Kiez Burn water 2021

SD Sven Dudink Public Seen by 69

Hi there and welcome to the water threat 2021

Things that are certain now:
We will have water
we will not have hot water (just sun-warmed)
there will be showers (not sure yet how many)
water price for in Mecklenburg vollpommern is 1,66 per QM3
the water will got to the following places:
there is a sceptic tank for greywater, see map

Things still needed to be done:

Renting the wasserstandrohr, all are taken at the moment and we need to contact the water comapyn 1st of august, what I understood is, they have a very last minute approach, and they could not do anything for us just yet, there is one reserved for us though

Get a more extended water network (by buying more tubing)

Things we will sort out on site:
Watercube distribution
extended waternet and where the network will run to


Water Map

Showers ( Alex comment )

Only 1 set of showers have been left dysfunctional.

Freiland updated their whole water system for their event (as was previously mentioned a few times here). So there is some operating and clean water.

Unfortunately, because the water hasn't been official tested, it needs to be labeled as "untested water" or "not drinking water".

If you or anyone is aware of the necessary process to have the water systems approved for drinking officially this would be very helpful at this stage. (It is a recently developed burocracy issue, we have been drinking from these systems for years without any incident)

Site updates

after 2nd visit 18th July: as reference

if there are any questions, feel free to post a message, this thread will soon be updated when more info is available


Dr. med. Lisa-Marlen Rogmann Thu 12 Aug 2021 10:09AM

@Sven Dudink the Amazonian water is leaking. We need to get disconnected shortly to readjust the water outlet, gonna try contact you via walkie talkie as well thx


Sven Dudink Wed 4 Aug 2021 3:22PM

Hi @Annette i allready had a call with gur about it, that tube is still there, its the same one from 2019, one thing i did not check when i inspected the site, is the diameter, according to last year waterlead daniel, freiland uses 20 and 25 MM, so its either one of the 2, on Friday i can inspecs this for you guys, if that's to late, i would advice getting 20MM and a 20 to 25MM adapter (should not cost more than a few euros)


Annette Wed 4 Aug 2021 2:03PM

@Sven Dudink Can you tell me if we will get a similar water tube to UnderWorld like in 2019 (see pic below)? We would love to build 1-2 extra showers (for only eco friendly soap) close to the swamp next to our kitchen and therefor need to make 2 tabs (one for kitchen, one for shower) in the tube. We need to know the size (diameter) from the tube that will arrive in the Underworld. Thäänks!


Chris Audax Tue 3 Aug 2021 5:05PM



Sven Dudink Mon 2 Aug 2021 10:27PM

Hi Chris, i just received the tubes and connectors today, i can be fairly sure this will work out, unless there are circumstances i have not calculated for, and even than, there is the option of going to a bauhaus to get the things missing, also there is probably still a whole bunch of water stuff in storage, which is not taken in our calculation, so i would say im pretty sure


Chris Audax Mon 2 Aug 2021 2:03PM

Hi Sven,

regarding the "optional" extended outlet currently shown to go into direction of The Saloon and Musotopia: Description says we will do our best to make it happen - are you able to say how sure we could be that this actually happens? We are more than happy to support the setup :)


Sven Dudink Mon 2 Aug 2021 11:00PM

@Lise, using a long gardenhose is definitly a possiblity, my wish is still to get water to your camp through the tubes, it still depends a bit on what is still in the storage, but i give it a good chance that its possible, one important thing is, some gartenhosses, especially older ones, can have lead in them, which makes them not suitable for drinking water, the other issue is: the pressure is fairly high, i dont know yet if regular tubes will hold, so it would be wise disconnecting the water when not in use or at night,


Lise Sun 1 Aug 2021 9:35AM

@Sven Dudink Is that an option? I understand the showers on top of the hill are not working, but would that be the nearest access point for water for our camps?


Meghan Thu 29 Jul 2021 8:42PM

For a while it looked like my kiez might be placed in that area too, and I'd been thinking about bringing a (very) long garden hose and a faucet splitter thing to bring water down from the showers on top of the hill to that area.

I can't remember exactly what the terrain looks like there and how feasible it would be, but I imagine it could be easier to work out a scheme like that than to haul water for several days...


