talk.kiezburn.org
February 8th, 2019 13:11

What is our theme for KB19?

Erin Jeavons-Fellows
Erin Jeavons-Fellows Public Seen by 135

Here is a short-list of our Theme options for Kiez Burn 2019.

You can vote on multiple options, if they take your fancy. So long as you are happy and excited by the results, let any number of these options take your fancy.

Your votes will be anonymous, this is to make sure that you can vote for any option, and not just the one your friend asked you to vote for.

In order to keep things fair, we're not adding new voting options to this poll, as late-comers in the last poll caused discussion over fairness and now we're doing a new one. With advice from those who shared, we've taken the top 4 results of the last poll (because 3rd place was tied).


Background information for themes

Wild at heart
Who are you? Truly?
This embodies our adventurous move to a more decentralized and self-reliant event and community. We can embrace our new culture and support one another at our deepest cores. What is really important to us, once all the trappings and distractions are away?
Let's remove all the comforts of modern traditions, cultures and civilizations, and rebuild our collective from the self-out. A giant Tribe that looks out for each other on our quest to heal the damaged done by the rapid evolution of our species.
You truly are already you. Welcome home.
(f.y.i. The Effigy Team (same as last year's Effigy) has made a beautiful Effigy plan already built around this Theme)

Midsummer Nightmare
This theme is a nod to both the summer solstice and the horror of first time decentralization (Org nightmare)! Let's celebrate the precious few hours of darkness that are the heart of Kiez Burn with a theme that puns upon the Shakespeare play "A Midsummer Night's Dream", but is even more fun. Midsummer Nightmare is chock full of possibilities: naughty fairies, dark horses, creepy misfits, Amazons, humans with animal heads, illusions in the woods, and comedic ceremonial confusion! (What will be the "Wrecking Ball" blooper for 2019?)

Heimat
"Heimat" is an ironic take on quite a few things
Not only does it show that we're coming home (the burns being our natural environments) and not "going crazy once or twice a year", it also plays on traditional associations. "Heimat" would be associated with oompa oompa music, Bierzelt, weird traditions, rampant sexism and xenophobia. By assuming the title we're turning it on its head.
It's also food for thought on a greater societal discussion. I don't want to go into it too much, but on a socio-political level it offers a lot of space for interpretation. (Identity, Location, Nationality, Heritage, etc etc), hence preparing the ground for art to happen
It ain't english. Which is not a bad thing at all.

Do-Topia
I think, given the decentralization, I'd rather hit everybody IN THE FACE with the news that they have to get their asses moving.
That's basically it.

I want to be able to point at the theme, laugh out aloud and then leave when somebody or someone is complaining about anything.

It's a future investment for all highly invested but 'not carrying your ass anymore' peoples.

If you think this is overly pragmatic & the intention a bit cynic for a theme for Kiez Burn - you are probably right. :)

Erin Jeavons-Fellows

Erin Jeavons-Fellows started a poll February 8th, 2019 13:26

What is our theme? Closed 7:00pm - Friday 22 Feb 2019

Ive added the initial ones from the minutes. Add more as you like and vote

28 - Wild at Heart
3 - Dream Big
3 - Asylum: lunatics taking over
7 - Lost island
10 - Heimat (Not escape, but coming home)
14 - Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
10 - Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
7 - Deep sea mysteries
4 - Ancient aliens
5 - Inside the Computer
2 - Trans Form
2 - Wild Dreams
2 - United Dreamers
Erin Jeavons-Fellows

Erin Jeavons-Fellows February 8th, 2019 13:37

Ive added the initial ones from the minutes. Add more as you like and vote!

