talk.kiezburn.org

Power for Kiez Burn 2021

SD Sven Dudink Public Seen by 108

Hi, my name is Sven, and I did power for kiez Burn 2019

This year we wish to have power on kiez burn again, but there might be some changes, we will have fewer sound camps, which equals less consumption, although because of the big amount of land we need to power, it's hard to cut down on power costs,

Kiez Burn Power 2019

  • We used 3 generators for the event.

  • We used two small generators for Build & Strike. (one mobile & one for volunteers Kitchen)

  • All generators and cables were transported by the provider to site

  • The cost for power for the kieze was 50 euro per kilowatt.

  • The price for kiez burn orga was around 100-150 euro per kilowat

  • The power bill in 2019 was around 8000 euro and looked like this:

    Ø  3 generators/fuel tanks: 2160 euro

    Ø  Transport of generators/fuel and connecting of fuel tanks:1840 euro

    Ø  Cables/ bridges/distribution boxes: 2170 euro

    Ø  Fuel (980 liter): 850 euro

    Ø  Build generators: 240 euro

    Ø  Transport of cables/build generators: 833 euro

Power proposal 2021

Power for build: 

  • 2 small generators as in 2019 

    to be confirmed with BUILD needs.

Transport of Build generators and all cables we need to site: 

I propose to coordinate with Build transport Realizer to lower the costs of transport. From Berlin to site).

Generators rental & transport to the site (for the event):

Need to determine power need once all kieze and dreams submit their request

DEADILINE:

Transport of generators by the provider.: Approx 1500 euro ( only the transport)

NOTE. If the power need decreases, the power price for the orga increases, since there is a designated budget for power, I would suggest we put the price for power per continuous Kilowatt.

POWER FOR KIEZE

  • Price: The price for power is set to 70 Euro this year (when enough camps order power the price might drop)

  • Request Power for Kieze & Dreams Here

  • How to estimate power

    Who are in the Power Rangers Team:

    @Sven Dudink - Power & Water Lead

    @richard
    @daniel no
    @Johannes Bittner
    @Alejandro Pereda
    @Sven Tulo



There is an initiative to lower costs and improve sustainability in terms of power which I did research and offer here more information on going off grid( ) maybe next year






M

Maria Mon 2 Aug 2021 1:02PM

Ok perfect, thanks a lot!

SD

Sven Dudink Mon 2 Aug 2021 12:56PM

@Maria @Maria im sure if you payed today it will still arrive on time, about the power outlet at your camp, just pass by deine mudda, i will be around somewhere, and i will lay a outlet to you, i cant lay it to your empty camp, because than the endsocket is potentially open to rain

M

Maria Mon 2 Aug 2021 11:29AM

@Sven Dudink
Hi, I have another quick question.
As it turns out, nobody from my camp (Mary and the Virgins) will arrive before Thursday. Can we still have a power outlet and just plug in on Thursday?
Also, I was really late in paying for our Anteil of the Stromkosten but just did the transfer, I hope it still arrives on time.

Best wishes

Maria

SD

Sven Dudink Wed 28 Jul 2021 10:20PM

  1. there is not really a specific order we lay the cables on, but one thing is for sure, and that is, the power will not switch on before wednesday when the whole network is layed

  2. Cables should be IPx4 Minimum, we will do a little check before the generators go on, but in general its always wise to make sure cables cant get wet, in case of failure the camp will not have power for a short time, so not to big of a deal

  3. the power team will take care of infrastructures like gate, so no need for monkeys to lay cables

D

Daniel Wed 28 Jul 2021 10:04PM

@Sven Dudink

  1. Is it predictable on which day of the build the electricity will be laid to the camps?

  2. Are there any safety protocols on how to seal cable connections, or is it just the general recommendation to use outdoor power strips/cables and keep the connections dry?

  3. Is it clarified who's responsible to get power to the gate (+bury cables if needed)? The D*Monkey build team has signaled that they are running low on capacity, and unfortunately I myself won't arrive until Wednesday to take action.


    (Just talked to Richard on the phone about these issues, however, some answers might be useful for others, too.)

N

Nics Wed 28 Jul 2021 7:44PM

Fantastisch. Thank you.

SD

Sven Dudink Wed 28 Jul 2021 7:18PM

@Nics Yeah no problem at all, we just use the DM/kitchen generator, its not so far away

N

Nics Wed 28 Jul 2021 7:14PM

Hey @Sven Dudink, you know the caravan near muddis camp that will be toolhouse. I kinda need a little bit of power there to charge shit...... Any chance of that on this late notice?? Please? 😬

SD

Sven Dudink Wed 28 Jul 2021 1:20PM

Hi @Kathleen Stoeckel , no need to apply, at deine mudda there is a fixed generator where you can charge stuff or use power tools, there will also be a more portable generator for when you need to build stuff at the gate, you can pick it up from deine mudda as well

KS

Kathleen Stoeckel Wed 28 Jul 2021 1:15PM

@Sven Dudink How do we apply for generator usage during Build? (D*Monkey Camp). Thank you!