Lise Thu 29 Jul 2021 7:27PM

Hi Sven,

similar question about getting water to our camp: we, Yalla Panta Rhei, and our neigbours Academia Philozoophia and Camp Schlampagne are kind of located in the desert when it comes to water access, on the current site map it looks like we're in the last part of the Gelände where the water network doesn't go. Is there still a chance it's going to be extended or should we be prepared to bring barrows and handcarts to transport water containers? Cheers!


Sven Dudink Fri 30 Jul 2021 5:36PM

Hi @Rachel okay thats great that you guys bring your own PE, yeah in that case we will certainly be able to connect you,

i didnt hear anything about having mandetory sinks, but maybe im missing something, maybe the covid lead knows @Hanna-Maija (Animal) ?

flow heater is certainly not mandetory

hoping i helped you a bit with these answers




Rachel Fri 30 Jul 2021 10:40AM

Hi Sven,

the monkeys bring 50m of 20mm PE pipe.

With basin I ment like a lavatory/sink ( like this thing. I heard that we as a camp need to have one (for the kitchen) for hand washing. Is that right?

And is it sufficient to use cold water for hand-washing in the camp (kitchen) or do we need a flow-heater? This is what I meant in the previous question ;)




Sven Dudink Thu 29 Jul 2021 1:35PM

Hi Rachel,

could you tell me how long your PE pipe is? it is good to know for easier planning,

with basin, do you mean for greywater? in general how the tapwater is distributed or what they do with it is fully up to the camp

the water delivered is not drinking water certified, it comes through the pipes as drinking water, the water pipes are approved for drinking water, the only thing what is missing is a official lab test, thereby the water is not officially drinking water, this has been the case for the last 2 year,

about the water heater, you don't need a water heater, if you decide to bring one, this will increase your power costs, but its certainly possible,




Rachel Thu 29 Jul 2021 12:33PM

Thanks for the response and sorry for the confusion. Monkey camp will bring PE pipe ;)

Another question to @Sven Dudink or others: Do we need a basin in camp for the kitchen?

And if yes, does the Gesundheitsamt or any other Amt has any requirements regarding it?

Is it alright if cold water comes out of a canister or does it need to be a pipe? Is it sufficient to have cold water or do we need a water heater?

If that has been answered before, I apologize 🙈

Cheers, Rachel (d'monkeys)


Friso Tue 3 Aug 2021 7:07PM



Julian Thu 29 Jul 2021 11:46AM

Thanks @Chris and @Sven Dudink ! We'll make sure to dump our gray pool water in the bushes and not in the lake.

Do you know if Werkhouse has a water pump that could help us with that?


Cris Thu 29 Jul 2021 9:11AM

@Julian please, no dumping of grey water in the lake! Never!

Grey water should contain only (real,not the fake ones) bio degradable soap, and it should never be dispossed directly in the lake, but let be filtered by the soil trying to avoid overflooding (disposing slowly and in bushy areas) The further from the lake you disposse it, the better.

Pool water is more likely to contain other than soap (like the evil sunscreen) so please, put some attention there.

@Friso correct me, please, if Im wrong or not updated.


Sven Dudink Wed 28 Jul 2021 5:03PM

Hi @Julian yes indeed you will have a water source inside your camp arriving from the wooden structure, im not sure about dumping any kind of water in the lake, for sure you would need bio degradable stuff, on the other side there is a kind of pit, this might be okay, but not sure about it, the water disposal is part of LNT. maybe @Friso knows more about it ?


Julian Wed 28 Jul 2021 4:42PM

@Sven Dudink Our Kinky Kiez seems to have a water faucet directly in the camp. We'll produce quite a bit of gray water because out the Wandwashing-station (for our workshops), a pool is also in discussion.

We have a lake close to our camp, can we dump our gray water (at least the one of the pool) in the lake?