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator)

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) February 8th, 2019 13:51

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator)

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) February 8th, 2019 13:52

Dream Big
Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Erin Jeavons-Fellows

Erin Jeavons-Fellows February 8th, 2019 13:56

KB is the weekend of summer solstice. Is there a poetic theme around midsummer nights dream or enchantment we could follow also? Just trying to spark ideas :)

Bobschi

Bobschi February 8th, 2019 14:38

Wild at Heart
Lost island
Erin Jeavons-Fellows

Erin Jeavons-Fellows February 8th, 2019 16:12

Lost island
Wild at Heart
Jaina Hirai

Jaina Hirai February 8th, 2019 17:10

Wild at Heart
Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Clément Marchand Le Poittevin

Clément Marchand Le Poittevin February 8th, 2019 18:28

Should the minds behind the themes add in the details of the thread a quick description of each theme, to facilitate understanding and voting?

Dylan (Lemon Camp)

Dylan (Lemon Camp) February 9th, 2019 08:28

Ancient aliens
Deep sea mysteries
Dylan (Lemon Camp)

Dylan (Lemon Camp) February 9th, 2019 08:36

Deep sea mysteries
Ancient aliens
Inside the Computer
The Lord of Fire (Schatzmeister)

The Lord of Fire (Schatzmeister) February 9th, 2019 10:24

Wild at Heart

"Wild at Heart"
-This embodies our adventurous move to a more decentralized and self-reliant event and community. We can embrace our new culture and support one another at our cores. What is really important to us, once all the trappings and distractions are away?
Let's remove all the comforts of modern traditions, cultures and civilizations, and rebuild our collective from the self-out. A giant Tribe that looks out for each other on our quest to heal by bringing balance back into the world.

Clément Marchand Le Poittevin

Clément Marchand Le Poittevin February 9th, 2019 12:21

Wild at Heart
Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator)

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) February 9th, 2019 12:47

Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Dream Big
Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
Annette

Annette February 11th, 2019 16:35

Wild at Heart
Dream Big
Hanna-Maija (Animal)

Hanna-Maija (Animal) February 11th, 2019 16:47

Wild at Heart
Philipp Graf

Philipp Graf February 11th, 2019 16:56

Inside the Computer
Ancient aliens
Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
Daniel

Daniel February 11th, 2019 18:03

Heimat (Not escape, but coming home)
CJ Yetman

CJ Yetman February 11th, 2019 18:51

Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
Asylum: lunatics taking over
CJ Yetman

CJ Yetman February 11th, 2019 18:54

Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
Karlo Walz

Karlo Walz February 12th, 2019 05:36

Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Bandit (Sparklepony Lead / Kinder Kiez Lead)

Bandit (Sparklepony Lead / Kinder Kiez Lead) February 12th, 2019 06:21

Lost island
Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
T

tsundee February 12th, 2019 08:07

Wild at Heart
Lost island
Asylum: lunatics taking over
Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)

I am missing the option "transform" (maybe spell it "Trans Form", looks cool), and the option "dream" (without the big). Don't see how to add it.

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator)

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) February 12th, 2019 09:24

@zan Directly under the poll / the colored bars to the right there is a (in my german version here) 'Abstimmungsoptionen hinzufügen'

Sarah Schwarz

Sarah Schwarz February 12th, 2019 09:53

Wild at Heart
Lars

Lars February 12th, 2019 09:55

Wild at Heart
Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Nadja Fuhrmann

Nadja Fuhrmann February 12th, 2019 09:56

Wild at Heart
K

Kewan February 12th, 2019 10:49

Wild at Heart
P

Pablo February 12th, 2019 11:37

Wild at Heart
Erin Jeavons-Fellows

Erin Jeavons-Fellows February 12th, 2019 12:59

@zan I added the 'Trans Form' option for you :)
I liked this one too! I think it was mentioned in the meeting.

Till Tailor

Till Tailor February 12th, 2019 14:29

Wild at Heart
Quentin feugere

Quentin feugere February 12th, 2019 15:22

Wild at Heart
Alfred Raphael Quack

Alfred Raphael Quack February 12th, 2019 15:38

Asylum: lunatics taking over
Wild at Heart
Lost island
Ancient aliens
JCK

JCK February 12th, 2019 17:28

Wild at Heart

Wild wild west 🔥🤠

Richard Hodkinson

Richard Hodkinson February 12th, 2019 19:56

Ancient aliens
Richard Hodkinson

Richard Hodkinson February 12th, 2019 19:57

but wild at heart is so lame and generic! Come on, the other ones, please...

