Tue 13 Jun 2023 3:21PM

We have too much money for Dreams and Art. HELP!

BRI B r i Public Seen by 63

TL;DR at the bottom.


Me, and the Rest of Dreams team

@person @otherperson

Proposer’s role:

Dream Guide

The advice process

  • Advice Process ending date: 27.June.23

Information gathered before posting


People/roles most affected by this proposal

  • Dreams

  • Art

  • Dream guides

People/roles with the most knowledge and experience relevant to this proposal:

  • Unknown

The proposal


Dream and Art originally had gotten 31k€+1k€ reserve for power = 32k€. Voting results left 9~8 dreams not being funded.

A few days after voting, we were informed that our budget would actually be 36k total (35k€+1€for power= yay). Resulting in All Dreams being Funded 358€ left from the 35k€, and after Sven did his calculation, 644€ left from power reserve to be used for funding Dreams ≈1k€left from Dreams.

What are the problems with this? Because our first round (32k€) was 6k more then last year, we were originally:

- Shortly under budget.

-Then word got out, which took us over budget.

-Then, after the extra 4k, under budget again. But after voting.

So some Dreamers:

-Dared to ask for More money in the beginning. Leaving Dreams 6k€ over budget.

-Then ask for Less, either out of strategic reasons for voting, or to help get more dreams funded by not taking a big piece of the budget pie, or both. Leaving Dreams ~3k€ over budget.


Some Dreamers are asking for more money because we have 1k€ left

How do we split it fairly?

Are there any assumptions in your proposal? No

The proposal

There are a few ways to go about this and please Clearly vote or give alternative options to vote on.

  1. Democratic. We announce another round of voting on cobudget, for the just the extra 1k. Same rules as before, anyone can enter, and anyone can ask for and upgrade.

  2. FCFS basis. We announce the extra budget and have a first-come-first-served form where anyone (under the relevant rules of dreams manual) can ask for funding for any project, or more/upgrade funding for their current project.

  3. A Lottery format. As per once proposed by BurningBee on Discord link. We can try out this funky experiment and either cap entries to 200€ max or just run the lotto until the cash pool is empty.

  4. Keep the money and use it for other infrastructure e.i. the Kitchen Tent since "Production does not have any extra tent to be used for Event kitchen" and they might need to rent.

  5. Divide the money evenly as per their % in the budget (Dream A is 5% of the Dreams budget and receives 5% of 1k€). Any Dream can forfeit their extra allowance which is then added to the divided pool.

How would the proposal be implemented


Who would implement this proposal

I or anyone willing in the Dreams teams can take on the extra dreams and/or the form and Lotto.

Communicors with communicating.

When would this proposal be implemented

Tuesday 27.June.23

What would be the cost (time, money, effort, etc.) of this proposal

More time and effort from the Dreams team, and not really an extra financial cost.

What are the advantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)

How does your proposal relate to the Kiez Burn principles?

Per proposal:

  1. It's more democratic as it has been so far.

  2. I dunno really, it's less hard then doing another cobudget. It gets closer to an Art committee?

  3. Potentially (and according to the Lottery studies) radical Inclusion. Also less hard then doing another cobudget... And I Like it.

  4. There is more money for infra. and/other KB stuff

  5. The Most fair

What are the disadvantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)

Per proposal:

  1. Have to do another cobudget round.

  2. The really engaged get to ask first.

  3. Experimental, new, less known outcome.

  4. The budget was meant for Dreams and Art.

  5. It will be another kind of hassle to ask every dream if they could use an extra % of budget. Engage every Dream guide. Dreamers (some) tend to not answer promptly, and it could take up to a month to get an outcome.


We have 1k€ left for Dreams, Vote on a proposal from The proposal paragraph


Taking Chiara's comment as a basis. And that Kaylin said now "For next year we would most certainly need a new tent, this year we hope to make on of the smaller ones still work"

I made a form to apply for funding or upgrading of a dream.


Deadline to submit is the 19.07


Poll Created Tue 13 Jun 2023 3:28PM

The Poll Closed Mon 26 Jun 2023 10:00PM

Pls Vote


Results Option % of points Voters
6. What Chiara proposed under (look at the comment) 30.8% 8 JH MG C S C P C PM
4. Money for infra, but taken from Dreams and Art 26.9% 7 I C RM G AK B P
3. Lottery, but Experimental. 15.4% 4 S A J BRI
2. FCFS, but FCFS 11.5% 3 S T S
5. Divide money evenly, but takes some extra people power. 3.8% 1 K
I don't care 3.8% 1 OK
Give the money to Kris 3.8% 1 K
Dream Guides decide 3.8% 1 W
1. Democratic, but cobudget 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 53 JT F VRS A SD MK K K BRI MG MK A DU BDB C J D R K A

26 of 79 people have participated (32%)


Ancka Tue 13 Jun 2023 3:28PM

3. Lottery, but Experimental.

It seems right


Melinda Gonzalez Wed 14 Jun 2023 6:58AM

6. What Chiara proposed under (look at the comment)

I think this is the fairest option that doesn't require an inordinate amount of extra work.


Sirilena Fri 16 Jun 2023 8:23PM

@Melinda Gonzalez I voted and THEN I read what Chiara suggested... 🙄


Jaina Hirai Tue 13 Jun 2023 3:28PM

6. What Chiara proposed under (look at the comment)

I am a Dream Guide and have little desire to run a second round, but I do think Chiara's solution make the most sense and is fair. It's also pretty close to First Come First Served, but I do think we need to make this decision quickly so that Dreamers can actually USE the extra budget.


Alex Kaos Tue 13 Jun 2023 3:28PM

4. Money for infra, but taken from Dreams and Art

Considering that the reason this proposal is being put forward is because a Dream is asking for additional funding for a tent, I would argue that the investment should go to the volunteers contributing to making the event run. Also, the Dream Guides have done lots and lots of work, and adding workload to those volunteers so a camp can lower their fee doesn't seem so fair to me personally. Plus when I was in the same predicament (2018) tents were not allowed on the Dreams platform 🤓


Kitt Tue 13 Jun 2023 3:28PM

5. Divide money evenly, but takes some extra people power.

I do honestly wish we could just make a call based on individual requests either now or post burn and hope we have systems in place to do that in the future. Both the late-term extra money and dreamers not putting the full cost amount down in their application have created this work.

Let's say each dream gets some even share, unless their budget does not change to reflect it. They don't have to forefit it, it passes on if they don't ask for it.


Sirilena Fri 16 Jun 2023 8:21PM

2. FCFS, but FCFS

It's less work - it's not a crazy amount of money!


Bee Tue 13 Jun 2023 3:28PM

4. Money for infra, but taken from Dreams and Art

Would love to request a (bigger/base) budget for the Site Leads this year, if some of that could come from Dreams I would selfishly take it. Also like the lottery concept but can't vote for two things I think.


walto Tue 13 Jun 2023 3:28PM

Dream Guides decide

The Dream guides as a group should get together and make a decision based on their group wisdom.

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