AN

Andre Nik Mon 26 Jul 2021 11:15PM

Hi, I also updated our (open air stage) estimated wattage we'll need from 400 to 800 Watt since we'll bring a bit more lights than first anticipated. I hope that works out and sorry for changing that late.

TM

Tim Menuridae Mon 26 Jul 2021 7:24PM

Hello,
I am wondering what power needs have been considered for Nubicuculia Dream? I have filled out power for dreams form for 1500 W. I hope I added our needs in time. I understand power for dreams for Nubicuculia are funded through our dreams grant due to their expense. Correct me if I am wrong.
Cheers and so keen to meet you all on the playyaaaa

SD

Sven Dudink Fri 23 Jul 2021 8:56AM

Hi Anette, the Email with Bank-Details will go out in the next days

A

Annette Fri 23 Jul 2021 8:02AM

@Sven Dudink How do we pay for power and when?

SD

Sven Dudink Fri 23 Jul 2021 8:59AM

Hi @Carlos Vieira

  1. There are 2 generators, one steady at kitchen/deine mudda you can use overthere, and a moving generator usable for everyone

  2. You will receive Max 25 meter from your camp a power connection in the Form of Standard checkout

  3. Yes in most places you can, its important to get them underground so people wont fall over it

CV

Carlos Vieira Thu 22 Jul 2021 4:05PM

Hey guys. I'm jumping into this conversation as the build lead of my camp (Mellow Submarine). I have a few questions and thank in advance for your support!
1) Will power be provided throughout build (Sat Aug 7th)?
2) How's the connection to each camp made? We'll bring extension cords and a water proof extender. What else should I consider?
3) Can I dig cables under the ground, and what are the recommendations here?

P

Purzel Mon 12 Jul 2021 8:09AM

I think that should work out nicely 😊

SD

Sven Dudink Mon 12 Jul 2021 7:50AM

@Linja Flux there will be a portable generator to borrow when needed, this is a shared generator so you might not be able to use it non stop, but last year it was rearly used (1 person requested it for half an hour over the whole period)so i dont expect it to be used that much this year

P

Purzel Sat 10 Jul 2021 9:43PM

The effigy Crew (@Linja Flux ) is requesting temporary power during build. Just one plug to power an electrical saw. That would be on the Playa where the effigy will be placed.

M

Maria Wed 7 Jul 2021 1:09PM

Thank you!

SD

Sven Dudink Wed 7 Jul 2021 12:36PM

HI Maria, on average a heat plate uses 2200 watts, they are available with lower wattage, and also higher (the wattage always directly impacts the heat output s on a low wattage cooking stuff might be very annoying)

M

Maria Tue 6 Jul 2021 5:11PM

Does anyone know how much power an electric heat plate uses? Since gas cookers will be problematic this year, our Kiez is considering to use an electronic heat plate instead but I haven't found out how many watts to add to our power request.

VRS

Veroca R. Sala Wed 23 Jun 2021 12:41PM

You must fill in the power need when you submit your kiez application form. The Kiez registration runs until Friday the 6th of August. Still the sooner you register, the more you help the orga to coordinate their workload. Thanks!🙌

AN

Andre Nik Tue 22 Jun 2021 5:44PM

Is there a deadline for the power requests from Kieze?

SD

Sven Dudink Wed 23 Jun 2021 4:06PM

noted👍

CY

CJ Yetman Tue 22 Jun 2021 3:33PM

We will need very minimal (radio charging, etc) power for the Site Leads homebase. We have a 20m extension cord to reach a distribution point.

VRS

Veroca R. Sala Tue 22 Jun 2021 12:53PM

hey power team, there is a new safety measure from the Fire safety lead @Purzel

"no gas cookers nor open fire for free campers, but only for the Kieze that have a proper kitchen setup "

Are we assuming the Kieze have a "proper" set up?

I can imagine this year there will be many improvised kieze that might not have a good and super safe kitchen set up, will be better to suggest in advance these peeps get electrical cooking devices and include this in their power bill so to not have lasti minute surprise?

I leave it here for discussion @Sven Dudink .

@Erin Jeavons-Fellows do you have an idea of the general level of "professionalism" of the kieze this year?