Gabor

Gabor February 12th, 2019 21:43

Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
F

Fiete February 12th, 2019 22:54

Deep sea mysteries
Wild at Heart
Heimat (Not escape, but coming home)
Tibo

Tibo February 13th, 2019 10:44

Dream Big
Aleks

Aleks February 13th, 2019 11:01

Wild at Heart
Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Heimat (Not escape, but coming home)
Bandit (Sparklepony Lead / Kinder Kiez Lead)

Bandit (Sparklepony Lead / Kinder Kiez Lead) February 13th, 2019 11:21

lol "wild at heart" looks like something to find on a housewife's wall in her kitchen along with a dogeared copy of "Eat, Pray, Love", and a plan to move to Tuscany and open a souvenir shop. 😂
I'll run with the Wild part. 👍

Bandit (Sparklepony Lead / Kinder Kiez Lead)

Bandit (Sparklepony Lead / Kinder Kiez Lead) February 13th, 2019 11:22

😍😂😂😂😂

Till Tailor

Till Tailor February 13th, 2019 17:06

Yay.. I get it... but I hate Nightmares, Lunatics-Asylums, Aliens... and Lost Island sounds like the next PiratesofCarribeans-Episode... So I changed my vote to Heimat! And of course your WildatHeart-critique is valid for this one too... :-)

JF

Julian Finn February 13th, 2019 18:56

So here's my case for "Heimat" which I proposed:
- "Heimat" is an ironic take on quite a few things
- Not only does it show that we're coming home (the burns being our natural environments) and not "going crazy once or twice a year", it also plays on traditional associations. "Heimat" would be associated with oompa oompa music, Bierzelt, weird traditions, rampant sexism and xenophobia. By assuming the title we're turning it on its head.
- It's also food for thought on a greater societal discussion. I don't want to go into it too much, but on a socio-political level it offers a lot of space for interpretation. (Identity, Location, Nationality, Heritage, etc etc), hence preparing the ground for art to happen
- It ain't english. Which is not a bad thing at all.

JF

Julian Finn February 13th, 2019 18:57

Heimat (Not escape, but coming home)
Karlo Walz

Karlo Walz February 13th, 2019 20:07

Heimat (Not escape, but coming home)
Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Quentin feugere

Quentin feugere February 13th, 2019 20:10

More than a (final) name, we are choosing on a theme. We could keep the theme/concept of "wild at heart"- which seems to be the preferred one from the vote - and just adapt the name to something a bit less 'housewife' :)
What do you think ?

JCK

JCK February 13th, 2019 22:29

Wild at Heart
Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Heimat (Not escape, but coming home)

Wild wild west 🔥🤠

Helena

Helena February 14th, 2019 06:33

Wild at Heart
Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Shay Erov

Shay Erov February 14th, 2019 08:16

Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Inside the Computer
Erin Jeavons-Fellows

Erin Jeavons-Fellows February 14th, 2019 21:52

Hello everyone. We spoke tonight in the precompression kick off the theme for KiezBurn 2019 should be chosen by the 22nd which is the evening of the dreams platform kick off. I have adjusted the poll to reflect this. Everyone please vote!

Mareike

Mareike February 15th, 2019 02:02

Wild at Heart
Bobschi

Bobschi February 15th, 2019 12:39

Heimat (Not escape, but coming home)
Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
Bobschi

Bobschi February 15th, 2019 12:39

Sold. Changed my vote, I like this perspective a lot.