Sven Dudink Wed 28 Jul 2021 3:16PM

Dear Monkeys
@Kathleen Stoeckel @Rachel
Could you guys get your info synced?

on rachels Comment i wrote how water will be distributed,

organizing a cube and cleaning it is responsibility of the camps itself, but we will be very happy to fill up the tubes

if you guys own your own PE tube, that would definitly help getting water to the monkeys,

the chances are big that we will have enough tubing to also go to monkeys, but its hard to say since the landscape is so different from what we see here on maps

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Sven Dudink Wed 28 Jul 2021 1:16PM

Hi Rachel, the water network as it is will almost certainly happen, it might also get bigger. according to last years water equipment order there is a lot more water equipment.
if that is still in storage, the water network will be way bigger, if you guys have your own PE pipe than for sure bring it, and i will do my best to connect you guys, the pipe thickness is 20MM


Rachel Wed 28 Jul 2021 1:01PM

Hey there,

I was a bit confused about the site plan. Our great monkey camp (40 people) would be happy to have some water on site and the site plan first had new pipes going towards beehive. Then for the last couple days this pipe was not on the site plan anymore and today it was back. So my question would be:

Is there a new water pipe now going toward beehive?

And if yes, would it be alright if we as the monkey camp bring PE pipe and connect it to the closest allocator and bury the pipe underground?

If that is no option we just stick to our water canisters ;)

Cheers, Rachel

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Jan Thomas Mon 26 Jul 2021 8:51PM

Yes agreed, this is all exactly the same as in previous years. We just need to make it clear in the survival guide that the water is not tested/certified as drinking water, i.e. use is at own risk which i understand is important from insurance perspective... but the water is drinking quality at the connection point up at the street, it's just that the water system on site isn't tested/verified. But e.g. using it for cooking etc. should be perfectly fine.

I would suggest phrasing it the following way: "Kiezburn provides water to its participants at multipe points across the site. The water is not tested and certified as drinking water quality so use is 100% at your own risk. Please note that this is only due to the pipes/hoses used to distribute the water on site. The water that enters the pipes on the site is drinking quality, but we can't guarantee it is still drinking quality at the other end."

@Caroline would be great if you can please capture that if it's not in there already, thank you!


Annette Mon 26 Jul 2021 8:25PM

Awesome, good to know everything goes, ah sorry, flows its way. We will update if the Amt or anyone reaches out for testing, but I really don´t expect so.


Sven Dudink Mon 26 Jul 2021 8:20PM

Hi @Annette thanks for the info, for this year testing seems to be hard, next year easier because we will have fixed endpoints 2019 and 2018 we also didnt have tested water, we do follow all standards from DVGW, so technically it should be fine, the wasserstandrohr is reserved for us, just needs to be picked up on friday 06.08 before 14:00 in demmin, im not sure yet who will do this


Annette Mon 26 Jul 2021 8:12PM

@Sven Dudink for you information some updates from site liaison:
The water is not officially drinking water, but should be ok to drink. It has not being checked, so. drinking is only on own risk! Freiland also announced before their event "No drinking water on site, bring your own". We might need to inform people about that?

If necessary, there will be a testing by the water authority (as it was planned for 2020), this would costs money per sample. We don´t expect it to happen and I don´t want to awaken sleeping dogs, it also did not happen at Freiland Sommerfest. If they come, than probably because the Ordnungsamt send them and we will know beforehand.

We need to get a "Zurohr" at GKU Demmin. I guess @Jan Thomas knows more.


Dr. med. Lisa-Marlen Rogmann Wed 28 Jul 2021 9:41AM

You could't make me any happier than with this message today :)


Sven Dudink Wed 28 Jul 2021 9:40AM

As for now the plan is to connect amazonia, and im also fairly sure that will happen


Dr. med. Lisa-Marlen Rogmann Wed 28 Jul 2021 8:42AM

thank you! We will be so grateful, if you guys still manage to connect Amazonia to the waternet (please let me know anytime if you start planning on doing so :))


Sven Dudink Mon 26 Jul 2021 2:48PM

Hi Lisa-Marlen, for Amazonia cubes are definitly an option, i also very much hope on connecting Amazonia to the waternet, but this is not in the planning yet, it depends on how much tube we will have available, regular garden hose tubes on such big distance is possible, the only thing important is, that the water will be disconnected from the main point when not in use or when not supervised/at night, the pressure is fairly high on the network, and a regular hose might give some problems, mainly the connectors popping off, which is at daytime not a big deal, but at night and unnoticed might get very messy with a waterflow of ca 2000Liter per hour


Dr. med. Lisa-Marlen Rogmann Mon 26 Jul 2021 10:59AM

@Sven Dudink so far Amazonia doesn't have a water supply but we will have to care for 40 people...what kind of options do we have? is there a possibility that the water extension you are currently working on will reach our camp? If not, what would you recommend as the best water supply option for us? Also a hose that we connect to a water point at deine Mudda (i guess it is the closest) or a big water tank that gets filled up at our site?


