How do we organise parking? When are cars allowed onsite? How to handle the backdoor gate?
Saskia Wed 16 May 2018 9:29AM
the argument of Kinder Kiez was that most of their camp members come with camper vans and their school kids. They already take the kids off from school for two school days when they come by thursday and cannot make it earlier.
They will be missing a big chunk of their camp, obviously, if they are not allowed on side on thursday. But I guess they can also point that out in the form you're offering?
Thilo Wed 16 May 2018 9:39AM
yeah... good point. I guess we can allow people to enter the site with cars even after the event started. New rule: no driving after your car is parked. If we have the manpower we can send a gate hippie or a ranger to go with them.
Hanna-Maija (Animal) Wed 16 May 2018 9:49AM
Sounds good. Maybe we can say in general the cars need to be there before the gate opens but we can give later camper van arrival permits in special cases, they need to however apply for it (in the registration form)?
Hanna-Maija (Animal) Wed 16 May 2018 11:22AM
I am not sure... Maybe just saying no entering with cars after Wednesday noon but if you have a problem with this contact us. Then at least we have some control over it?
Thilo Wed 16 May 2018 11:34AM
I can also reach out to people who say they#ll come on/after wednesday
Thilo Wed 16 May 2018 9:27AM
Hey there. Here is a little form for registering cars & campers on site: https://goo.gl/forms/pWz8yaxx6Q4kFw2l1
Daniel Regev Wed 16 May 2018 2:10PM
My request would be to make sure all the lists&info are transferred to Wonderers Leads and Site Leads. Thanks!
Hanna-Maija (Animal) Wed 16 May 2018 9:50AM
Thank you Thilo! I will try and have a look at this later today. xx
Thilo Wed 16 May 2018 4:15PM
forget about it. people seem to want Gate to stay out of things regarding car & camper permits. We just need the info who we need to let in at one point.
Kathleen Stoeckel Wed 16 May 2018 6:46PM
Nonono, please don’t get me wrong! I’d be super happy if you guys take care of this! We have enough other stuff to organize. Just want to make sure I don’t tell wrong things to people who email to email@example.com
Thilo Wed 16 May 2018 7:07PM
No worries Kathleen. Kieze just didn't want Gate to give out the permits. Fair enough, they should have all the info who is coming with a camper or delivering stuff anyway. So we as gate don't need to do it. We'll just execute what they & production give us.
walto Wed 16 May 2018 8:55PM
Who would be giving out the permits if gate doesn't do it?
I have not been involved in that convo, but hope gate could still do it
Pauline Wed 16 May 2018 11:43AM
Thanks guys for the comments: I have reached out to the families and have asked them for a more precise time. The idea was also to bundle the late comers (2 VANs, everyone else will be on site already Tuesday) so we would have to go through the procedure only once. I see how this could open the doors to all sorts of people driving through the sites so we'll work on a detailed plan that everyone is happy with.
Kathleen Stoeckel Wed 16 May 2018 12:18PM
Hello hello... just to be properly aligned. I'm being approached by burners asking for camper van permits. Last year, it was Transport's job to take care of that - is Gate going to do that this year? If so, great - just let me know and I will redirect the people approaching me to the Google Form above? Thank you
Hanna-Maija (Animal) Wed 16 May 2018 12:49PM
Hey Kathleen! We can co-operate! Don't redirect people to the form just yet - we are still working on it. Also, free free to check it out and leave feedback :)
Saskia Wed 16 May 2018 12:51PM
@hannamaijahelvi - can propose to seperate the 'how to organize the parking lot' topic from the ' "campervans after Wed1200" in another thread?
Hanna-Maija (Animal) Wed 16 May 2018 7:06PM
Changed the name of this conversation to Vehicles Onsite. Will create a new one about the actual parking
CJ Yetman Wed 16 May 2018 8:55PM
Folks... my intention is/was not to take this decision away from Gate or anybody here. I welcome and appreciate all of your opinions. I only wanted to point out that Wanderers and Site Leads should have some input because they are the ones that will have to receive and escort moving vehicles through the site during the event, which is a substantial burden. I would like to hear from them how realistic they think that will be, how frequently they could handle that, whether that will require them to get even more volunteers on board, etc. Daniel asked me to settle a section of the Safety & Emergency Protocol that deals with this, so I'd like to hear a range of opinions from everyone that would be affected by a decision about this.
Thilo Fri 18 May 2018 9:16AM
I have the feeling that we are about about to completely micromanage a rather simple issue. Let's see how many cars we have to deal with and when (step one: collect applications asap), then talk to wonderers and other involved parties if we can handle it (step two: let's talk about it) and then go from there. Either hand out permissions (step three) or reject some applications or find volunteers to help with managing cars on site.