Johannes Bittner

Johannes Bittner February 15th, 2019 23:35

Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Till Tailor

Till Tailor February 16th, 2019 08:12

Wild at Heart
Heimat (Not escape, but coming home)
Kaja Dominika

Kaja Dominika February 16th, 2019 21:52

Kaja Dominika

Kaja Dominika February 16th, 2019 21:53

Lost island
Deep sea mysteries
Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator)

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) February 17th, 2019 10:47

Making my stand for the do-topia topic:
I think, given the decentralization, I'd rather hit everybody IN THE FACE with the news that they have to get their asses moving.
That's basically it.

I want to be able to point at the theme, laugh out aloud and then leave when somebody or someone is complaining about anything.

It's a future investment for all highly invested but 'not carrying your ass anymore' peoples.

If you think this is overly pragmatic & the intention a bit cynic for a theme for Kiez Burn - you are probably right. :)

Anna Schwarz

Anna Schwarz February 18th, 2019 10:04

Heimat (Not escape, but coming home)
Cris

Cris February 18th, 2019 10:32

Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
Inside the Computer
Deep sea mysteries

Personally, I go for the topics I think will be easier/funnier to transform into costumes, deco and games, rather than those who are more of an abstract meta-description of our intentions. But if we go meta-abstract, it'd be also a fun challenge!

Daniel Regev

Daniel Regev February 18th, 2019 10:40

Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator)

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) February 18th, 2019 10:55

Dream Big
Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator)

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) February 18th, 2019 11:00

Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Dream Big
Trans Form
F

Frank February 18th, 2019 11:42

Wild at Heart
Lost island
DU

[deactivated account] February 18th, 2019 11:52

Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Asylum: lunatics taking over
Gabor

Gabor February 18th, 2019 15:07

Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Sophie Meinz

Sophie Meinz February 18th, 2019 17:07

Wild at Heart
Deep sea mysteries
Joice Biazoto

Joice Biazoto February 18th, 2019 18:32

Wild at Heart
Heimat (Not escape, but coming home)
Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
JF

Julian Finn February 18th, 2019 21:30

I want to propose that we choose the two or three top themes and make another poll with them. right now "wild at heart" has the most votes but only about 35% overall. just want to prvent a theme that the majority disagrees with.

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator)

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator) February 19th, 2019 10:03

I like the idea. Also setting this next vote up as a ranked choice or dot vote instead of simple majority vote which provide more granular results. But that's just my suggestion (& I will not put up the 2nd vote).

The Lord of Fire (Schatzmeister)

The Lord of Fire (Schatzmeister) February 19th, 2019 11:03

Seeing as we're fusing statistics and opinions here, let's get the numbers straight:
-At this point 54% of 80 people have voted. That's 43 people
- 23 votes have gone to "wild at heart", that's 54% of the voters (not 35%).
- the event will host 1000 people, so if everyone who came into this thread voted, the decision made would entail 8% of the whole burn, which is very far from a majority
- the next runner up 'do-topia' got 13 votes = 30% of the voters like it.
- that makes a lead of 66%, or what could otherwise be known as 'statistically significant'
- because users can vote for multiple options this is already similar to a 'dot vote' system.

I personally think this look pretty clear. But (disclaimer alert) I voted for 'Wild at Heart". Who knows how I would portray this information if the idea I didn't vote for was clearly on top.
To the best of my knowledge, my previous statements are factual. Feel free to correct me if I made a mistake there.

A

Alina February 19th, 2019 12:08

A

Alina February 19th, 2019 12:09

Deep sea mysteries
Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
Wild at Heart
JF

Julian Finn February 19th, 2019 12:09

i'm not even advocating for or against a particular theme. i was however confused because i assumed that everybody just had one vote and not multiple. (hence 23 being 35% of the votes, not the voters) in any case i'd still stick with my proposal to do a runoff between the top two or three themes

Juli Finster

Juli Finster February 19th, 2019 13:20

Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Wild at Heart
Deep sea mysteries
Janniná Kluge

