What do we do with some of the leftover Money?

AK Alex Kaos Public Seen by 75

Hello Lovely Burners,

So we have some exciting news. It turns out that due to some weird circumstances, accompanied with a slightly conservative Finance Lead, there is some funds available after Kiez Burn that can be re-allocated back into the community.

I would like to invite a team of people to help shape the method and function of this redistribution process. Do we want to do this over Talk with lots of community interaction? Or perhaps re-iterate the Dreams Platform for another quick run before next years shinanigans?

Come and make it a reality. First things first, a date to meet. If you can't make the date then your digital input beforehand/during is still massively valuable! The main goal is to brainstorm together certain conditions, methods and ideas on how to go about the process, as well as to engage more people on a more personal level.
The aim isn't to exclude all those that can't physically attend, but to create a more distributed focal point and increase engagement in the process.

CAUTION: These funds would need to fit with our Vereinszweck (Association Purpose) - "Die förderung von Kunst und Kulture" (Supporting and promoting art and culture). Suggestions that fall drastically outside of this statement will likely have a harder time getting approval. (and just to inform, it is the Finanzamt you have to convince, not me, on whether a project is Art or not. Feel free to give them a call and ask their definitions... and good luck..)

ALSO: We will require all payments to be made before the end of the year (ideally before the end of November), which means so will all of the purchases.

UPDATE - The Burner Embassy Funding would be separate from this cash pool. This is an opportunity to support groups, individuals and projects within our community outside of the blatantly obvious providing a home for our community.

Thank you kindly for reading this.

(Disclaimer, we don't have the exact figure yet, as the finances are not yet finalized. But it could well be of massive support to many artists/projects running here in Berlin).


Poll Created Fri 27 Sep 2019 10:01AM

Who could make a first meeting and when? Closed Fri 4 Oct 2019 5:00PM

by Alex Kaos Sun 6 Oct 2019 9:10AM

Thank you for those who are eager to help organize and maintain a process for an fund-redistribution.

The final figure has still not been finalized, and there is a possibility that some of the funds will be re-invested into the event next year (as we have a date/location issue at this point in time). But it would be lovely to brainstorm potential systems for redistribution with those that can attend.

Please note, this meeting and further discussions are advisory in nature, and set as a starting point for further engagement with the whole community.

ANOTHER POINT: Kiez Burn has already agreed to support the Burner Embassy through a separate fund. That is being taken care of, and operates separately from this potential pool.

We would like to sit down and see who is interested in engagin this discussion. How do we go about fairly, reliably and openlly re-investing Dream funds back into the community? Another key point is the time scale, ideally this funding should be spent and refunded before the end of the year.

Let me know when you might be free, although this poll is advisory in nature and not legally binding :hugging:


Mon  7 Oct 2019  5:00PM
Tue  8 Oct 2019  5:00PM
Wed  9 Oct 2019  5:00PM
Thu 10 Oct 2019  5:00PM

9 of 91 people have voted (9%)


[deactivated account] Fri 27 Sep 2019 11:17AM

Great initiative! Idea: I would rather have this deliberation and decision happen here on Loomio - for documentation and transparency reasons. The Borderland has awesome Advice Processes - check it out here >>>


[deactivated account] Fri 27 Sep 2019 11:18AM

Mon 7 Oct 2019 5:00PM
Tue 8 Oct 2019 5:00PM
Wed 9 Oct 2019 5:00PM
Thu 10 Oct 2019 5:00PM

Great initiative! @alexxx Idea: I would rather have this deliberation and decision happen here on Loomio - for documentation and transparency reasons. The Borderland has awesome Advice Processes - check it out here >>>


Jaina Hirai Fri 27 Sep 2019 1:12PM

Due to my work schedule i cannot attend a physical meeting (unless it’s on a weekday morning which doesn’t work for most) so would also prefer that we discuss the redistribution on Talk. Is there enough money to refund Dreams that went over budget and still have a sizable chunk remaining? How about a big purchase of power tools or a giant circus tent or something we could use at Kiez Burn for years to come?


Karlo Walz Fri 27 Sep 2019 10:49AM

Hi, ich hatte nach den langen Diskussionen beim Kiezburn letztlich keine Lust mehr das Funding mir auszahlen zu lassen, insofern hab ich auch dazu beigetragen mit den zwei dreams dass was übriggeblieben ist, also ein klein wenig..
ich würde mir dafür wünschen dass Kiezburn die Berlin Burner Embassy unterstützt und wir dort in den Raum was schönes einbauen können. Für mich wäre das die beste Verwendung und es wäre weiterhin "für Art" und für die "Community".


Alex Kaos Fri 27 Sep 2019 12:01PM

It was agreed some funds would be put aside for such a space separate from this project. I am not fully up-to-date, and so this comment may be invalid, but I understand the burner Embassy has rejected the offer of financial support from Kiez Burn. But this needs to be reviewed.


Owl Fri 27 Sep 2019 1:10PM

Hi Alex, I don't know about a rejection. We still have to find out how the different groups can play together in this. I've sent the project proposal to Kiez Burn e.V., Berlin Burner e.V. and German Burners e.V., but still waiting on feedback (from all of them :-) ). On behalf of donations Kiez Burn e.V. has a disadvantage that it has to pay taxes on collected money and can't give out donation receipts (because of not being non-profit). Since people with taxable income can get 50% of their donations back with the tax declaration for up to 1600€, it might make a difference for some of them. Besides that challenge all support is welcome, and maybe we'll find a working procedure idea today at the Open House event.


