talk.kiezburn.org
Sun 30 Jan 2022 9:05PM

(Closed)Do we want to grow the Kiez Burn population in 2022?

VRS Veroca R. Sala Public Seen by 48

Update: proposal is cancelled reasons are in the outcome of the poll at the bottom

this discussion will be open until 7.02.2022 and just then I will make a final poll which will be online for 5 days ( 12.02.2022 ). With this decision in place, tickets can move forward as well as the Korg having some certainly around the size of the event by the date of their next meeting (17.02.22)


Hi all, I am Vero. Second-year in the Board of the e.V, Korg 2021.

On this thread, I propose AND I seek advice to decide if we want more Kiez burners on the playa or if we are okay with the small villa.

Deadline 12th of February 2022

Information gathered before posting

I have taken into consideration some previous discussions around Kiez Burn population growth, to now open it again and decide whether we want to have another 1100 people event this year, or if we want to grow.

  • On this thread we discussed tickets prices, Kiez Burn popularity, freecampers cap and how can we approach more organic growth.

[Open Discussion] On popularity, organic growth, virgins, and inclusivity

  • I have also taken the results of the census 2021

Census Calculations

( I've got to say I am surprised to see a 34% of new burners, since the last time I checked the results were 22% )

  • I have been present at the Kiez Burn retrospective in 2021 and have taken into consideration the challenges in 2021 in regards to LNT and strike, while we seem to have some lessons learned there.

Retrospective Session - notes

People/roles most affected by this proposal or and with most acknowledge

We dont have all 2022 realizers so Im tagging those who are currently involved and those who I remember their handles, but of course, im open to hear new perspectives.

@Kris (tickets lead)

@Cairn (Clément) (2021 site management)

@CJ Yetman (Korg lead)

@Diarmaid (Dreams lead)

@Jan-Christian Kaspareit

@Cris

@Caro T

@Mareike

@Saskia

@Owl (Holger)

@Professor Kaos

@Franzi

@kathleen ( Finance realizer and Shatzmeisterin)

@Jan Thomas

The proposal

Background

  • This will be the 5th Kiez Burn event in history.

  • Since 2019, we have been planning a 1000-1100 participants event. While I am aware that we all as a community need to put in work to grow in a healthy and organic way, I believe it would possibly be a positive turn of events if we had more participants, therefore more tickets and liquidity to have more art on the playa (btw tickets price could be raised on a 20% - 30% not in this discussion).

  • It is my wish to make dreamers feel Kiez Burn welcomes their projects instead of the contrary. I believe that by having more population, and more money for art, in combination with a good tickets sales strategy that will somehow keep us away from the first come first served and, a cool art funding tool as it has been semi thought through and shared on this thread (Rethinking Dreams) we could have a very sweet burn. 🤗

The proposal

My proposal is to grow Kiez Burn population on a 25% ( off an 1100 participants cap we already had in place since the last advice process. In 2021 we had 1000 participants which had to do with pandemic restrictions)

After collecting input from those who participated in this thread, I reconsider my previous proposal and suggest a 10% growth.

We seem to feel more on the safe side when growing in small bits, giving time and space to community members to gain experience and participate more, in addition to all concerns in regards to site planning. Having a cap on 1200 participants seems to be reasonable.

What are the advantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)

As I see it, we could expand the community, welcome new inhabitants.

What are the disadvantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)

will be all a disaster? who knows!!!

Open questions

  • Will the site be too crowded? - Need input from site management

    Answer to this question on this comment https://talk.kiezburn.org/d/reyAcw4o/do-we-want-to-grow-the-kiez-burn-population-in-2022-/8

  • will we have to pay for extra toilets? what is the capacity cap for Freiland?

    Freiland gave us some numbers for their permit application in 2020 (1300 attendants planned). In terms of requirements most numbers stayed the same (security, medical service) – apart from more sanitary facilities (25 toilets, 10 Urinals – in 2021 we had ca. 20). With 1500 attendants, numbers can be higher and we'll have to check with the Amt...

Decision


CY

CJ Yetman Mon 31 Jan 2022 9:53AM

Maybe the Site Liaisons can remind us what legal conditions change when we go over a certain number of people? I thought if we go over 1000 people there are significant additional things we have to do/pay for?

PAK

Paul aka Khromo Mon 31 Jan 2022 10:46AM

I remember vaguely Holger mentioning insurance, but I can't remember specifically what he said. I think it was that once you went over 1000 people, the price went up and not on a per capita basis? Could be wrong.

K

Kaliope Mon 31 Jan 2022 1:14PM

Freiland gave us some numbers for their permit application in 2020 (1300 attendants planned). In terms of requirements most numbers stayed the same (security, medical service) – apart from more sanitary facilities (25 toilets, 10 Urinals – in 2021 we had ca. 20). With 1500 attendants, numbers can be higher and we'll have to check with the Amt...

AK

Alex Kaos Mon 31 Jan 2022 8:17PM

It's not a huge jump if I recall correctly. It's more gradual than that. We were paying first aid for up to 1500 people easily. Security I don't think changes much at that level, toilets goes up gradually. Insurance jumps up a bit, but it's probably not that big a factor to consider. To make it financially worthwhile it would be better to jump 20% than 10% I expect though.

PAK

Paul aka Khromo Mon 31 Jan 2022 10:48AM

I think it's more quality and variety that needs to be addressed here, espeically if there were LNT issues last year.
My experience is that up to 1500-2000 is the point where it's difficult to find people again and some people prefer more intimate burns than larger.
20% seems to be a good target though.
Another thought - what was the actual attendence last year? As in, if 1000 memberships were sold, how many actually checked in?

Item removed

PAK

Paul aka Khromo Mon 31 Jan 2022 10:56AM

Also - I was just looking at the census - it doesn't seem to have been a very representative sample - hoe many people responded?

VRS

Veroca R. Sala Mon 31 Jan 2022 3:21PM

199 participants have answered the census.

AK

Alex Kaos Wed 2 Feb 2022 10:46AM

I'm curious as to what data you are basing this statement on? How can anyone know what is truly representative without actually doing the census (study) in the first place?

I mean we all have our gut feelings and anecdotal experiences, I certainly have mine. But that's why we have data and science, is to overcome the limitations of such methodologies of assumed truth.

PAK

Paul aka Khromo Wed 2 Feb 2022 6:04PM

The amount of times 2.6 or 5.4, 7.8 and 10.6 show up in the first few graphs. There seemed to be a pattern there. Also, the fact that it was never mentioned how many people the census was based on.
It also seemed that only one person outside of the 25-45 age range attended.

Load More