Janniná Kluge February 19th, 2019 17:09

Wild at Heart
Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Joy Hei

Joy Hei February 19th, 2019 18:18

Wild at Heart
Lost island
F

Fiete February 19th, 2019 21:11

Maybe it would also be possible to merge the top three or so :thinking:

Carolin Dandara

Carolin Dandara February 20th, 2019 12:45

Jaina Hirai

Jaina Hirai February 20th, 2019 22:33

Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it
Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
Wild Dreams
Heimat (Not escape, but coming home)
Jaina Hirai

Jaina Hirai February 20th, 2019 22:34

Wild Dreams
Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy)
Wild at Heart
Henrik 🤖

Henrik 🤖 February 21st, 2019 19:23

United Dreamers
Henrik 🤖

Henrik 🤖 February 21st, 2019 19:34

the votes are biased, because entries added later in the poll didn't get the same visibility as the first couple of options. What if someone added an option a few hours before the poll closes? There is no chance to notify everyone who participated to consider this new option as well.

also: "Wild at Heart" got an unfair advantage, as it was proposed in the Kickoff meeting in front of a mid-sized audience right after the announcement that we actually are looking for a theme. No dismissing the Top 1 choice here (although I have this image of Jeff Bridges throwing a horny look at me every time I hear this phrase), but the voting wasn't fair among all the options.

There is no disadvantage to postponing the actual decision by a week or two.

waldo

waldo February 21st, 2019 23:03

I want to postpone my vote

waldo

waldo February 21st, 2019 23:06

I voted for postponement

Karlo Walz

Karlo Walz February 21st, 2019 23:30

I see „wild at heart“ sounds for me childish. Is this important? No!
The theme is not important for me and others too but it is a bit of a sisappointment that this theme looks line a slogan for an advertisment for smoking or drinking gin or a club med.
it is a „want to be statement“ similar line - if you will join you will be wild at heart snd you can tag yourself like this. you do not need to do something you can be proud it us enough to join kiezburn.
no- i don‘t lkne this hheme
no it is not important for me!

Quentin feugere

Quentin feugere February 22nd, 2019 01:39

How about merging your ideas above :
We (1) postpone the decision (2) do a second round of vote with the top 3 to 5 themes from the first round and (3) do this poll on the FB group so we get way more people voting and be more inclusive.

waldo

waldo February 22nd, 2019 18:39

Our philosophy is "consensual do-ocracy".
- Anyone should be able to make any decision regarding Kiez Burn (like the theme)
- However, before you make a decision, you must ask advice from those who will be impacted by that decision, and those who are experts on that subject (like this poll)
- Assuming that you follow this process, and honestly try to listen to the advice of others, that advice is yours to evaluate and the decision yours to make.

I think it's great we started discussing the topic instead of waiting till just before the event as we did before. However, it seems the advice needs further fine-tuning and we should refrain from taking a decision too quickly, or?

The Lord of Fire (Schatzmeister)

The Lord of Fire (Schatzmeister) started a proposal February 25th, 2019 17:28

Do we re-vote on the Theme for KB 2019? Closed 5:00pm - Thursday 28 Feb 2019

Outcome
by Henrik 🤖 March 1st, 2019 17:14

[propsal outcome by Alex]
Ok Guys. It looks like we have minor majority. In the interest of widening the argument it seems wise to re-vote on the Theme along with the release of the Dreams Platform and the first few Newsletters, giving everyone a chance to vote (and re-vote if they choose).
It appears there are more voices interested in a 'limited selection' vote as opposed to Henrik's Block suggestion. (do we do another poll to decide on who get's to be in the final selection? I'm all for fairness, but part of that is recognizing that hungry participants who are committed early generally contribute more than those late to the game).

Let's roll this thing out again. Multiple votes per person actually makes sense, as if you would be happy with 2 of the options you should be able to choose them.
[end of proposal outcome by alex]

[comment by henrik]
In the name of nitpicky fairness, I'd like to comment on this outcome.