Meghan Fri 6 Aug 2021 9:44AM

@Sven Dudink I'm just gonna bring the connector pieces I'd need for both 20mm or 25mm pipe. So there's no need for you to check and tell me which size is at my water point, but thanks anyway for offering! :)


Meghan Wed 4 Aug 2021 1:45PM

@Sven Dudink ok, will do! :)

Just to clarify: I'm not asking about what kind of pipe you're laying for extending the network, but about what kind of valves I'll find at the existing water points (the lines marked at "waternet permanent" on the map). They must have some sort of faucet or tap with an opening and closing valve, right?

(EDIT: i just saw the photo Annette posted of the water spout last year at underworld - I guess something like that is what we'll find at the water point in the southeast edge by pirates and pyjamfort?)


Sven Dudink Wed 4 Aug 2021 11:15AM

@Meghan i will try and remember and its in my to do list, but in case if i forget, please tag me on saturday, i will be mostly disconnected from phone, but i will for a small amount of time be online to check these things


Meghan Wed 4 Aug 2021 8:09AM

@Sven Dudink ok, thanks very much! If you tell me by Saturday, that would be excellent :)

(I'll be on site on Monday)


Sven Dudink Tue 3 Aug 2021 7:30PM

@Meghan i just got the same question form someone else today for another camp, this is a thing i didnt register, its either 20MM PE or 25MM PE , when will you be on site? i could tell you friday evening or saturday morning


Meghan Tue 3 Aug 2021 2:18PM

@Sven Dudink sorry for the many questions, but I can't remember exactly what the water points looked like in the past. Will the water point (specifically the one at the southern edge of the site, near LazyPyjamFort) have a 3/4 inch threaded faucet, or something else? I just want to make sure I bring the right connector if I want to attach a hose to it :)


Sven Dudink Sat 24 Jul 2021 7:18PM

Hi Meghan, in general that could work, the pressure is fairly high for standard garden hose, so it will be a bit of trial and failure, it would be wise turning of the pressure at the main hose when not in use to prevent the connectors breaking at night and have your camp overflown


Meghan Sat 24 Jul 2021 6:58PM

Question: if a kiez is within garden-hose-reach of a water point, would it be plausible for the kiez to bring their own faucet splitter thingy and long hose to bring water to them? Or would that be a bad idea for some infrastructure-related reasons which aren't occurring to me?


Veroca R. Sala Thu 22 Jul 2021 3:43PM

Made some updates on the initial thread with info extracted fro the coments


Veroca R. Sala Thu 22 Jul 2021 3:42PM

pasting a comment from another thread relevant on this thread ( swimming pools thread) (


Sven Dudink Thu 22 Jul 2021 12:43PM

The water testing is something i hope we get done this year, but i doubt if its going to be possible, it seems like every new tube we lay needs to be tested again, and while we lay tubes on build it might be very hard getting it tested


Sven Dudink Thu 22 Jul 2021 12:41PM

yes we know a bit more, the water netis functional and can be seen overhere on the map:

the pipes seem to be in a good condition


Alex Kaos Thu 22 Jul 2021 8:00AM

Only 1 set of showrrs have been left dysfunctional.

Freiland updated their whole water system for their event last weekend (as was previously mentioned a few times here). So there is some operating and clean water.

Unfortunately because the water hasn't been official tested, it needs to be labelled as "untested water" or "not drinking water".

If you or anyone is aware of the necessary process to have the water systems approved for drinking officially this would be very helpful at this stage. (It is a recently developed burocracy issue, we have been drinking from these systems for years without any incident)


Dr. med. Lisa-Marlen Rogmann Wed 21 Jul 2021 4:39AM

If the showers are in such bad conditions how is it with the rest of the water pipes for the water supply of the camps? Do we already know more @Sven Dudink?


