[Open discussion] On popularity, organic growth, virgins, and inclusivity

Just for context… as far as I understand (as a Korg member for the last 2 KBs and significantly involved in other ways), the first-come-first-serve ticket sale was 100% driven by the short time frame, which was 100% driven by the covid situation. I hope / don’t believe that there is any organizational need or desire to ever do that again.

Having run a few lotteries, I think it's messy and not a very good process. It ends up being a gimmick and not much fairer than first come first served (FCFS).

I've also ran STEP and it's OK to eliminate the FB group selfie begging, but doesn't do much more. We had very little to no scalping to begin with according to the data we collected.

Having a quota of FCFS is important, I agree.

Yes to what @Kitt said. Perspective of someone who was "on the outside": I was a virgin this year. I had heard about KB from several people, but they were not close friends who would have directed me a ticket, so the open ticket sale was my "way in". If the only way to get a ticket was by replicating/directed ticketing, that would feel quite elitist and radically exclusive for self-discovering people like me.

The large contingent of people that fly halfway around the world for this, often with a radically different conception of what "burning" means than the euroburners, does occasionally disturb me. Then again I fly halfway around the world to go to Burning Man, and often have a radically different conception of "burning" from the US-burners. It does irk me when people who can afford to fly here complain about the price of a camp though, or excuse themselves from strike to get to their flight in time.

We had a quiz you had to answer "correctly" to buy a ticket to Borderland, and I think it was a fun way to highlight some things. It was mostly consent, LNT, and emotional self reliance related.

In the end there's no right way to burn, and we shouldn't force people to read like Hakim Bey before being allowed in. Even worse forcing people to read something a burner has written. No reading should be necessary to participate, be included, and burn.

Participation for some people is spreadsheets and technical drawings many months before, for others letting our neurodiverse brains sparkle on site, others again giving someone who needs it a hug.

Just realized I was halfway replying to @RMD with this flying stuff, apologies.

I think there's a real issue to be addressed with your first point and Talk. It's not at all easy to discover or get around in, and it doesn't really get much better with experience. I'm frequently exhausted and give up when faced with walls of more or less well written text (like the one I'm currently producing, it would seem). The other place you can find information is Facebook, and that's even worse. There are some alternative social media that might actually suit the community better.

Gosh I tried to write this in short but I simply cannot speak to each of your sentences concisely. Happy to take this up in real time sometime.

'Most people who can afford the trip could probably also afford a 100 eur to realize some art.'

Firstly, 'most people' is not inclusion, and if those people can afford 100 euro, great! Then for the people who cannot afford 100 euro and have a cool idea, it would be great to support them with an art grant-->more participation, more inclusion, more self expression. You can still have big art grants I am just suggesting a handful of micro art grants as a trial idea for next time, not set in stone forever.

Secondly, 100 euro is a lot of money for some people, and would make the difference between them being able to participate and bring art or not. And I don't think that people not having 100 euro spare should exclude them from coming to the burn, or getting to express themselves with art.

The thing about the regionals often is that you don't need to have hundreds and hundreds of dollars to participate, especially if it's your local burn. Many regionals have 'local' tickets that are discounted, and every burn I've heard of has 'low income' tickets of some kind to help participation, inclusion. I would encourage you to broaden your mind regarding the income levels and lifestyles of the burners that exist.

I understand the drive for incredible large-scale art, but if you're trying to recreate the feeling you felt at a different burn then I don't know what to tell you... a burn is not an art gallery, nor is it only a place for established default world artists to contribute their work. Big art does not make a better or more authentic experience for everyone. I would not want to see more 'big things' at the expense of 'more participants getting to realize art.' If you think there is an artist or an art type you would like to see, either create it yourself or fundraise to enable an artist like that to participate...

Every burn I've read the art-grant system for does it slightly differently. There is not a 'right' or 'wrong' way, but it is something that shapes and is shaped by that regional burn and its participants. Some fund workshops, some don't. Nowhere only funds art outside the camps (eg sculptures) and never structures whereas other burns might help fund materials to build a stage or bar... etc etc. I've never heard of just a 'tent for a camp' getting funded (have you?), and at KB there's no structure that's not publicly accessible that gets funded from art grants.... Also 'supplies for a workshop' no consumables are covered under art grants at KB either...

FWIW I'm not a fan of the dreams platform either. IIRC only 50% of people actually bother to vote, and tbh each individual burner doesn't necessarily know what they want when they read someone's proposal, but that's a whole other conversation.

Burning Nest builds on the camping culture of the UK birthed in events like Glastonbury, and many UK burners don't necessarily go to Spain for Nowhere... I don't know where you got that assumption from. There's loads of small-scale burns in the UK that have a lot of magic to them, and loads of unique camps and installations you'll only find there, especially because they include locals who might not want or be able to travel, for time or resources or age/ability or other responsibilities etc etc. These people are still burners, these events are still burns.

I also have no idea of what BMORG does (what's the decommodification vibes on reselling burner art? or the immediacy of making it a permanent installation?) and honestly it's an event that's 70x the size of this one, on the other side of the world, and exists in a completely different art industry. Why should burner art be permanent, that doesn't make it better or worse in the space of a temporary autonomous zone. I honestly don't think the regionals should necessarily care what Burning Man in the United States does. The principles are largely but not completely the same, but the scale of the event and the different terrain alone should mean there are different things to think about, to keep in mind.

What is unique and amazing about KiezBurn to you, and the burners and art at kiez burn? Would love to hear your thoughts on this. x

I like the idea of weekend warrior tickets. It would be interesting to know what is actually a percentage of the ppl this year who first came on Friday. What I am thinking is that it will get messy and won't be followed as strictly in the end: I am thinking about this year where half of our camp was delayed by 1-2 days because of the Bahn strike

I did not say material, but a promise of an action is better than just i was on time for ticket sales and had good internet connection. I know ppl this year who were in a important call when ticket sales started and did not get the ticket till the very last moment when squatters were selling their tickets last minute.

I am a firm believer in lotteries, I did not say all tickets should be sold this way, but general sale for a limited amount of tickets should always go through a lottery - it is a fair and effective way to distribute the tickets. It also stimulates ppl who really want to be there to get active so that they get a directed ticket and don't need to participate in the lottery.

I agree with most of this, but I don't think people's "value" should be determined in terms of what they materially bring or put into as an effort. If people are needed because they have skills to realize something, absolutely we should liberally direct to them, but not some kind of weighted lottery based on how much you promise up front. Magic is often spontaneous.

Wednesday is way too early to close gate, but maybe mid Friday? Maybe a special ticket you have to apply for weekend warriors that have a good reason?

Direct ticket allocation for theme camps + lottery for the rest would probably work better than first come first served.

I don't know, most people who can afford the trip could probably also afford a 100 eur to realize some art. I'd much rather fund big things, seeing people do impressive things makes me aspire to do similar things (and apply for that serious art grant). I went to Nest once and was really impressed with what some of the camps were putting up for such a small event, the reason of which I guess is because the same projects go to Nowhere later. Borderland only does this dreams platform thing, and is really not getting much art at the event because only has these small sums (and often the dream can be a tent for a camp, or supplies for a workshop). Burning Man funds big things, and those artists often sell the art later to be permanently displayed somewhere, which I assume BMORG gets a piece of to keep funding artists.