talk.kiezburn.org
June 18th, 2021 11:18

Dreams Platform is once again disappointing

Benjamin Langholz
Benjamin Langholz Public Seen by 132

Once again I find the Dreams platform submissions super disappointing. It repeatedly encourages a culture of "your contribution of a gift, or workshop should be funded through everyone's ticket money".

Let's hope the voting proves me incorrect.

CJ Yetman

CJ Yetman June 18th, 2021 12:00

We could not fund anyone’s contribution and make the tickets cheaper. Is that what you’re hoping for?

Bee

Bee June 21st, 2021 09:59

I didn't look through the Dreams properly since before the weekend but personally I was pleasantly surprised at the offerings considering there is very short notice to create things this year. I find it unnecessarily rude to call every Dreamer's vision 'disappointing' especially when they are taking a risk to create something while not being certain there will even be a Kiez Burn this year. However, art is subjective and everyone is going to have a different opinion of what impresses them I suppose.

Maybe you felt it wasn't the right year for it given the Covid uncertainty, but I wonder if you will still be bringing your proposal for your own vision of big art to a future Kiez Burn event?

Melinda Gonzalez

Melinda Gonzalez June 24th, 2021 15:24

Hi Ben. That's too bad that you are disappointed. The dream guides are quite inexperienced at burning and didn't really understand that there were standards for what could be approved beyond what was in the Dreamer Manual from 2019. Which dream is yours? And what criteria are you using to judge it superior to most of the others?

Purzel

Purzel June 24th, 2021 16:15

Hey Benjamin, I hear your criticism but I'm missing a possible solution or your participation within the Dreams realisationcrew.

Whats the point of your post other than expressing your disappointment?

Saskia

Saskia June 24th, 2021 22:49

I am sorry to read you're disappointed again. What do you think about this?

K

Karlo June 25th, 2021 11:18

I would like to add two aspects:
* First we should emphase that gifting should not get a budget through a dream..
There is a difference between a gifting or a dream..

* Second we should also emphase that Kiezes that decorates their Kiez should do this with their Kiez members and no funding at all.

* Third I would emphase that at least 75% of a dream needs a funding, because we should not expect that artists has to pay Kiezburn while the tickets are cheap.

* It would be awesome if there is a storage that an be used as a funding that new things do not always needs to be bought (wood, ..)
(example: the effigy has already full token approval.. which is a surprise.. so there is a pre choice token allocation which is more or less exactly the same what Benjamins wants to have.

I was not able to plan my dream of a temple with this years uncertainty and it was unclear if KB will happen at all and when and money. I assumed that bigger projects needs more time and a stabile expectation that it will happend.
I am also not doing the temple at Kiezburn as no one supported my in emotions or human speach and encouragement. This is one of the reasons why I decided against this.

If we would emphase a bit more the first 3 aspects in my reply we could cluster the dreams maybe in different topics and have a mix of small/ smalles and bigger.

CJ Yetman

CJ Yetman June 25th, 2021 11:31

I thought most artists consider doing their art their “gift” to the community, so if we don’t fund “gifting”, there’s not much left to fund.

K

Karlo June 25th, 2021 11:36

There is a fine line between, gifting, getting money from dreams to use it to finance the trip or camp..underfunding and so on.. This is not as trivial as to put it in a one sentence statement and there is always a way to dump this with such a one.

Saskia

Saskia June 25th, 2021 11:40

There are attempts for sharing of material. A storage exists but as it is never clear who returns and who doesn't the storage cannot host a bunch of 'maybe we need it' materials unless there was a year round dedicated storage lead who does and inventory and makes sure shit does not get mixed up. We do not have that currently.

To your 3rd: I am super fine with cheap, small, raggedy trash art. IDK. No artist is forced to pay Kiezburn. It's the artists who like to do big art who are reasonably pissed that Kiez Burn doesn't have a 150 euro ticket which would pay for big installations etc. But people have different opinions on that. I personally rather have my Kiez Burn for 80 Eurp with lots of little projects full of love rather than dealing with BIG ARTists. :)

What I am saying is: If the allocation of art fund wouldn't consistently burn EVERYBODY who leads it out, mostly because of unneccessary harsh criticism from ARTists, things would maybe evolve better and more controlled. But as a matter of fact every person who has lead allocating funds for Kiez Burn burned out and did not return to the job (me included). And this is mostly due to the tone certain people choose to use when communicating with the people in charge.

I disagree with your 2nd. Space of a kiez that is openly accessible for all other Kiez Burn participants is a communcal space and may be decorated with communal money.


I am sorry about your temple dream tho, it sounds great and I certainly could use a temple to grieve this year.
I myself only joined talk after my break a couple of days ago and have to say I simply didn't know you had that plan. :/

K

Karlo June 25th, 2021 14:34

Thanks for the heads up.. - For my current dream it was clear this would need some money of aobut 1200-1500 euro.. We could do collect other money of about 500 euro.. which ends up with 700 euro which we need. That is for sure what I read in this thread to much.. while it is only 0.70 euro each..not a big thing.
What was the main issue with this year and I guess mainly because of covid was that no human living responds or take the time to pick up a phone and say "hello, what do you want to do"..
I am used of 20 years living in IT-systems and now that I quit I just do not want this machines in which we all are the smallest gear and close to nothing..
as with my temple dream that wants to do exactly the opposite..
Maybe there is more time and preparing of a concept next year..
this year every plan is still on a high risc of not being able to be done.
I am sorry about your personal situation and your grief..
Simone will be at Kinderkiez (which is in fact at the last years pirate camp) at the lake. you can bring her a letter or picture or a "thing" which she can then place to this "Temple of Now" on your behalf..and send you a picture of this..
I suggested this to her if she would not do this for the kiezburners..

Jan-Christian Kaspareit

Jan-Christian Kaspareit June 29th, 2021 14:29

Your temple project looks great by the way from what I have seen. There was a lot of basic behind the scenes work this year regarding Covid and general orga and we were not sure if a Kiez Burn is possible in 2021. We are still not 100% sure, but things are looking good.
So basically the whole project Kiez Burn 2021 just kicked off in the end of May.
I would love to have your temple next year, in case it is not burned.

K

Karlo June 29th, 2021 14:31

Hello Jan-Christian
We do not burn the temple and I would be very happy if I can also build it up on Kiezburn.. Maybe even bigger and more beautiful..The critical element are "helping" hands.. but I am sure this will happen