Sven Dudink Thu 22 Jul 2021 8:04AM

Hi @Major Tom there will be electricity, there is working water towards the showers, greywater is also working on the showers next to DM, on the other showers i dont know how greywater is done, i believe it has bin ditched in the soil, abou the water heaters, warm water showers is not something we have had in the past, people will have to go for cold showers,


Major Tom Tue 20 Jul 2021 3:21PM

Yes... we'll do that :) Thank you for responding so fast. It makes totally sense to keep one shower online and close the other one. I will make that happen :)


Veroca R. Sala Tue 20 Jul 2021 1:25PM

From what I understand ( I havent been onsite last weekend) there are only functioning showers down the hill. So we will probably have only half of the showers we thought we would have, and probably need half of the volunteers we currently have.

I dont think there is a budget and resources to fix the showers up the hill, they seemed to need more than a hose.

In my opinion, we should just move forward with fewer showers, and maybe since we have volunteers recruited, provide extra care to those showers and make more frequent cleaning. (?)


Major Tom Tue 20 Jul 2021 4:57AM

Dear critters @Sven Dudink , @Veroca R. Sala and the build leads @Natacha Kromatik and @Don. Thank you @Cris for taking a look at the showers at the Freiland Sommerfest. According to the information of @Cris the showers (HS) are not in a working condition. There is hoses missing and no shower heads installed. Also I guess we do not have any water connection, electricity or grey water tank there. In the worst case, the water heaters are not working anymore.
How do we procced with this issue? Who could help?

I would propose us to to rebuild everything there. Please write it into the build spread sheet as I don't have acces to it.

Thank you in advance for your support,

@Major Tom


Sven Dudink Wed 4 Aug 2021 3:25PM

@Dr. med. Lisa-Marlen Rogmann
Amazonia is connected to the waternet, cubes need to be brought by the camps,


Dr. med. Lisa-Marlen Rogmann Wed 4 Aug 2021 3:06PM

how can we claim a water cube for Amazonia?


Dr. med. Lisa-Marlen Rogmann Wed 4 Aug 2021 2:52PM

how can we claim a water cube for Amazonia?


Sven Dudink Wed 28 Jul 2021 1:03PM

@Roko we have tapwater on the area, the sceptic tank is used for greywater, so absolutely not wise to drink from, i think my map placement wasn't very accurate, i corrected it now, nubucuculia will almost certainly have tapwater in the camp


Roko Wed 28 Jul 2021 11:23AM

thanks for the update @Sven Dudink ! this point at the sceptic watertank - does that mean it is also an endpoint, where we can get water or is it just a junction?


Sven Dudink Wed 28 Jul 2021 12:47AM

Yes the endpoints are available now through the shared map


Alex Kaos Thu 22 Jul 2021 7:56AM

kB owns a fair few water (c.a.4-8), the rest belong to camps. They are in the back left corner of the kB storage.

Any camps who would rather donate their mouldy water cubes to the fire safety of the event are welcome, otherwise we have no jurisdiction over them.

It's all good x


Major Tom Tue 20 Jul 2021 5:05PM

Yes at the fusion festival we've used H2O2 (medical grade) in ~0,05% concentration to prevent bacteria from growing in plastic containers in the heat. The problem is that your containers need to be cleaned once with high concentrations to "kill all bacteria inside" that created the smell and (i guess) black smear.
It might be possible that you'll never be able to clean the container again. It's more easy (and less expensive) to bring a clean container that u can use for drinking water:

If you need less water u can also use 30l HD-PE canisters. This is the most common and cheap solution:

Consider pouring 1x 4cl cup of 1-3% H2O2 into each container for sterilizing.


Stefan Tue 20 Jul 2021 4:53PM

Great suggestion @Major Tom - our camp is in need of that tank for the kitchen, so should be food-grade. A quicksearch suggests that this can also be done with Hydrogen-Peroxide, would you suggest otherwise/have experience with that?


Major Tom Tue 20 Jul 2021 4:43PM

@Purzel , @Stefan according to the usage of that particular ibc container (for grey water, not for drinking water anymore) I would propose buying 10l 11,9% Hydrogen-Peroxide for cleansing and dilute it a bit.

  • Please take care while dealing with that stuff, it's highly corrosive. Always wear protective clothing such as glasses and gloves.

  • This chemical reacts with bacteria, virae, mould, smell and everything else.

