Sun 26 Jan 2020 10:59PM

Location: and then there were only 2 options...

W walto Public Seen by 148

Context: The location leads organized a meeting on Facebook. Following the kiez burn meeting guidelines, I am also providing the transparency on Talk here.

Meeting description

Following our meeting on the 7 January, 3 weeks on we will have a final meeting to finalise our options for our Kiez Burn location

Meeting roles


Who does it?



Note keeper


Time keeper

enter your name here


location: Berlin Burner Embassy - Otto-Braun-Straße 70, 10178 Berlin, Duitsland

If you have topics to add, either immediately edit the thread and add these in, or make a comment & ask to add it in the agenda. Practice consensual do-ocracy on this matter.


Time allocated

Introduction round

10-30 seconds per person

How we work together

10 minutes


??? minutes


Meeting notes

Google Docs:

Followup Call 4 Feb

To realign on development of Muckwar option and how to move toward a final decision. Meeting notes see Jan's post below -

Final community survey

The KB2020 location team wish to gather the broader voice of the community, reaching all the channels and put out a survey before the final decision will be made. The survey will be active until this Friday 21st February. It should take 2 mins to complete.


walto Thu 30 Jan 2020 9:42PM

@Giulia am I correct in saying the outcome of the meeting was that we keep the same date, but we choose between 2 locations? Maybe it might be worth clarifying that here further?

As an input for the next step in choosing between the 2 locations:


Erin Jeavons-Fellows Thu 30 Jan 2020 9:54PM


You can lock in Kiez Burn for the 16-21 June 2020

We will be proceeding with both Freiland and Kingdom of Mukwar.

  • Our preference is Kingdom of Mukwar for a variety of reasons (see meeting notes above)

  • Negotiations will begin with Mukwar and the Amt and we are to have final figures by next week (4th Feb)

  • 4th Feb we will do a group Zoom chat ( to check progress, go over numbers and make the proposal (link to come after meeting)

  • The decision will be made on Talk as it affects everyone and everyone will have an opportunity to have their say.

  • Location decision to be made by 11th Feb

There is more info to come. Keep an eye out over the next days!

Big thanks to both the location teams for being so active and making our Kiez Burn become a reality again for 2020



Jan Thomas Tue 4 Feb 2020 9:30PM

Summary from the 1hr call today to further check on Muckwar option and decide next steps towards finalisation. Attending were around 10 people from the location teams and Alex from Wilde Möhre / Muckwar.


1. Can we take water from the lake - Nope, it’s not drinking water, but it’s save to swim in

2. Is there a water tap anywhere close by?
 - currently there is no running water, there is the option to connect it again which is in process currently and might be ready by summer. Alternatively there is the option to connect to the nearest fire hydrant for water, like at Freiland or how Wilde Möhre do it

3. How would the transport of stuff in storage work - @Purzel can drive a huge truck and with a single load and a couple of carloads of people we can get everything transported in one go. New storage will be possible either on site or we will find something closeby.


Alex from Muckwar / Wilde Möhre enquired to better understand how we would utilise the space

  • He wanted to understand how we would use the land and help improve it, so that it does something for him too

  • Eg tidy up the house that could be used for living in, or create access & a beach setup for the lakes, or create permanent structures that could remain on the land

  • Alex looked at our last Freiland map and liked the idea of what we described


  • Permit-wise the status is good enough, final safety around having a permit with Freiland is also not happening until much later

  • Owners not yet having given final confirmation - Alex will prioritize calling the two owners (The farmer owning the large field, and the Ronny guy owning the forest) again ASAP this week to confirm once more they're happy to rent, and also for our intended date. After this point we would look to slowly further build the relationship with these guys, i.e. travel there to meet with them and get to know in person, negotiate final price (Alex is certain it won't be more than a couple of thousand euros each) and also create a written agreement.


  • There was discussion around how to get to a decision - should there be just a proposal to move to Muckwar, or a poll where people can vote for either Freiland or Muckwar?

  • Majority decision was that we need to make both options clear to the community in full, and let them vote for either - while also giving everyone the ability to ask more clarifying questions and bring up additional aspects that might not have been considered yet.

Outline of next steps agreed to achieve that:

  • @Erin Jeavons-Fellows & @Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) will create an online shared document with a structure to summarise all relevant aspects for both options

  • All members of the location group to add into it & get it ready for community review

  • We it share with community for feedback and questions ASAP this week

  • While Alex from WM gets 2nd confirmation from land owners in parallel

  • Once both of the above are sorted we run the poll, pushing it to the community on all available channels

Unfortunately we ran out of time and didn't agree an exact timeline for these steps... But I would say that latest around the start of next week (10 Feb) we need to launch the final location vote!


Saskia Thu 6 Feb 2020 8:04AM

Hei everybody. Here is the Location OVERVIEW + the rough sketch out for a proposal using the proposal template.

The aim of the overview is to summarize the scattered information for reference in the proposal.

At the bottom of the document you'll find the proposal template.

Please, edit & add. Especially the location scouts and very vocal people: @Andrea Paracucchi @Jan Thomas @Carsten @Purzel

Maybe some key figures from other areas can have a check on some open questions already, especially checking out the table which will be used to present condensed information in the proposal.

We would like to bring the proposal online by tomorrow, after having received more information from Kingdom of Muckwar, hopefully.

Please, also, forward the link to relevant peoples. Thanks.


Purzel Thu 6 Feb 2020 9:18AM

I did some changes already, but I would also like to add that the freiland neighbours are not pissed at us. We did have complaints but I wouldn't call the situation this bad. What do you think @Jan Thomas?

As far as I remember, at muckwar in one direction neighbors are 8km away with forest in between but in another direction they are much closer, I think under 1km but I don't remember the exact figures. Can someone else clarify?


Purzel Fri 7 Feb 2020 1:31PM

I'm not so familiar with how the doc is being changed and added so I'll post here.

There have been concerns about transporting offered centralized by kiezburn ev.

I still volunteer to be the driver for a central transport action.

I have worked in logistics and by packing proper/marking the material and objects, I'm confident we can transport without producing to much chaos.

I really like the idea that representatives from each camp join the transport day to make it more structured and reduce misunderstandings and mix ups. Sadly I see potential difficulties in scheduling such a day.

I propose that we put out the offer for transport and a date to the community and the camps whom are interested and able can join the action. The camps that prefer to do it themselves can organize the transport individually. With enough data we can after everyone applied decide what size of a truck we will need to save costs.


Erin Jeavons-Fellows Mon 17 Feb 2020 6:52PM

The KB2020 location team wish to gather the broader voice of the community, reaching all the channels and put out a survey before the final decision will be made. The survey will be active until this Friday 21st February at midnight. It should take 2 mins to complete.

Click here to give your feedback now!

Many thanks!

Location Team


Jan Thomas Thu 6 Feb 2020 10:14PM

Agreed! I adjusted the language to be less single-side regarding Freiland neighbors. Details about Muckwar distance from neighbors had already been added to the document :-)


walto Thu 6 Feb 2020 8:02PM

amazing! added the doc to the location folder in drive and made some notes/additions

One note of caution: I would shy away from writing the cost of either space publicly since that is often up for negotiation.


Saskia Thu 6 Feb 2020 8:08PM

I consider the cost of the Gelände to be an important information if one wants to make a decision for either two. BUT I see your point very much. I am a bit lost on how to deal with that in the moment. Leave this information undisclosed? Only let our Schatzmeister Alexxx mention weather he has a strong preference for on location because of the price? Only put in relatives ("X is estimated to be 3x as expensive as Y")?

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