insurance conditions - what do we need or want
I've got first feedback from the insurance broker. Prices haven't changed from last year. He offered their own liability insurance, but I have asked back to make sure it will also include the burn of an effigy (that wasn't the case in the past year, so we needed a different, more expensive insurance company).
If the event isn't happening, the insurances for liability and tech will be cancelled automatically and refunded. An cancellation insurance will still cost money, depending on the date. And a cancellation because of Corona (outbreak) is excluded, but it is unclear to me yet, if also the cancellation by the authorities because of a general high number of corona cases is also excluded. I'll update when I get details.
In the best case (we can use the cheap liability insurance and use the same choice of insurances like 2019) we'll pay up to 166€ for >750 visitors, and 142€ for <100k of tech.
The cancellation insurance will cost based on ticket sales and would cover loss of location, infrastructure (water), loss of third party services (e.g. security), it might also cover extreme weather (danger for life, or location unusable), direct terror or threat of terror, or grief because of death of crew or visitor, or because of an Assassination in Germany.
I've also requested the numbers for an accident insurance for build/strike, and for visitors. We didn't had that in the past, but I think civic responsibility also includes helping people who suffer because of an accident happening at Kiez Burn (beyond the limits of the health insurance).
That's what I have now. I'll attach the detail information (in German) from the insurance broker.
P.S.: For reference, the original answer by Mr. Höhne:
Hallo Herr Weßels,
wir drücken die Daumen dass im Sommer wieder irgendwas möglich sein wird. An unseren Beitragssätzen hat sich nichts geändert. Sofern die Verbrennung des Kunstwerks vom Risiko überschaubar bleibt können Sie für die Haftpflichtversicherung mit den Beiträgen in beiliegender Produktinformation rechnen.
Corona oder andere übertragbare Krankheiten sind als Ausfallgrund nicht mehr versicherbar. Tatsächlich empfehlen wir eine bestmögliche Vertragsgestaltung mit sämtlichen Partnern ohne Stornokosten oder zumindest mit einer sehr wohlwollenden Stornokostenvereinbarung. Die Haftpflicht- und Technikversicherung würde Ihnen bei Risikofortfall komplett erstattet werden und die Ausfallversicherung würde anteilig erstattet werden (der bereits versicherte Zeitraum bliebe beitragspflichtig).
Beiliegend alle Übersichten und Anfrageformulare. Bei Fragen wie immer gern fragen.
Owl (Holger) Thu 22 Jul 2021 11:13PM
It’s handed it. The insurance broker expects it today (Friday).
CJ Yetman Thu 5 Aug 2021 4:34PM
@Owl (Holger) is this the final insurance document that I should add to the Site Leads documents?Are there any other relevant documents regarding insurance I should include?
Owl (Holger) Thu 5 Aug 2021 6:31PM
The liability insurance is final. The broker also got the final list of names for Setup/strike.
The tech list and accident insurance list are finalized and sent to the broker, so the insurance fees can be calculated and set into the final offers. I expect them to be available tomorrow (Friday), so they can be signed by someone from the board. Sorry for the delay, I’ll send over everything as soon as I get it (here in the woods in Czech Republic). Dusty hugs Owl
Owl (Holger) Mon 9 Aug 2021 3:48PM
The tech insurance has been confirmed last Friday, and last Friday I also got the form for the the accident insurance. @Jan-Christian Kaspareit sent it the signed version in as well last Friday as requested. I'm expecting the resulting paperwork to arrive on paper sooner or later at the e.V. address. I don't know what the official deadline for the setup/strike signup was, but next time we should have all deadlines (in general) at least 2 weeks before start of build, so upcoming insurance questions are have more time buffer.
CJ Yetman Mon 9 Aug 2021 3:52PM
It’s getting sent to the Kiez Burn e.V. mailing address? Pretty sure there’s no one there to receive that any more… already on-site. Think you can convince them to send you a digital copy?
Owl (Holger) Mon 9 Aug 2021 4:02PM
The things the insurance broker sends us are usually in digital form. But the insurance company will send paperwork for reference later, and that might be in the form of paper. I don't think these letters will have to be handled urgently, otherwise the broker would have requested that. But I can ask for confirmation of that point of view.
Owl (Holger) Mon 9 Aug 2021 4:10PM
The broker told me now that everything is fine and in order. The accident insurance was confirmed on Friday (apparently after a last phone call with @Jan-Christian Kaspareit ). The paperwork will come indeed as letters from the different insurance companies, but since all application are with money withdrawal authorization, there is indeed no need of additional timely reactions. Do you want to have the signed applications on file?
CJ Yetman Mon 9 Aug 2021 4:17PM
If it’s easy, yes I’d like to have them on hand. But don’t go too out of your way. Thank you!
Diarmaid Mon 28 Jun 2021 12:50PM
Too fast for me :D
Early Entry and Dreamers - there are going to be a number of dreamers who will need to be on the site for build. I was directed to discuss that here.
