Thu 13 Jan 2022 10:43PM

(CLOSED) to distribute tickets for Kiez Burn 2022^H^H^H^H2023

K Kris Public Seen by 50


I've subjected a lot of people (@Jan Thomas @Caroline @Veroca R. Sala usw) to my raving about ticketing (i.e. "solicited advice"), and I'm now presenting it here for the remaining to constructively critique.

Since I'm a modern woman I'm doing it in the format of a placard newspaper* :

*no Ostalgie allowed!


Saskia Fri 14 Jan 2022 1:23PM

I am very much in favor of this system. I likey. I have no questions. I wish we could have done it for the Burn Night.


Kaliope Fri 14 Jan 2022 3:20PM

Praise to the mistress of exponential tickets! You have already perfected the art of neat presentation, punchy humor and getting sh*t done efficiently when working for the Burn Night, @Kris. The previous ticket presale platform has rocked, will there be a tricky questionnaire again?

On the point... Do you know this advice process template? The details are nicely outlined and visualized on Miro, this takes the advice process to a whole new level though!

Here are my five cents: Will there be a prioritization if we exceed the 200-300 tickets proposed for the first tier (secret replication sale) that directs tickets to e.V. members, KORGis, camp leads, realizers from the previous year, whoever the KORG can get their hands on – or can this first ticket contingent be flexibly adjusted (just in case we're more than 300 Kiezis in these groups)? Do you have any experience on whether this system has an impact on fewer international burners (with little contact in the Kiez Burn community) participating – the diversity point was mentioned, but that sounds a bit counterintuitive for me? (edit: with 1/3 of the total tickets being distributed in the raffle, this still sounds somehow radically inclusive...)

I'm excited to give it a try and trust that the system will lead to improve some things we are struggling with.... Keywords growth, fame and festival tourists. We first need a date before this can be kicked off. The tickets for the first (secret) round could also be issued as vouchers, if it is not yet clear how much they should cost in the end.


Meghan Sat 15 Jan 2022 11:07AM

This is a very interesting idea! But I'm not sure I'm understanding how the arithmetic is intended to work out...

Assuming for simplicity that we sell a total of around 1000 tickets again. If 300 eV members, korgis, realizers etc are first given tickets, then we're already up to 900 tickets after just one single step of "exponential growth" (ie after each of the 300 original ticket holders invites two more people). So then we're almost at full capacity already, even without the batch of raffle tickets and the batch of last-minute urgent tickets!

Or, if there are only 200 initial tickets given to eV members etc, then we're already up to 1400 tickets after two steps of replication (200+400+800).

I'm not suggesting that this is necessarily a bad result. But the graphics showed a whole lot of squiggly lines that made made me think a longer, more meandering replication process was intended. The way the numbers add up, it seems to me that the "secret sale" phase could easily sell out almost as quickly as the previous sales sold out.

I wonder if I'm misunderstanding something about how this is meant to work...


Caro T Sat 15 Jan 2022 12:51PM

Thank you for the wonderful presentation, really well structured and explained @Kris. Generally, I'm in favour of this ticket distribution system, especially with an eye on growing Kiez Burn to 2000 or 3000 participants eventually. I have a few questions for clarity:

  • Historical Question: Did we have key-burners struggle to get tickets last year or in the past? Or is this proposal solving a potential future risk?

    • At BRC the initial initiation of Directed Tickets was in response to vital or old camps not getting any or enough tickets in the raffle and an exponential rise in virgins. Did we have a similar problem already at Kiez Burn or is this hypothetical?

  • Logistical Queries: What happens to unused "personal invitation links"? What if I'm an e.V. member with no friends or simply an unorganised burner that never opens their emails?

    • would there be a time limit on how quickly you need to distribute your ticket links or would the links just slowly dust away in an Inbox?

    • On the flip side, what can I do if my most vital camp addition is a last-minute find and my personal-invite link has expired?

  • Class Struggle - High-Income vs Low-Income: Whilst I can easily imagine a "donate more you rich hippie" add-on to a ticket invite, I'm struggling to see how low-income applications fit into the model. Would I need a personal-invitation link before applying for a low-income ticket or would those come from a different ticket pot?


CJ Yetman Sun 16 Jan 2022 10:13AM

This sounds interesting, but I fail to see the purpose/benefit. Can you state clearly what is the reason for doing this / what benefit would we get from doing this versus any other known ticketing possibility?


Sadie Sun 16 Jan 2022 2:33PM

I really love the way you displayed the information! It made my brain so much happier to engage with it!

Some thoughts…

I like the organic word of mouth idea to grow our community for a few reasons

  • As the RAD team is building the Code of Conduct and implementing tools and resources to keep our communities safe(r), this organic growth allows us to build the community with people who have inferred trust.


Belonging Tickets

  • Perhaps we can have a group of Belonging tickets aside for BIPoC , Trans and Non-Binary, Disabled ect. tickets. We would have to create a set of self-identifying criteria that makes folks eligible for the belonging ticket.

  • The Belonging tickets are then able to have a # of tickets that can then be for some of their people. Building on Kris’s “having your people and your camp where you feel like can fully be yourself.”

  • To foster diversity, inclusion, and Belonging we have to create to open ourselves up to diversity folks, by making KB accessible and removing barriers. Tickets are a big way of doing this.


  • Once the advice process is over we have to be transparent about how the tickets are/ will be sold.

  • Diversity is not created by things happening in secret

Class Struggle - High-Income vs Low-Income & diversity

  • We have to have some way of offering lower income tickets.

  • The idea of “I want to invite this person and I'll subsidize x% of their ticket" could be very problematic. For example, I could not subsides someone else’s ticket, I don’t have the means to do that.

Belonging Tickets

  • Perhaps KB does some sort of fundraiser, or puts a section of the budget aside, or a combination of both to create a Belonging tickets fund. We can ask higher income burns to add on a donation to the belonging fund as part of the ticket sales.

  • Perhaps we have a set number of belonging tickers for free and a set number for 50% or something like this.


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Cris Mon 17 Jan 2022 6:41PM

Thank you for bringing up this nice proposal in such a cool format! Although, I don't want to read no more, next time please, make an animated video, or a podcast, that I can listen to while riding my long board through Tempelhof.

But actual comments would be:

  • Low income: it'd be nice to find a way to include them in the general process, so they don't skip the mouth to mouth system. Maybe with an extra link to a questionnaire/explanation why, and someone revisiting it at some point or several points? Those kind of options to spend more on your ticket to support extra low income tickets, or jus buying a ticket for a friend seem cool, but I don't know if they actually have any impact, how much are they used.

  • I'd be up for setting a quota for inclusivity, to promote more diversity in our community.

  • 2 details that I find very useful and missing in this cool advice process are: deadline (when is this ending and when will a decision be made?) And who's gonna implement it (I guess you? 😁)


Sadie Mon 17 Jan 2022 10:52PM

@Cris or others who were around last year.... is there a thread on talk related to previous ticket sales (I get super lost trying to find stuff in talk sometimes)?


walto Wed 19 Jan 2022 9:31PM

Ticketing is a great tool to effectively include new people, from a more diverse background.

In Miro the proposal showed 66% tickets for the in-crowd with only 1/3rd for "the stranger with the new ideas".

It is always about finding the best balance between the principles of inclusion and community, particularly when deciding on tickets. As a reference: in 2019+2020, we allocated about 20% of tix to dreams & kieze.

I believe a minimum of 66% of tickets open to new people would be more fitting.

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