Henrik 🤖 Mon 30 Sep 2019 8:04AM

Just to clear things off (even though this is offtopic): The "rejection" happened to the idea of borrowing money from Kiez Burn eV. The new idea is to donate a smaller sum. Final decision will be made on Thursday.


Alex Kaos Mon 30 Sep 2019 8:48AM

Cool, thanks for clearing that up. My apologies for spreading rumors on Talk.
Kiez Burn can still donate to Berlin Burners e.V though, as it is a Geminutzig, which would be the intention.
We all intend on using the space, and I (personally) would be eager to see collaboration on investment in time, energy and physical resources. Thanks Holger


Randy Pence Fri 27 Sep 2019 12:02PM

I agree to either give it to the Embassy project or to apply it towards decom at anomalie, even if it just means making tickets a lil cheaper for everyone


Randy Pence Fri 27 Sep 2019 12:04PM

Just read that the association with anomalie has been terminated, so scratch that


[deactivated account] Fri 27 Sep 2019 12:57PM

Great! All hail conservative finance lead! It's nice to think of having some leftovers going into fostering community. Would love to see this go towards Burner Embassy (why would they reject us?) or into KiezBurn e.V funding - - or anything else - sustainable. I would not want this to go into Decom. p.s. @alexxx Idea: I would rather have this deliberation and decision happen here on Loomio - for documentation and transparency reasons. The Borderland has awesome Advice Processes - check it out here >>>


[deactivated account] Fri 27 Sep 2019 1:14PM

edit: have read Holger's comment now on tax complications - makes sense - plus can see from other threads now there is a discussion that need to be had on wanted/unwanted Burning Man (TM) associations of Kiez Burn....


Alex Kaos Mon 30 Sep 2019 8:55AM

The Burner Embassy funding will be a separate conversation this this one. This pool is intended as a more distributed funding opportunity.


Till Tailor Fri 27 Sep 2019 1:28PM

Give Money to the Burner Embassy.... All of us, will profit from this... <3


Alex Kaos Mon 30 Sep 2019 8:55AM

The Burner Embassy funding will be a separate conversation this this one. This pool is intended as a more distributed funding opportunity.


Electric Lazy Sat 28 Sep 2019 6:30AM

Save it for early grants next year. Building art is extremely challenging when your funding is the hope of reimbursement. Getting funds early goes a long way to building bigger better art. Just my personal thoughts from bringing art to burns around the world for the last decade.


Alex Kaos Mon 30 Sep 2019 8:50AM

Just to clarify a point. The reason I would suggest spending it this year is that anything we save we lose roughly 20% on at the end of the year due to income and corporate tax. That means if we (theoretically) had 5k to put towards next year, we immediately lose 1000€. (please not the theoretical statement in previous sentence).


Electric Lazy Mon 30 Sep 2019 9:44AM

I get it. But there is still plenty of time left this year to start a preseason grant round. Surely there are artists in the community that have reliably produced in the past. Jump starting a major endeavor over the winter could not only bring the community together for a project build throughout the year, it would help create lasting build relationships, and some kick as art. If there is one thing I've learned in my 15 years of burning, is that it is far more important for the community to build together than to just burn/party together. Seems like a good opportunity to invest in the building part.


Alex Kaos Mon 30 Sep 2019 11:35AM

That is exactly the sort of suggestion that makes sense with this funds.
Now how do we actually do it, and make sure that the artists have spent their funds by the end of the year? That's what the meeting will be in line with.


Erin Jeavons-Fellows Sat 28 Sep 2019 10:37AM

I fly out to Australia that week so I cant make any of these meetings :cry:
Love all the ideas so far. love the ideas of giving extra funding to dreams to get a bit bigger such as youniverse also.
We could all co-create and build kiezBurns first Art Car :laughing:


Alex Kaos Mon 30 Sep 2019 8:56AM

Love the idea. My intention is not to make the decision behind closed doors. Just to figure out how to better distribute and gather ideas for that.


Quentin Sun 29 Sep 2019 11:42AM

Some ideas
1. Would be great to contribute to the Burner embassy, a place for all of us.
2. Ideally, if we could also support the different initiatives coming from the community throughout the year, that would be great (events, art projects, social contribution,..)
3. Keeping some of this budget for Dreams happening at Kiez Burn 2020. I believe that's good to have a financial buffer for supporting dreams for next year.(No guarantee of such a huge income as last year B&B events.)

I also really support the idea of making the deliberation and especially the decision process, online.


Alex Kaos Mon 30 Sep 2019 8:58AM

The Burner Embassy funding will be a separate conversation this this one. This pool is intended as a more distributed funding opportunity.

The meeting is to establish the best way in which we can engage the hwole community in the discussion. I believe one of Talk's shortcomings is when you want to have more than 20 or 30 active voices in a discussion. It just gets swamped and most people can't keep up.


Ashley DuPree Sun 29 Sep 2019 8:05PM

Hi there, some of you know me, but for those who don't, hi, I'm Ashley. I'm a bit new to the KB community. I'm also working on bringing a small festival to Berlin called Figment. It's a one day, free, inclusive, participatory arts festival that was started in NYC 13 years ago by burners, and now happens in multiple cities around the world. If there's extra money that needs to be put back into the community we could definitely put it to good use. Here's some more info