Do we want our burn to be international?
This year's tickets will be available through our own ticketing system, and not through www.burnertickets.com.
I am assuming that because of that, we will lose quite a bit of international exposure. Less people from abroad, and in general also less people that have not heard of Kiezburn yet, will not have an easy way to discover that Kiezburn exists at all.
What would be possibilities to let the international burner community know about Kiezburn?
Poll Created Thu 30 Jan 2020 10:28PM
Should Kiezburn be international? Closed Sat 29 Feb 2020 6:00PM
|Results||Option||% of points||Voters|
||Yes, that would be good||75.0%||6||DG D DU P D|
||No, it doesn't matter||25.0%||2||KW M|
|Undecided||0%||251||DU J SE N L C JT T L GE RH J CD J NP JP|
8 of 259 people have voted (3%)
Karlo Walz Wed 12 Feb 2020 7:14AM
International is not a value of its own..
Radical inclusion is that we already post a lot on website, in FB Discussion groups, European Leadership Meetings..
David Fri 31 Jan 2020 2:18PM
Would be interesting to compare the census with other regional burns. To me though Kiezburn seemed like an extremely local burn of mostly Berlin residents.
I'm not saying that that's a bad thing, especially from the environmental side of travelling it's good, but my question is, if that's intentional. Because if not, I think that we might be losing out bigtime on diversity. Most obvious to me was the small number of attendants from other European countries, especially neighbour countries (Poland, Czech Republic, France,...) compared to the number of attendants that are Berlin residents.
Callum Macdonald Thu 30 Jan 2020 11:51PM
@David I'm not sure I follow the logic that we'll lose international people. Arguably taking credit card payments would be easier for international visitors. But maybe I'm missing your argument, would be happy to better understanding your thinking.
Matt Fri 31 Jan 2020 9:52AM
The question, as worded, is entirely specious. There is no answer possible to reflect the belief that it is entirely possible for one to “want” for Kiez “to be international”, and indeed that it’s possible for Kiez to actually “be international”, irrespective of the choice of site and web software used to sell tickets. There is zero correlation between these things. Most people get to the selling site (whatever it might be) by following the link on Kiez’s own site, rather than by going shopping for random Burns that may or may not be on Burnertickets. Indeed, many European Burns aren’t on it.
David Fri 31 Jan 2020 2:09PM
Matt kind of understood my point. Which is:
I do think that some people learn first about Kiezburn on www.burnertickets.com. This year, they won't. Are we taking any measures to promote Kiezburn in the wider international burner community to make up for this loss? If we don't, we might have less international first-time visitors of Kiezburn coming in.
Saskia Fri 31 Jan 2020 6:05PM
Maybe this is a note for the next census? 'How did you get to know about Kiez Burn?'
Because my assumption is that it was mostly word of mouth + our Berlin based pre & decompression, as the majority of attendees came from Berlin or has lived in Berlin (aka most likely they have a social network here). Anyways, it would be super interesting to hear how many participating people have heard about Kiez Burn via Burner Ticket.
Then again: You said 'some' heard about this via burner tickets. You did not claim it was the majority.
In this case I would say it is a valid question but the solution to this could be in many more strategies than just 'sticking with burnertickets'.
One option would be that the communicorns try and make some effort to spread the world in known networks online.
meowmeow Sat 1 Feb 2020 4:56PM
I find this question to be related to marketing rather than if it identifies with being “international”.
Matt Sun 2 Feb 2020 9:58PM
I’d add this: Kiez has well reached that stage in the lifecycle of a burn where it no longer struggles to sell all tickets/memberships/whatever. Last year the event sold out several months before, and in the last weeks the desperation for a ticket in the secondary ticket market was palpable. I expect this year will be “worse” (as it were; one might well call this “better”). By comparison, Borderland was last year at the stage where I expect Kiez will be this year: exactly everyone who wanted a membership during the official sale week got one, and there were less than 100 to get rid of in a secondary sale only a few weeks later. This year Borderland is severely oversubscribed and there will be a lot of unhappy people.
All this to say... marketing? Is this really necessary? Marketing is what Tomorrowland does — or whoever. For a burn like this, who needs to know, knows. And if they don’t but need to know, they can find out easily, without any “marketing”.
(PS: I just googled “Burning Man regionals Europe” — a fairly broad search phrase. I found all I needed in the top three results.)
Meghan Sun 2 Feb 2020 1:38PM
I personally don't see any value in actively encouraging people to fly here from far away to attend kiez burn. I really like the idea of local burns as a potentially more environmentally sustainable alternative to the habit of flying around the world to find fun parties. I can totally understand why people might want to travel here from far away for kiez burn, but actively seeking to promote that seems like a negative thing.
Matt Sun 2 Feb 2020 1:55PM
Assuming that “international = flying” is a substantially incorrect assumption. I’ve done three Kiezes by train from London and my Europa Spezial round trip ticket cost as much as my taxis from and to Demmin. How about we organise a shuttle from Demmin? Now, that would be a real problem in search of a real solution — rather than discussing how international the event shouldn’t be, which is a non-problem in search of no solution.
[deactivated account] Thu 13 Feb 2020 7:31PM
@Matt please share tips on that Europa Spezial! Trains for president!
Jan Thomas Tue 4 Feb 2020 7:44AM
@David from managing the ticket sales over the past years, and having looked at the analytics - i would say that it's probably well under 5% of our population that have come via burnertickets. the vast majority has found out via word of mouth, and engages via the facebook group and newsletter. In the first year we didn't use burnertickets, yet we also had a similarly international attendence as in the following years.
So yes, totally agree that Kiezburn should be international - but I'm convinced that the decision about which ticketing system we use will have no impact on this.
walto Wed 5 Feb 2020 9:47AM
The census was brought up ( @David or @Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) ) ? Anybody interested to take on that Need & Responsibility this year? It is up and available on Realities: https://realities.kiezburn.org/c5581b44-84a3-4736-afaf-738d5af86cf7
Feel free to take it, background on Realities: https://talk.kiezburn.org/d/YvcK0ygi/inclusive-effective-volunteering-realities-set-up
Saskia Wed 5 Feb 2020 8:47PM
Absolutley considering to take this on! I'll let everybody know in realities once I make a decision :)
Keegan Thu 13 Feb 2020 7:17PM
Yeah I don’t think being on burner tickets makes a difference at all. Most of the other 9 burns I’m involved with all use quicket (aburner made software) which is just a great software but all are more international (in terms of traveling to, Berlin is unique with so many out of towners living there). Another important point is that it is only in its 4th? year which is still super young. The word spreads by word of mouth.
There is pretty much no marketing for burns and the best way to promote it is to actually probably share details of it in the bigger burn grumps/euro burn groups.
Also whats probably 10x better than burner tickets is to get listed on the burning man regionals page.
I do do not believe kiez burn has any issues worth worrying about, espically since the tickets will sell out even earlier this year
ps how I found out about it was my friend telling me at another burn and sneaking in a last minute ticket (and now your stuck with me)
Remy Schneider · Thu 30 Jan 2020 11:23PM
The results of the census are here: https://kiezburn.org/kiez-burn-2019-recap-census-results/
Not sure if you have seen them yet - but essentially it shows that Kiez Burners come (reportedly) last year from 40 nationalities (lots living in Berlin) and flew in from more than 10 different countries (including as far away as New Zealand). Just curious a little more of what you mean by "international", what do you mean by "let the community know" (e.g., what actions are these), and what do you see as the perceived benefits?
Additionally, there are representatives from Kiez Burn who have attended the Burning Man European Leadership Summit the last several years - so from a "burner" perspective, there are lots of people who already know?