We don't have any actual numbers yet, we should have them after the 4th of July, once all the dreams funding has been allocated. But we had reserved up to 49 spots for dreamers on build, and now it seems like this has been lost somewhere. So how many spaces do we have, and what are the conditions for dreamers to be able to go to build? Do you need to be fully vaccinated?
Owl (Holger) Tue 29 Jun 2021 1:36PM
Here's the big picture of insurance (german/DeepL-english):
-Personen-, Sach- und Vermögensschäden pauschal bis 3 Mio. Euro (evtl. 5 Mio Euro)
-Schlüsselverlust bis 3 Mio. Euro
-Mietsachschäden an Gebäuden/Räumen auch durch Besucher bis 3 Mio. Euro
-Mietsachschäden an in der Location festverbauter Veranstaltungs-, Küchen- und Gastrotechnik bis 3 Mio. Euro
-Mietsachschäden an mobilen Sachen auch durch Besucher bis 10.000 Euro
-freie Mitarbeiter (Namensliste oder pauschaler Einschluss gegen 36 Euro Mehrbeitrag) – organisatorische Helfer, Servicekräfte – keine Techniker oder Künstler
-Aufbau Tribünen, Bühnen, Zelte, Pagoden
-Ausgabe Essen/Getränke in Eigenregie
-Umweltschadenversicherung inkl. Zusatzbaustein I (überlassene Grundstücke)
Vorsatz und übermäßige Beanspruchung bleiben ausgeschlossen.
Auf- und Abbauzeiten sind ohne Angabe mitversichert.
Abhandenkommen durch Diebstahl, Einbruchdiebstahl, Raub, Plünderung, Unterschlagung und Betrug, sowie Sachschäden durch
-Bedienungsfehler, Ungeschicklichkeit, Fahrlässigkeit, Vorsatz Dritter;
-Konstruktions-, Material- oder Ausführungsfehler;
-Kurzschluss, Überstrom oder Überspannung;
-Brand, Blitzschlag, Explosion, Anprall oder Absturz eines Luftfahrzeuges, seiner Teile oder seiner Ladung sowie Schwelen, Glimmen, Sengen, Glühen oder Implosion;
-Sturm, Frost, Eisgang, Überschwemmung;
Selbstbeteiligung im Schadenfall
-250 Euro bei Beschädigungen
-10% bei Witterungseinflüssen, mind. 250 Euro, max. 10.000 Euro
-25% bei Abhandenkommen – diese reduzieren sich bei Einbruchdiebstahl auf 10% wenn die Veranstaltungsstätte nachweislich bewacht oder alarmgesichert war, mind. 250 Euro, max. 10.000 Euro
Event liability insurance
Scope of insurance
-personal injury, property damage and financial loss lump sum up to 3 million Euro (possibly 5 million Euro)
-loss of keys up to 3 million euros
-property damage to buildings/rooms, also by visitors, up to 3 million euros
-property damage to event, kitchen and catering equipment permanently installed in the location
up to 3 million euros
-property damage to mobile objects also by visitors up to 10,000 Euro
-free employees (list of names or lump-sum inclusion against 36 Euro additional premium) -organizational helpers, service staff - no technicians or artists
-set-up of grandstands, stages, tents, pagodas
-distribution of food/drinks on own initiative
-environmental liability insurance
-environmental damage insurance incl. additional module I (land provided)
Intent and excessive strain remain excluded.
Set-up and dismantling times are included in the insurance without specification.
Scope of insurance
Loss due to theft, burglary, robbery, plunder, embezzlement and fraud, as well as property damage due to
-Operation errors, clumsiness, negligence, intent of third parties;
-defects in design, materials or workmanship;
-short circuit, overcurrent or overvoltage;
-Fire, lightning, explosion, impact or crash of an aircraft, its parts or cargo, and smoldering, smoldering, scorching, glowing or implosion;
-storm, frost, ice, flood;
Deductible in case of damage
-250 Euro in case of damage
-10% in case of weather, min. 250 Euro, max. 10.000 Euro
-25% in the event of loss - this is reduced to 10% in the event of burglary if the event location was demonstrably guarded or alarmed, min. 250 euros, max. 10,000 euros.
Bee Tue 29 Jun 2021 7:15PM
I like the sound of this handling fee. Would mean we are also pandemic prepared in the case that any of our build crew test positive before the event and we could find another volunteer to cover them without extra paperwork. 👍
Saskia Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:32AM
Oh yes I know this one. It just doesn't have the option "building my dream" in the "why do you come" section so I thought it wasn't for dreamers. I will instruct my dreamers to use the box "other" then?
Veroca R. Sala Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:34AM
it should be adjusted then. I think Franzi is the owner of the file to modify it
Saskia Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:35AM
Tagging @Franzi - can we add the 'dreamer' option in the early entry form?` And maybe even a question asking 'which dream' they come for, in the case a dream wishes to register more than one early entry and whether they are 'helpers' to the dream or the actual dreamer?