  • While doing so, it is "consumed" to Water and oxides. -> Waste water is non toxic and no moop!


Stefan Tue 20 Jul 2021 4:24PM

Good point, Cheers - Chlorine Bleach is used to disinfect drinking water and a quickread told me that its not anymore harmful than regular grey water if dissolved. But will research on this further and check before any actions are taken


Purzel Tue 20 Jul 2021 4:05PM

My only Information is, that during spark we opened one of them up (it was all bloated) and the small was disgusting.

Given that the lid was closed for 2 years, I'm very sure that a decent ecosystem has evolved.

If your planning on using chemicals like chlorine to clean it, please consider what you'll do with the Moop.


Stefan Tue 20 Jul 2021 3:49PM

Do you have any more details on this, or know whom to get them from? Main question would be: is there moldy, slimy stuff or anything similar growing inside the tank? That would make cleaning a bit harder, but it can be done with Chlorine bleach and pressure cleaner


Purzel Tue 20 Jul 2021 2:42PM

Thanks for pointing it out to me, I was under the assumption that the tanks belong to KB. I'll make sure to start a conversation with the camps involved and only use the container that I'm allowed 😊


CJ Yetman Tue 20 Jul 2021 9:33AM

to. be clear though... if your camp owns its own water cube, as far as I know, you can do whatever you want with it.... I don't believe @Purzel is suggesting, nor that there is any intention to forcefully steal water cubes from the Kieze and repurpose them.... I believe the idea is that any of the water cubes in storage that are not claimed by camps will be used for the fire department purpose.... right @Purzel?


CJ Yetman Tue 20 Jul 2021 9:31AM

check the Kieze facilitation thread and FAQ... that's the best source of info for Kieze like this (thanks @Erin Jeavons-Fellows!) (and yes, water info is in there)


Roko Tue 20 Jul 2021 9:19AM

thanks for the update. did you communicate this to the camps? because i did not know this and the water tanks are property of the camps and not of the fire department, so just reusing this without communication should not be done. i'll ask my kiez members about cleaning experiences or if we should buy a new one.


Purzel Tue 20 Jul 2021 8:51AM

The fire department requests that we spread around water cubes to ensure a quick water source for them to fight evolving fires.

The water cubes that are not cleaned up and used for drinking water, will be dedicated to this.

We where able to see the current water layout for water pipes last weekend, it will take a moment before its implemented in the map.


Roko Tue 20 Jul 2021 8:49AM

@Sven Dudink any map already for the ending points of hoses where water is available? saw the one of 2018, but 2019 already looked different and i guess 2021 will be too.


CJ Yetman Tue 20 Jul 2021 7:57AM

no, definitely not.... @Sven Dudink will make sure that running water is available at a few points around site, but not at every Kiez! If a Kiez has a large water container that they would like to have filled up during build, then they can arrange with @Sven Dudink to bring a water hose to their camp to fill it up during build, but the hose will not be permanently installed at the Kieze for running water through out the event.


Roko Tue 20 Jul 2021 7:44AM

ok if i understand correctly, kieze will get a direct water connection aka a hose with a tap on it, right? so we don't really need that cube in the end.

and do u know how many cubes where in freiland storage that could not be used? maybe we can build something cool from this. saw a cube-floating raft on dragon burn :)


Purzel Mon 19 Jul 2021 9:49PM

The ones we found in storage had a closed lid for 2 years, the smell of one that we opened, quickly lead to an evecaution from the barn. I don't think you can use it again for drinking water 😉


Roko Mon 19 Jul 2021 9:26PM

ok, but we have to get ours out of freiland storage and bring it back again? or should we get rid of them because the future is no cubes?


Purzel Mon 19 Jul 2021 8:55PM

This year we won't fill up the water cubes with fresh water. They are all way to dirty for that.


Roko Mon 19 Jul 2021 8:37PM

a little bit off topic, but i have a question regarding IBC Cube tap adapters. 2019 our adapter didnt work and i am not sure how big this adapter should be aka if there is a special size i have to buy as a replacement. any leads? was a 1000L tank..


Purzel Mon 19 Jul 2021 7:22PM

Are you planning to extend the set up that freiland is providing us with?

For example in the direction towards first aid, which would be close to the gate, Feuerwehr, wellfare and many camps + freecamper.


