2021 Leave No Trace Grant

D Diarmaid Public Seen by 56

As it is currently written, every dream is eligible for the LNT grant, and it is not very well defined what the terms of this grant are. This has lead to it being applied pretty inconsistently throughout the dreams.

Should we cancel this grant, apoligise to the dreamers, and leave it like that, or should we fund every dream to start with 10% of their minimum budget?

My vote is to remove this grant. This is really sucky for the dreamers, but seems the fairest way forward, rather than having it inconsistently applied.


Saskia Fri 25 Jun 2021 2:35PM

Removing the grant will free up resources, won't it?
Can we then instead distribute these resources either by giving more tokens per voter or by any other means? For some dreams, it is quite a bunch of money (equivalent to full votes of at least 10+ people) and I feel we also need to let them know where the funds allocated for that go to. I think they should DEFINITELY go to dreams.

I am very much for removing the grant, yes.


Lis Fri 25 Jun 2021 2:59PM

I‘m just half through all dreams checking LNT to try to make it as fair as possible. I think LNT is really hard to decide, cause it‘s almost impossible to prove it and also in this moment very depending on the opinion of the single dream guide (who most probably couldn't compare with all the other dreams). For example some dreamers wrote in their description that they re-use materials but when you look closer into the budget you still find these materials as expenses (stuff they need to buy). Also it‘s very nice to bring a dream back from last Kiezburn and therefore (maybe) leave no trace but it’s also super nice to see new dreams and artworks. And yes in this case I‘d also remove LNT grant or make it at least not a single decision of one dream guide cause 10% is a lot. Hope to get some more opinions on this!


Melinda Gonzalez Fri 25 Jun 2021 4:15PM

I don't see how Lis can go through all the dreams alone but she seems to be well on the way! I can do a few but am also in favor of cancelling it, since it was badly defined and anyway it's not an easy job even with a better definition. Should we try to get newbies involved?

it may be best to just take responsibility for our error and cancel it for everyone. … I think it’ll be a lot of work to fix and I’m not sure the Dream Guides have enough enthusiasm, so this hard work will be again shouldered by a few. I don’t want to do it. Then Guides may have to explain to individual Dreamers why it was removed for some Dreams and not others. We can say it was badly defined at the start, everyone had a different idea, the error wasn't caught unil it was too late. We made that decision in March. People forgot. I think they will understand.


Melinda Gonzalez Sat 26 Jun 2021 9:13PM

So Lis wrote some notes for every dream to use to re-evaluate the LNT+ bonus. It makes sense to me to now define the criteria for the LNT+ grant clearly and apply it to the dreams before voting finishes.

It's still kinda messy but better than what's currently happening... at least we have a way forward that is more consistent and fair than before but we'd have to act fast to make use of the work Lis has done


Lis Sun 27 Jun 2021 10:16AM

100% agree with you Melinda. We have to act fast and define it more clearly. On top if it's not well defined, it (a 10% grant) shouldn't be a decision from just a single dream guide. I went through all approved dreams and compared them regarding LNT. Happy to share my notes.


Saskia Tue 29 Jun 2021 9:02AM

😬 I have never had less opinions about anything. Every option gives me a headache and voting ends tomorrow. Taking away already granted euros now one day befor voting ends feels like a shit move & I advice against it.

I am sorry everyone, I don’t know what to do. I think the decision should be made by the people who birthed this idea, as I have not been part of the reasoning, idea or setup of that rule.

Leave a better trace is complicated. We made an exception for this damn blueberry bush in 2019 and now we end up discussing how we can ‘prove’ that people are LNT (+). 😩😵


Roko Tue 29 Jun 2021 9:48AM

another last second decision taking 10 % ? the process this year encourages big camps to next time apply for 10 token dreams but create 90 of them and get funds that way.


Sven Dudink Tue 29 Jun 2021 10:20AM

just a thought overhere, giving everyone a LNT grand who would reach target without is financially exactly the same as removing the LNT grand right?

if we remove it, we have more money, which would be distributed over the dreams who have reached target, if i don't oversee anything the 2 should have the same outcome,

by giving the LNT to everyone, it is for this year sort of erased without upsetting people to much, since everyone has it, and than in a future year we could create a full protocol


Roko Wed 30 Jun 2021 4:26PM

no worries, just lobbying our peoples voices here. thanks for transparency. we will recycle the shit out of this world anyways. "leave a better trace" will bring up a lot of discussions, always :P probz to the motivation u guys show.


CJ Yetman Tue 29 Jun 2021 10:26AM

agree with not making more last minute decisions, but.... I actually like the idea of breaking up big dreams that fund an entire camp into smaller, more discrete dreams that people can vote on


Melinda Gonzalez Wed 30 Jun 2021 4:19PM

Sorry, Roko. We are an inexperienced team and we screwed up with this. It was originally meant to be, "leave a better trace," like planting trees and such but newer guides sort of interpreted it how they wanted and gave it to a few camps that should maybe not have got it. The LNT funds were granted without any consistency and in a hurry. There was no good way to fix it this year. The LNT funds will go back into the pool of total Dreams funds and will (if the new proposal is carried by the community) be distributed according to votes, rather than any special bonuses.


Diarmaid Mon 28 Jun 2021 10:16PM

If I remember your notes correctly, there was only one dream which actually qualified, and that dream did not have any budget. Can you confirm that?


Lis Tue 29 Jun 2021 8:35AM

LNT was given to 11 dreams and since I didn't get the criteria how some of the dreams got qualified for the grant and others not, I started to take notes, which I brought in for a further discussion.

The Dreamers Manual 2021 says very short:

"Kiezburn encourages artists to re-use/recycle their artworks! Artists who can prove their Dream will Leave No Trace will automatically receive 10% of their requested minimum grant money (*as long as the other 90% is received with voting/tokens)"

And YES (as it should be in all Burns) a majority of the dreams care about this rule and the "environmental impact".

BUT how can we prove? It's almost impossible before we see a dream realized on site and after strike.... There are only very few dreams - mostly without or low budget - that look kind of qualified for LNT grant in both ways of the "Manual". AND way more dreams (than only 11) that care about re-use and re-cycling.

So what do we do?

Cancelling LNT-grant? (But in the same time it's very important to encourage dreamers for LNT)

Defining a very strict LNT-rule?

Or a less strict one? Giving the grant already, if re-use/re-cycling is mentioned...?? (But still transport/fuel and other material costs appear...)

One thing for sure: We need a clearer definition!


Diarmaid Fri 25 Jun 2021 2:37PM

Yes, it will. The money will still go to dreams, just via the final process instead of through a decision made by a guide.