insurance conditions - what do we need or want

O Owl Public Seen by 73

I've got first feedback from the insurance broker. Prices haven't changed from last year. He offered their own liability insurance, but I have asked back to make sure it will also include the burn of an effigy (that wasn't the case in the past year, so we needed a different, more expensive insurance company).
If the event isn't happening, the insurances for liability and tech will be cancelled automatically and refunded. An cancellation insurance will still cost money, depending on the date. And a cancellation because of Corona (outbreak) is excluded, but it is unclear to me yet, if also the cancellation by the authorities because of a general high number of corona cases is also excluded. I'll update when I get details.

In the best case (we can use the cheap liability insurance and use the same choice of insurances like 2019) we'll pay up to 166€ for >750 visitors, and 142€ for <100k of tech.

The cancellation insurance will cost based on ticket sales and would cover loss of location, infrastructure (water), loss of third party services (e.g. security), it might also cover extreme weather (danger for life, or location unusable), direct terror or threat of terror, or grief because of death of crew or visitor, or because of an Assassination in Germany.

I've also requested the numbers for an accident insurance for build/strike, and for visitors. We didn't had that in the past, but I think civic responsibility also includes helping people who suffer because of an accident happening at Kiez Burn (beyond the limits of the health insurance).

That's what I have now. I'll attach the detail information (in German) from the insurance broker.

Dusty Hugs

P.S.: For reference, the original answer by Mr. Höhne:

Hallo Herr Weßels,

wir drücken die Daumen dass im Sommer wieder irgendwas möglich sein wird. An unseren Beitragssätzen hat sich nichts geändert. Sofern die Verbrennung des Kunstwerks vom Risiko überschaubar bleibt können Sie für die Haftpflichtversicherung mit den Beiträgen in beiliegender Produktinformation rechnen.

Corona oder andere übertragbare Krankheiten sind als Ausfallgrund nicht mehr versicherbar. Tatsächlich empfehlen wir eine bestmögliche Vertragsgestaltung mit sämtlichen Partnern ohne Stornokosten oder zumindest mit einer sehr wohlwollenden Stornokostenvereinbarung. Die Haftpflicht- und Technikversicherung würde Ihnen bei Risikofortfall komplett erstattet werden und die Ausfallversicherung würde anteilig erstattet werden (der bereits versicherte Zeitraum bliebe beitragspflichtig).

Beiliegend alle Übersichten und Anfrageformulare. Bei Fragen wie immer gern fragen.

Viele Grüße
Mark Höhne
Versicherungsmakler KG


Kaliope Sun 11 Jul 2021 1:35PM

The insurance fee will be cheaper if we can calculate the maximum amount of people that will be on site on a given day. Otherwise the maximum for build will be 200 per day and for the event about 1000 – anyone has an opinion if/how we can do this? Many people are probably still not sure when they will arrive. Does it make sense to play with some numbers or to do a poll on this? @Professor Kaos

Edit: Build & strike don't count, only numbers for the main event are relevant


Diarmaid Mon 28 Jun 2021 12:50PM

Too fast for me :D

Early Entry and Dreamers - there are going to be a number of dreamers who will need to be on the site for build. I was directed to discuss that here.

We don't have any actual numbers yet, we should have them after the 4th of July, once all the dreams funding has been allocated. But we had reserved up to 49 spots for dreamers on build, and now it seems like this has been lost somewhere. So how many spaces do we have, and what are the conditions for dreamers to be able to go to build? Do you need to be fully vaccinated?


Owl Fri 5 Mar 2021 9:22AM

Thanks for the translations!

I have a first response to my questions. The cancellation for Corona is not covered in general, so only weather and other stuff remains. In this case I suppose that our community and the event is resilient enough that we probably don't need an insurance for the other probable causes of cancellations.
So, if we keep with one mayor effigy burn, we can take the cheap insurance. And apparently we can't have an insurance for self-inflicted accidents for participants, only for build/strike. I'll followup on that, but since our roles during build/strike are pretty fluid, we might end up with high numbers ...

Dusty Hugs

ich glaube die Circles Group mussten wir seinerzeit nehmen, weil es so viele Teilnehmer/Installationen mit Feuer gab. Das war der AXA dann doch zu heiß. Aber bei einem nur durch den Veranstalter und die Feuerwehr kontrolliertem Feuer passt das schon. Wir versichern ja auch Veranstaltungen mit Osterfeuer usw.

 Der Ausschluss der übertragbaren Krankheiten geht in der Ausfallversicherung vor. Die behördliche Absage durch alles, was nicht ausgeschlossen ist, ist versichert. In jedem Fall wird jegliche Absage im Zusammenhang mit Corona weiter ausgeschlossen bleiben. Da sind alle Versicherer sehr klar und deutlich.

 Eine Unfallversicherung für die Besucher gibt es in dem Sinne nicht (mit Ausnahme für Exoten wie Motorsportveranstaltungen oder Extremsport). Durch den Veranstalter verschuldete Personenschäden sind Sache der Veranstaltungshaftpflichtversicherung. Eine Gruppenunfallversicherung für die Mitarbeiter können wir anbieten. Für wie viele Personen sollte diese sein? Können Sie die Anzahl bitte in körperlich tätig/Technikcrew und passive Mitarbeiter/Orga unterteilen?

I think we had to use the Circles Group at the time because there were so many participants/installations with fire. That was too hot for AXA. But for a fire that is only controlled by the organizer and the fire department, that's fine. After all, we also insure events with Easter fires, etc.

 The exclusion of communicable diseases takes precedence in the cancellation insurance. Official cancellation by anything that is not excluded is insured. In any case, any cancellation related to Corona will remain excluded. All insurers are very clear on this.