But lets get the ball rolling here... discussing everything with everybody and pre-solving potential problems that we don't even know for sure we'll have doesn't sound very efficient to me and makes planning for everybody complicated.
CJ Yetman Fri 18 May 2018 9:20AM
That's fine by me as long as it's clear in the "application" process that there's no guarantee so we don't end up pissing people off (which is likely to happen anyway). Waldo's proposal was to have one time after event start when we would allow/deal with it.
CJ Yetman Fri 18 May 2018 9:29AM
Mothership meeting is on June 10th, when the Safety & Emergency Protocols document is meant to be completed and discussed. Can we set the deadline of the application to a few days before that so I have time to complete my part? Do we also agree then that there's no possibility to bring a vehicle on-site during the event unless an application is submitted before that time?
walto Wed 16 May 2018 8:59PM
I really like the previous suggestion someone made:
1. cars allowed on site until wednesday 12:00. All non-sleeping or non-art cars gone from site thereafter
2. No entry of cars after this point, with the exception of (1) when people applied to enter after that time and have a permit for this AND (2) only campervans or art cars AND (3) one dedicated time for such an action, so to minimize the amount of volunteers needed from rangers/site lead. I believe the time suggested was Thursday 18h?
CJ Yetman Wed 16 May 2018 9:04PM
I think that suggestion is pretty good, though I fear the specific Thursday 18h time could be debated/argued about.
CJ Yetman Thu 17 May 2018 10:32AM
@suskakinderkiez since your camp is the only one that I know of yet that needs to drive vehicles on-site during the event, how do you feel about the all at once on Thursday at 18h proposal? Do you think that's doable?
Poll Created Fri 18 May 2018 10:37AM
Who should handle camper permits, parking permits and unloading permits at KB? Closed Mon 21 May 2018 5:01PM
Whoever is chosen will coordinate with other relevant stakeholders of Kiez Burn
|Results||Option||% of points||Voters|
||Site Leads & Wanderers||50.0%||1|
|Undecided||0%||20||T PK AGB IW P JF JH N NV H B KS S M|
2 of 22 people have voted (9%)
Daniel Regev Sat 19 May 2018 8:36AM
I think it's best if Gate handles this one as they are the first ones to welcome the cars. Moreover, other areas (perhaps apart from Transport) are way too flooded with things to take care of. And Thilo is a master :P
Kathleen Stoeckel Fri 18 May 2018 11:17AM
How we handled campervans last year: Public announcement that every camper van has to be registered otherwise no entry to site. Registration was done by email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Transport compiled an Excel list, which was then handed to Gate. Transport also informed the campervan owners that they had to be on site before 3pm. Gate checked against the list upon arrival, then someone from either Gate or Transport (whoever was available) went with the campervan to show them where to park (last year we had a designated campervan area). It wasn't super-duper-organized, but it worked OK and I believe everybody was happy. There was no request to enter after official start though. AGAIN: I'd be super happy if some other team is keen to handle the campervans / parking!!!
CJ Yetman Fri 18 May 2018 11:40AM
A significant difference between this year and last is that the Gate is located at a place where vehicles cannot enter the site, so they will have to enter at the back gate where presumably no one from gate will be.
Daniel Regev Sun 20 May 2018 12:53AM
One important thing to know is that the current plan is to have a security guy at that gate at all times, so perhaps they can buzz someone relevant through the radio when a car comes (let it be gate/site lead/wonderers whoever we decide)
Kathleen Stoeckel Tue 29 May 2018 11:30AM
I have received two requests to register campervans - who should I direct them to? Thanks for your help :-)
Saskia · Tue 15 May 2018 11:54PM
Cars allowed on side:
I have to say that I kinda get the argument of Kinder Kiez. Or maybe that's me not wanting to piss off parents? But then again, there is a line to draw. This line is also requiring a certain amount of volunteer work, whatever the solution might be.
I strongly advocate for a lot of signs, pre-education, maybe a little poll in the groups asking people when they plan to arrive by car so gate ans greeter are aware of the influx on the parking space as well as on the gate and can plan accordingly. It is not a safe measure but might give us some heads up. Also to inform greeters on those shifts that they shall expect to be also responsible for parking. If necessary, greeter leads need to take on the parking issue if the greeter team is well instructed. They will do a good job, I assume, so greeter leads on shift can go and help with the parking situation.
If we come up with any good, cheap, nonMOOP ideas to roughly pre-sketch parking lanes, that could help as well. Sketching out a wider lane for campervans ('The late space tourist camp') could limit the discussion on camper-vans on side after wednesday for non-kinderkiez / non - (exception).
And then there is my naive optimism regarding the common sense of people. Everybody hates shit parkers!
No idea yet