It looks like we have minor majority.

not true. almost two thirds of the people who made a decision (or actually care) about this voted for a re-vote. that's a major majority.

It appears there are more voices interested in a 'limited selection' vote as opposed to Henrik's Block suggestion.

we don't know that. If you give people the option to decide between option A or B, only a very small percentage - if any at all - will go for option C. You don't know how many people prefer this suggestion unless you make it an actual option.

And why is there no way to straightforward way to comment on proposal outcomes?
:thinking:
[end of henrik's comment]

PLEASE READ

Here are the results from our initial Poll. 50 people voted. These results are percentages of Voters, as voters could vote for multiple themes (i.e. 28/50 = 56% of voters voted for this option)

1 - Wild at Heart - 56%
2 - Do-topia - Utopia, but WE make it - 28%
3 - Heimat (Not escape, but coming home) - 20%
3 - Midsummer Nightmare (Dark Faeries, Tim Burton creepy) - 20%
4 - Lost Island - 14%
4 - Deep sea mysteries - 14%
5 - Inside the Computer - 10%
6 - Ancient aliens - 8%
7 - Asylum: lunatics taking over & Dream Big- 6%
8 - Trans Form, Wild Dreams, United Dreamers - each 4%

Not everyone was satisfied with these results. And as a Brit from the 'remain' camp, I wish to support those that feel they've been fucked over by the voting process.
- 5% (50) of this years total burn population voted in this Theme poll, which is about double the amount that voted on last years theme.

YES = Take the top 4 and run with them
NO = I can read the statistics, why are we doing this?

Also, leave a comment if you think we should Vote on Here or on Facebook (in the event we do re-vote). I don't think we can run both.
- Pro's of Facebook = More reach
- Pro's of Talk = Higher quality votes from more reliable Participants. We can also use this to move more users onto Talk (which we will need for effective organization of the event)

Results
Agree - 16
Abstain - 6
Disagree - 6
Block - 1
28 people have voted (32%)
CJ Yetman

CJ Yetman
Agree
February 25th, 2019 17:32

The Lord of Fire (Schatzmeister)

The Lord of Fire (Schatzmeister)
Disagree
February 25th, 2019 17:39

I see clear landslide. But would prefer to see the re-vote done on Talk.

Hanna-Maija (Animal)

Hanna-Maija (Animal)
Disagree
February 25th, 2019 17:40

Erin Jeavons-Fellows

Erin Jeavons-Fellows
Agree
February 25th, 2019 18:04

Voting on fb would include more people

Nadja Fuhrmann

Nadja Fuhrmann
Disagree
February 25th, 2019 18:06

Clément Marchand Le Poittevin

Clément Marchand Le Poittevin
Disagree
February 25th, 2019 18:19

I think the voting system, although not perfect, was good and let people the possibility to change their vote if they wished to, as some did.
Wild at Heart has roughly double the votes of the second theme proposal, this is imo a clear enough lead and indicator of the wish of the community!
If we do end up revoting, I would say it's best to vote on Talk, as people take more time to make themselves a well enough matured decision than on a FB poll :)

Daniel Regev

Daniel Regev
Agree
February 25th, 2019 18:21

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator)

Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator)
Agree
February 25th, 2019 19:13

I do understand statistics but I also do know the dreadful 'Methodenlehre'. And in fact the original polling set up was biased and skewed. The reasons for this have been outlined by Hendrik & Waldo & a couple of others.

I would also like to poke the community and friends to vote for the topic here on loomio because fuck the FB group. People are looking podcast interview partners there. Why should they have a say in the theme of an event they don't attend at?
Pfffffff.

waldo

waldo
Agree
February 25th, 2019 19:16

let's vote again, but PLEEAAAASE keep it on Talk. We want to pull more people to talk and facebook is just a mess really.... and bad for polling (I can share an article on this later how the option that gets the most votes in the first hour, almost always wins, whatever the options)

Gabor

Gabor
Agree
February 25th, 2019 20:51