talk.kiezburn.org
Thu 2 May 2019 4:13PM

Tracking towards better understanding

W walto Public Seen by 36

I would like to propose we track the usage of the different online tools in a GDPR-conform way in one tool we trust won’t misuse the data.
The key argument to track better, is to understand how to facilitate more online participation in the co-creation process.

Why track

Overarching goals:

  • improve the online tools we use (website, Dreams, Talk, Realities, emails)

  • Increase the relevance of these tools to the community, particularly for new people

  • Motivate people to take action to publicize information from Talk, Realities,… via different channels

More concrete data specs:

  • better understand how we can best engage people.
    Examples: Is Facebook indeed the best way to publicize what is happening on Talk? Should we send more emails to inform people about what is happening?

  • What do people do on these platforms? How do they navigate? Which posts are checked a lot?

  • What are new people most interested in? How do they find their way to participate online? We have trouble engaging new people, so how can we do that then?

Which Tool?

First proposal

Agreed solution: Matomo

On Surveys

Some suggested we do not need to track, but can rely on surveys. I would challenge this because of two reasons:

  • just asking the people that are involved gives a very skewed picture. It is the same issue we have with a lot of things: we just end up asking the same people over and over, staying in a bubble. It usually is about engaging the people that are not very involved.

  • In addition, it is a lot more work to distill learnings about how to engage newer people with content through interviews or surveys vs. just looking at a summary of how ppl landed on the website, Talk or Realities. to be honest: won't be done.

K

Kris
Disagree
Sat 18 Jan 2020 3:11PM

There are so many better tools that don't send everyone's data to the colorful advertising giant

For example https://usefathom.com/

KW

Karlo Walz
Disagree
Sat 18 Jan 2020 4:17PM

I don‘t see any use why we should have this google tracking done. I do have a lot of google analytics experience and this us useful if you do have in full visitors which are not kniwn or knowable. I think thus is not the case, therefor no use!
In addition you need to nominate a „ Datenschutzbeauftragten“ und müsst eine Wiederspruchsmöglichkeit einräumen, gegen tracking etc... logischerweise wird batürlich jeder einzeln getrackt, metadaten ohne Ende etc..

H

Henrik 🤖
Disagree
Sat 18 Jan 2020 5:28PM

YES to tracking
NO to Google Analytics

I believe we should be driving the alternative-tech culture by using open source tools, although it might be a bit trickier to setup and read.

We're also trying to move away from facebook and we're using open source software. Using GA for a community with the values that we stand for is a step backwards.

S

Stephan
Disagree
Sun 19 Jan 2020 10:21PM

🤯🙈

B

Bobschi
Block
Sun 19 Jan 2020 10:37PM

As long as Google is on this proposal it should not go through. I also think you want tracking, you should specify what questions you want to answer and exactly what you need to track to answer them. Just blanket track everything via GA is lazy and does more harm than good

M

monarchin
Disagree
Sun 19 Jan 2020 10:47PM

Aside from me not liking any data shared... why is this of relevance? To the first question: You couldn't stop inviting poeple via all the usual channels anyway because radical inclusion. To the second one: There is so much stuff to read through for every burn, i really don't see what it would matter to me that i have one button to make my log in easier or so. As long as the info has some sensible order to it people should be able to navigate.

KB

Klaus Botschen
Disagree
Mon 20 Jan 2020 9:17AM

As burner, I would never stop people doing things that I consider bad. But still, my advice is against tracking, as not tracking is a democratic base principle. For the love or humans I would not track.

W

walto Sat 18 Jan 2020 5:09PM

Thanks for all the comments folks! So the reason why I propose to track better, is because I feel that we do a lot to try to get (new) ppl engaged with our content, especially Talk & Realities, but we do not have a clear visibility on how that actually works (email, facebook, notifications,...?).

The solutions on surveys etc. don't really work:
* just asking the people that are involved gives a very skewed picture. It is the same issue we have with a lot of things: we just end up asking the same people over and over, staying in a bubble. It usually is about engaging the people that are not very involved.
* In addition, it is a lot more work to distill learnings about how to engage newer people with content through interviews or surveys vs. just looking at a summary of how ppl landed on the website, Talk or Realities. to be honest: won't be done.

The reality is more that if we decide not to track, that we just keep shooting in the dark on how to engage (new) people with the content. We all try hard, but it would be nice to know if newsletters work better than facebook or google search or Loomio emails or ... It could inform our actions better and motivate more to do so.

Given the many concerns about Google (although I personally don't get why this is an issue), happy to look at tracking alternatives. So we currently have suggested:
- https://usefathom.com/
- matomo (where we track the website & the dreams platform)

W

Poll Created Tue 21 Jan 2020 12:33PM

Track via Matomo - open source + anonymized Closed Thu 23 Jan 2020 12:00PM

Outcome
by walto Thu 23 Jan 2020 11:48PM

The conclusion seems to be that there is a general consensus that Matomo is the right tracking solution for us. Further discussion in the thread. Feel free to continue contributing, your input is appreciated.

Next steps:
- setup Matomo to anonymize the data (Waldo)
- remove Google Analytics from the website (Waldo)
- implement Matomo on Talk (@abelstobias )
- implement Matomo on Realities (unknown)
- formulate a proposal on who gets access to Matomo (unkown)

I would like to propose we track using Matomo, because:
* 100% data ownership
* open source
* No tracking of personal data
* we do not need a Datenschutzerklärung notice to agree to given that we anonymize the data

Why track?

= To understand how to facilitate more online participation in the co-creation process.
By:
* improving the online tools we use (website, Dreams, Talk, Realities, emails)
* Increasing the relevance of these tools to the community, particularly for new people
* Motivating people to involve the community more with the information from Talk, Realities,… via different channels.

More info on surveys & more specifics regarding what data would be useful, is in the thread.

Next steps

When we get a general ok from the experts & people affected, we will roll it out on Loomio 2.0, correct it’s implementation on Dreams & disable Google Analytics on our website.

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 66.7% 6 C DU ZD T AK W
Abstain 22.2% 2 RS DR
Disagree 11.1% 1 KW
Block 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 12 K T EM CV K CML K JW S RH S H

9 of 21 people have participated (42%)

KW

Karlo Walz
Disagree
Wed 22 Jan 2020 11:18AM

I am against tracking! I do not see why at all we need tracking and the arguments I can read are in no way valid. passive usage of a talk wensite is of no importance for any project but only active membership and for tjis you can count comments by day.
emais you can count in the same way.
website you get the number of usage from your host.
user tracking also finally needs a „datenschutzerklärung“ and a „datenschutzbeauftragten“ for every tool you are using.

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