 28 Mar 2020 11:55AM

Excellent Holger, thank you so much for chiming in here.
I will be meeting with the Steuerberater soon to discuss how to move forward, but he is simply not confident that our case will pass with the Fianzamt. Still, it would be lovely to have your written explanation if possible, please send it to me as soon as you have it. MFG

JS

Jeff Spirlock Mon 30 Mar 2020 6:14PM

It took me a couple weeks to wrap my head around the reality of my situation. I'll start looking into this further. I appreciate the additional information.

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