Dr. med. Lisa-Marlen Rogmann Thu 8 Jul 2021 9:17PM

ok thanks, then we wait for the 16th and look from there...fingers crossed ;)!


Sven Dudink Thu 8 Jul 2021 7:18PM

@Dr. med. Lisa-Marlen Rogmann up untill now that is still uncertain, on 16th of juli freiland will have their own event, than all water will be rewired, up until than, its unclear where water will arrive


Dr. med. Lisa-Marlen Rogmann Thu 8 Jul 2021 2:17PM

@Sven Dudink thank you for taking over this important role! I am one of the camp leads of the cuddle puddle and in charge for the water. Is it already clear weather we can get laid these amazing water pipes to the campsites as two years ago?thx


Sven Dudink Tue 29 Jun 2021 6:39PM

Hi Chris, there is no current map yet, freiland has their event in the middle of juli, around that time the waternet will be build, so after that i cam answer your question, hehe no worrys, its not a stupid question


Chris Audax Tue 29 Jun 2021 6:07PM

Hi @Sven Dudink I just saw the current water map. Is there any option to have a water supply close to Mustopia and the Saloon? I dont know whether the planning and overview is final yet so forgive me for asking stupid questions :)


Sven Dudink Thu 24 Jun 2021 9:52PM

Hi friar
-there is not really a specific day, the earlier the better, but if we know you come a bit later we can put that in our scheduele, we need to full water capacity for round about 30 min to 1 hour to fill your cube,

-basically letting me know there is a cube will be helpfull

-i have an old manual from 2019 here made by the previous water realizer, Drinking water for the Kieze - Google Docs , it gives some intrcutions how to clean the cubes

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Friar Tuck (Ed) Thu 24 Jun 2021 9:14PM

Hi! @Sven Dudink I'm camping with KinderKiez and am helping to coordinate the filling of our 1000 L water tank. I have a few questions:

- is there a specific day/time we need to make sure our water tank is onsite?

- what do we need to do to make make sure the tank gets filled?

- anything else I need to know from you about getting the tank filled?



Sven Dudink Thu 24 Jun 2021 12:36PM

on the topic of greywater, this is a burning man installation, i don't know how much water this will evaporate, probably burning man rates are way way higher, but it might evaporate a liter or 2 per hour


Friso Thu 24 Jun 2021 7:55AM

Last time the Pirates and Zerzura shared a kitchen. I was working there every day carrying water down the hill, washing dishes and disposing greywater. It was kitchen sink water of 70 ppl. We would have needed a lot of surface area to evaporate it all in time, before the end of strike.

Having watersupply extending down from he hill to camps this year would be great.(there was a line going to a cube behind Zerzura at some point, that really helped alot)

I dont see an alternative to dumping the greywater in the ground. Maybe there is a way to seperate the soap and fat from it, but I have no idea how that would work.

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Veroca R. Sala Wed 16 Jun 2021 5:48PM

@Friso i know this thread looks like a joke but we are interested in your input about greywater


Veroca R. Sala Sat 12 Jun 2021 9:47PM

I guess you need to be in touch with the LNT Realizer for the greywater and all that (?) lemme know I can connect you @Sven Dudink


Sven Dudink Thu 10 Jun 2021 4:48PM

Hi Kate, thanks for updating, next week on spark i would like to take a look at the current conditions of the network, and if there is any need to improve, i think if needed there would be a possibility to help, eventually at or just before build, but as i have no idea what the condition of the network is, i also don't know yet how much work it would be


Kaliope Thu 10 Jun 2021 4:39PM

#FYI Hi there, I just spoke to Dilan from Freiland about the requirements from the Amt. Last time, they were told there could be a drinking water test (Trinkwasserprüfung). There is an option to flush through so it will be ok on an exam. Currently they do not have a stable drinking water network, in perspective certain areas still need to be dug in – but before July they have no resources. If necessary, can we support? Just to let you know, we're about to send the application for the permit soon and will update you on any eventualities :)


Cris Thu 29 Jul 2021 9:01AM

Another thing to consider: the evaporation ratio in the desert allows faster managing of the grey water. Meck-Pom won't be that efficient with that.