VRS

Veroca R. Sala Mon 21 Jun 2021 9:42AM

hi, I read this in the comments

"Water boilers and coffeemakers are allowed around the clock this year, over the spark weekend and a talk with the feuerwehr it has become clear that the small gas cookers (the ones who can fall down, will probably not be allowed this year, because of fire safety and the dryness in august, which leaves only powered heat plates or steady gas cookers with an external tank and placed on a stable surface, electronic heat plates have a big power draw, slightly less than water cookers,
the only big difference is, a water cooker runs for 2 minutes"

Is this information updated in the power guidelines? thanks

CY

CJ Yetman Thu 29 Jul 2021 12:25PM

I think my English skills messed me up in this case. Hahaha

P

Purzel Thu 29 Jul 2021 12:17PM

That should work 😊

SD

Sven Dudink Thu 29 Jul 2021 11:51AM

@CJ Yetman 😆 here my english skills might have failed me, in dutch this would have made perfect sense

CY

CJ Yetman Thu 29 Jul 2021 11:39AM

Are you sure between first aid and the fire department is the most appropriate place for a playroom? 😂

SD

Sven Dudink Thu 29 Jul 2021 11:26AM

okay no problem, i put a playroom of 40 meter in between the 2, would that be enough?

P

Purzel Thu 29 Jul 2021 11:10AM

There still in the neighborhood but probably to far from each other to share the same plug, a normal extension cable should suffice. Depending on the final layout.

They get moved around a lot 😉

SD

Sven Dudink Thu 29 Jul 2021 9:05AM

@Purzel do you mean it will be on a totally different place? its definitely not to late, but its good to know so i can rent the correct cables to provide them with power

P

Purzel Thu 29 Jul 2021 8:43AM

The FD tent might not be next to first aid and probably needs an own plug (16A), I hope it not to late.

BTW awesome job on providing water and power to all the hungry people here ❤

SD

Sven Dudink Mon 21 Jun 2021 6:45PM

no problem, noted

P

Purzel Thu 17 Jun 2021 1:26PM

I would like to get power for The First Aid and Feuerwehr Tent, if it isnt planned already.

The first Aid company reckon that they will need 16A at the most, so if we can get 32A for both (they will be next to each other) we should be more than safe.

CY

CJ Yetman
Agree
Thu 10 Jun 2021 1:53PM

I never worried about the generators being harmed or even affected... that seems a bit far fetched to me. Nor "the grid" melting down or anything like that. But there may be reasonable concern about individual circuits... like, can they handle ~3000W? and are they ever shared, meaning two camps using a water boiler simultaneously could trip their one shared circuit? Even that is not really the end of the world. If @mrgalaxy says that shouldn't be a problem, then I'm all for it!

SD

Poll Created Thu 10 Jun 2021 11:50AM

Water boilers and coffeemakers 24/7 Closed Sun 13 Jun 2021 11:00AM

Outcome
by Sven Dudink Mon 21 Jun 2021 8:03AM

Water boilers and coffeemakers are allowed around the clock this year, this also includes electric cooking plates, since small gascookers will probably not be allowed this year

Last year we started allowing water boilers, coffee makers and so on, the impact of this experiment was very little,

generators where most of the time less than 10% load

the highest i have seen a generator go was 25%, this was when underworld did sound tests

last year we allowed boilers and coffemakers in certain timeframes,

i would this year like to allow water boilers and other devices like hair dryers, clock round,

as the generators run anyways, it seems more sustainable to use powered water boilers than using gas (which has huge heat loss)

for anyone wishing for a small update on the decision last year, here is the 2019 thread: https://talk.kiezburn.org/p/RzMBbqvN/water-boilers-and-coffemakers

Who will this proposal affect:
as far as i can think, nobody (please correct me if im wrong)

WHAT CAN GO WRONG:

when a camp goes over its power limit, their power will turn off


What are the concequences:
The power distribution box overload protector switch will switch off, this means it shuts down ,either a site lead or a power lead turns the switch back on, nearly all camps will have their own switch, smaller and hard to reach camps might be together on one switch

GENERATOR OVERLOAD
in the extremely rare case whole kiezburn decides to make coffee and tea at the same time:
every camp needs to run at least 3 water boilers and all power distribution box overload protectors need to fail at the same time, at that point, the generators will have a overload and shuts down, a power-lead or site lead will need to turn the generator switch back on,
also we are on 3 generators, with separate networks, so whenever something happens it will only temporarly power off 1 third of the event

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 75.0% 3 JH CY VRS
Abstain 25.0% 1 J
Disagree 0.0% 0  
Block 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 146 HÁ J N JT AN J KB A TT A DN M R D M MC M Ø P R

4 of 150 people have voted (2%)

SD

Sven Dudink Sat 5 Jun 2021 7:29PM

Hi Vero, the power team has bin assembled from people who have shown interest in power, right now the power team is full, but it might always be that some places are added over time, Dusty hugs & Love

VRS

Veroca R. Sala Sat 5 Jun 2021 1:30PM

@Sven Dudink Can you tell us how is the team formed for power? who is doing what?

Richard is doing lightning with the power team! cool😎 update this thread and include that info, I have some input about lights on the paths for those hippies to know where to go!

! kisses and loveeeee

VRS

Veroca R. Sala Fri 4 Jun 2021 2:57PM

Thanks!🎉