 There is no accident insurance for the visitors in that sense (except for exotic events such as motor sports or extreme sports). Personal injuries caused by the organizer are covered by the event liability insurance. We can offer group accident insurance for employees. How many people should this be for? Can you please divide the number into physically active/technical crew and passive staff/orga?


Owl Tue 29 Jun 2021 1:36PM

Here's the big picture of insurance (german/DeepL-english):

-Personen-, Sach- und Vermögensschäden pauschal bis 3 Mio. Euro (evtl. 5 Mio Euro)
-Schlüsselverlust bis 3 Mio. Euro
-Mietsachschäden an Gebäuden/Räumen auch durch Besucher bis 3 Mio. Euro
-Mietsachschäden an in der Location festverbauter Veranstaltungs-, Küchen- und Gastrotechnik bis 3 Mio. Euro
-Mietsachschäden an mobilen Sachen auch durch Besucher bis 10.000 Euro
-freie Mitarbeiter (Namensliste oder pauschaler Einschluss gegen 36 Euro Mehrbeitrag) – organisatorische Helfer, Servicekräfte – keine Techniker oder Künstler
-Aufbau Tribünen, Bühnen, Zelte, Pagoden
-Ausgabe Essen/Getränke in Eigenregie
-Umweltschadenversicherung inkl. Zusatzbaustein I (überlassene Grundstücke)

Vorsatz und übermäßige Beanspruchung bleiben ausgeschlossen.
Auf- und Abbauzeiten sind ohne Angabe mitversichert.

Abhandenkommen durch Diebstahl, Einbruchdiebstahl, Raub, Plünderung, Unterschlagung und Betrug, sowie Sachschäden durch

-Bedienungsfehler, Ungeschicklichkeit, Fahrlässigkeit, Vorsatz Dritter;
-Konstruktions-, Material- oder Ausführungsfehler;
-Kurzschluss, Überstrom oder Überspannung;
-Brand, Blitzschlag, Explosion, Anprall oder Absturz eines Luftfahrzeuges, seiner Teile oder seiner Ladung sowie Schwelen, Glimmen, Sengen, Glühen oder Implosion;
-Wasser, Feuchtigkeit;
-Sturm, Frost, Eisgang, Überschwemmung;

 Selbstbeteiligung im Schadenfall

 -250 Euro bei Beschädigungen
-10% bei Witterungseinflüssen, mind. 250 Euro, max. 10.000 Euro
-25% bei Abhandenkommen – diese reduzieren sich bei Einbruchdiebstahl auf 10% wenn die Veranstaltungsstätte nachweislich bewacht oder alarmgesichert war, mind. 250 Euro, max. 10.000 Euro


Event liability insurance
Scope of insurance
-personal injury, property damage and financial loss lump sum up to 3 million Euro (possibly 5 million Euro)
-loss of keys up to 3 million euros
-property damage to buildings/rooms, also by visitors, up to 3 million euros
-property damage to event, kitchen and catering equipment permanently installed in the location
up to 3 million euros
-property damage to mobile objects also by visitors up to 10,000 Euro
-free employees (list of names or lump-sum inclusion against 36 Euro additional premium) -organizational helpers, service staff - no technicians or artists
-set-up of grandstands, stages, tents, pagodas
-distribution of food/drinks on own initiative
-environmental liability insurance
-environmental damage insurance incl. additional module I (land provided)

Intent and excessive strain remain excluded.
Set-up and dismantling times are included in the insurance without specification.

Technology insurance
Scope of insurance

Loss due to theft, burglary, robbery, plunder, embezzlement and fraud, as well as property damage due to
-Operation errors, clumsiness, negligence, intent of third parties;
-defects in design, materials or workmanship;
-short circuit, overcurrent or overvoltage;
-Fire, lightning, explosion, impact or crash of an aircraft, its parts or cargo, and smoldering, smoldering, scorching, glowing or implosion;
-water, moisture;
-storm, frost, ice, flood;

Deductible in case of damage

-250 Euro in case of damage
-10% in case of weather, min. 250 Euro, max. 10.000 Euro
-25% in the event of loss - this is reduced to 10% in the event of burglary if the event location was demonstrably guarded or alarmed, min. 250 euros, max. 10,000 euros.


Bee Tue 29 Jun 2021 7:15PM

I like the sound of this handling fee. Would mean we are also pandemic prepared in the case that any of our build crew test positive before the event and we could find another volunteer to cover them without extra paperwork. 👍


Saskia Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:32AM

Oh yes I know this one. It just doesn't have the option "building my dream" in the "why do you come" section so I thought it wasn't for dreamers. I will instruct my dreamers to use the box "other" then?


Veroca R. Sala Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:34AM

it should be adjusted then. I think Franzi is the owner of the file to modify it


Saskia Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:35AM

Tagging @Franzi - can we add the 'dreamer' option in the early entry form?` And maybe even a question asking 'which dream' they come for, in the case a dream wishes to register more than one early entry and whether they are 'helpers' to the dream or the actual dreamer?

Thanks, Vero & Franzi!


CJ Yetman Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:50AM

@Franzi also, should there be an option for "Korgi" or "Realizer (that needs to be there for build)"?


Alex Kaos Sun 11 Jul 2021 2:03PM

We don't need a talk poll, for build you can contact Franzi for the final numbers.

For the event itself we can add a poll to the newsletter for more detailed feedback.

Until then we can assume a gradual increase. That's roughly how it was in 2019 I believe.

Wednesday - 700 persons

Thursday - 800 persons

Friday-Sunday - 950 persons

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