Veroca R. Sala Tue 29 Jun 2021 8:04PM

@Friso can we have a thread or update about LNT and grey water as for documentation for the future as well? Thanks


Sven Dudink Thu 24 Jun 2021 9:55PM

interesting, thanks for your input, as for now greywater will be taken care of by the LNT lead, so im not sure how this is solved this year, last year we had a truck with a big sceptic tank


Friar Tuck (Ed) Thu 24 Jun 2021 9:24PM

As someone who has been to the big burn and seen many iterations of gray water management, I can tell you that the amount of space needed for an evaporation pond is large. Depending on how its implemented it can also generate a fair amount of waste as many designs evaporate onto sheets of black plastic, which then get thrown out. Evap ponds can work for a small to mid sized camp with a shower or two and a small kitchen. But for bigger amounts of water usage its not practical. Kiddie pool is probably not big enough.


Sven Dudink Mon 7 Jun 2021 11:33AM

@bee that is very interesting, at this point i do not know very well yet how much greywater we create and what would be the evaporation rate in different weather circumstances, but to me it sounds like a very doable idea, especially when all camps have their own blow up kids pool for evaporation, and maybe a method to make the bottom of the pool as dark as possible to increase sun heat absorption


Bee Mon 7 Jun 2021 11:24AM

Heya. Just a thought on the greywater. I heard the desert burns (BM™) have a process of drying out grey water in the sun. For example I envision using something like my blow up kids pool (my Balkon Bad ;) ) which would spread out water thinly. If we are having proper Berlin summer heat for the days it may be possible to evaporate some/most/all of the grey water? Or am I too optimistic about German heat vs a real desert?


Poll Created Mon 7 Jun 2021 10:58AM

Will the water in 2021 Run, Flow or Jump Closed Sat 12 Jun 2021 11:00AM

by Sven Dudink Wed 16 Jun 2021 6:39PM

What a fantastic outcome, this year the water will flow, we are so happy with this amazing change, we will put our best scientists on figuring out how to accomplish that without compromising the delicious taste of Kiez Burns water, but i am very confident we will manage and give you the water you always dreamed of

Hugs & Love

Your power and water team

As we are all aware, last year the water on Kiez burn has been running, now this year @veroca suggested letting the water jump, of course a great idea but more work needs to be done to accomplish, now @CJ Yetman came with the revolutionary idea to let the water flow, what do you guys think would be the best way to go


Results Option % of points Voters
in 2021 the water should Flow 50.0% 5 CY EJ C B M
in 2021 the water should Jump 40.0% 4 VRS M AK N
in 2021 the water should Run 10.0% 1 SE
Undecided 0% 23 A MG CV J NF A CA S SR DN F A MO G S BRI C M C A

10 of 33 people have voted (30%)


CJ Yetman Mon 7 Jun 2021 12:48PM

I suppose jumping would be the fastest, depending on how high it jumps.


Sven E Mon 7 Jun 2021 12:07PM

When its run, it would be faster, or not?

So, maybe we could use tighter pipes and save money.

Because its the same amount of water with flowing water in bigger pipes or runing water in smaller ones.


Sven Dudink Mon 7 Jun 2021 11:11AM

maybe @The Lord of Fire (Schatzmeister) Could help with this? he has bin flowing for quite a while now



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CJ Yetman Mon 7 Jun 2021 11:06AM

If the water flows, we may need flow guides, otherwise it may flow to undesirable places.


Veroca R. Sala Mon 7 Jun 2021 10:57AM

yes, i think a poll is fair as to gather opinion from the community, eventually, this will go to advise process.... jumping water is also revolutionary, but also very convenient especially on hot days, to have some jumpy water splashing around might keep hippies nice and cool...


Sven Dudink Mon 7 Jun 2021 10:49AM

That is a very nice and revolutionairy plan, I think more research will be needed to see if we can realize this for this year

so as for now we will need to make the choice between: Jumping, running, or flowing water
its going to be a tough one but, I am confident we will figure this out


CJ Yetman Mon 7 Jun 2021 8:50AM

I'd prefer that it flow


Sven Dudink Sat 5 Jun 2021 7:51PM

we havnt decided yet, i think this would be decided by most voted, but in the past year the water was running,


Veroca R. Sala Fri 4 Jun 2021 5:10PM

will the water run or jump?