talk.kiezburn.org
Wed 14 Feb 2024 12:28PM

What is a child?

K Kris Public Seen by 65

Title: use clear & easy words. Ideally open-ended in the form of a question

This advice process is about... a very short summary of the proposal (example)

Proposer

Proposer (name, handle, etc.):

@kris

Proposer’s role:

Tickets

The advice process

Information gathered before posting

None

People/roles most affected by this proposal

Parents, kinder kiez.

People/roles with the most knowledge and experience relevant to this proposal:

Parents, kinder kiez, the board.

The proposal

Background

To this day we've sold free "child tickets" without having defined what constitutes "a child". It's (apparently??) been left up to the person buying the ticket and whichever volunteer works the gate when they arrive.

The proposal

A child is under 16 years of age at the start of the event.

How would the proposal be implemented

I add some text on the ticketing website.

Who would implement this proposal

I'll do it.

When would this proposal be implemented

Ideally, yesterday.

What would be the cost (time, money, effort, etc.) of this proposal

4.50

What are the advantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)

2m tall man-children who never grew up will not get in for free.

What are the disadvantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)

2m tall man-children who never grew up will not get in for free.

Decision

Yes

AK

Alex Kaos Wed 14 Feb 2024 12:37PM

Thanks for spinning this up.

I think it's a fair point, and we should implement it, even if just to have this clearly decided.

For affected parents with children aged 16-17

  • It could be an additional financial burden, but a better representation of the footprint

  • A legal guardian will still have to be present at the event

For all parents:

  • Proof of legal guardianship will be required at gate to get a wristband and entrance to the event.

CY

CJ Yetman Wed 14 Feb 2024 2:58PM

My main thought here is… it would be advantageous, or at least easier, if the definition of “child” in terms of whether they get a free ticket was aligned with whatever we call a human that requires a guardian to attend.

K

Kris Fri 16 Feb 2024 6:41PM

Yes, as @Robert pointed out there should probably also be a waiver for everyone covered under the Jugendschutzgesetz. Someone from the board should probably figure out the actual legalities here and the form template

J

Jessie Wed 14 Feb 2024 4:28PM

Thanks for the proposal. Maybe we could define child as a person under 18? Makes it maybe easier?

RM

Raccoon Manners Wed 14 Feb 2024 4:32PM

@Jessie not really, because a 16-17 year old has pretty much the same footprint at the event as a 25 year old. And 16-17 are allowed some extra things, for example to drink in Germany

J

Jessie Wed 14 Feb 2024 11:02PM

@Raccoon Manners I totally get your point but I assume, a 15 year old also has the same footprint. Where to draw a line? And yes, maybe they are allowed to drink but still count as Teenagers and not adults and need guardiance of an adult.

I like the idea of @Robert as well.

R

Robert Wed 14 Feb 2024 6:39PM

We can separate between kids ticket and legal minors but this implies than making sure that regular ticket holders under legal age have a Guardian with them in accordance to §2 Abs. 1 Jugendschutzgesetz.

AL

Adrian Luz Fri 16 Feb 2024 11:36AM

Hi, I just saw this pass by, here's my opinion:

- If a child is a young person who is not capable of taking care of themselves alone.

- If by law, said person is not old enough to work to be able to be self-sustainable, and much less buy a ticket, and the parents have to take care of and monitor them, then yes, that person is a child.

- A teenager who can work, at least around the home or in the community to save enough money, perhaps that person should be able to buy a 'discounted' ticket.