Thanks, Vero & Franzi!
CJ Yetman Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:50AM
@Franzi also, should there be an option for "Korgi" or "Realizer (that needs to be there for build)"?
Kaliope Sun 11 Jul 2021 1:35PM
The insurance fee will be cheaper if we can calculate the maximum amount of people that will be on site on a given day. Otherwise the maximum for build will be 200 per day and for the event about 1000 – anyone has an opinion if/how we can do this? Many people are probably still not sure when they will arrive. Does it make sense to play with some numbers or to do a poll on this? @Professor Kaos
Edit: Build & strike don't count, only numbers for the main event are relevant
Alex Kaos Sun 11 Jul 2021 2:03PM
We don't need a talk poll, for build you can contact Franzi for the final numbers.
For the event itself we can add a poll to the newsletter for more detailed feedback.
Until then we can assume a gradual increase. That's roughly how it was in 2019 I believe.
Wednesday - 700 persons
Thursday - 800 persons
Friday-Sunday - 950 persons
Owl (Holger) Tue 29 Jun 2021 1:01PM
Actually the insurance is not the limiting factor here. In the past years we just had to provide the names of the build/strike volunteers to make sure they are counted as temporary employees for the insurance. The main limitation is coming from (as I understood) the prevention of having too many people on site before the event starts, and before infrastructure is ready (toilets, kitchen). Especially people should have a specific job to do which is needed (and a ticket). Otherwise there is a risk that parties are starting too early 😉 Btw: I discovered in the most recent insurance offer that for a handling fee of 36€ even the name list could be avoided. I'm waiting for the confirmation if my interpretation is correct, but using that option could avoid the risk that some last minute helpers (especially for strike) are not insured ...
Health itself is not an insurance requirement. The planned obligation of being fully vaccinated is coming from the risk assessment that if any case of SARS-COV-2 infection is detected or brought on site during build, there is a high risk that the event might be cancelled. The vaccination obligation is meant to minimize this risk. But the COVID team can provide more details and insight on this topic.
In general we're expecting people to have their own health insurance (standard for EU citizens, but might be missing for volunteers of the US or other countries), so if someone gets sick or hurts themself, they are getting treatment without paying their asses off later. A valid travel health insurance will work, too.
I'm still waiting for an offer for an accident insurance for build/strike. We didn't had that in the past, but if you are cutting off your foot, the health insurance usually deals with getting you healthy again, but has only minimal support for long term impacts of such an accident. I've seen accidents during build/strike in the past, luckily none (afaik) with permanent personal damage yet. I would rather go for a (affordable) accident insurance than to deal with community fundraisers later ...
Saskia Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:21AM
IMPORTANTE: Dreamguides need a process to tell their dreamers HOW to sign up for early entry. Is the process defined yet? @Melinda Gonzalez @Diarmaid ?
Furthermore, one of my dreamlings requested that they need 3 people to work on their project on build. It is reasonable to assume not every structure can be built by one person. How do we determine who can have how many helping hands?
FYI, I will move this discussion over to a seperate talk thread in dreamer -subgroup, but I think this discussion here needs to finish first for information gathering. :)
Veroca R. Sala Wed 30 Jun 2021 8:24AM
yes, there is an early entry request. @Franzi on managing early entry https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfU9UMs4nBpC1o97WM9zBnLlHHyTtiq-wJw10QXhL_K0Az0CA/viewform
Mareike Sun 11 Jul 2021 12:17PM
thanks Kate! Yes, if it doesn't need to be signed by the president, then I could definitely sign it !(together with Jan)
Owl (Holger) Thu 22 Jul 2021 9:06AM
Hi Marieke, then now would be the time to do it, and to send it to firstname.lastname@example.org
Mareike Thu 22 Jul 2021 9:14AM
ah! I have 30 mins until i leave for the weekend. Which contract do I sign? Im lost in the thread. If there is time I would rather do it on monday then now in a hurry (except if its only a signature - i trust you), but also understand it needs to happen soon-ish
Annette Thu 22 Jul 2021 9:38PM
And we need it asap for the permit. Did you send it already or can you tomorrow?
Annette Fri 23 Jul 2021 7:54AM
@Owl (Holger) Is there already a list for equipment and other items that need to be insured? Or will it be send today after we receive the Haftpflichtversicherung?
Kaliope Sun 11 Jul 2021 8:19AM
Thank you so much Owl! 🎉 Question: Do we know yet who from the board may sign the offer? Maybe @Mareike or @Jan-Christian Kaspareit because of German language?
FYI @Annette & @Jan Thomas
De facto, the actual insurance policy is finalized only shortly before the event, so that we can still make changes to the number of participants and insured technology.
For the permit application is probably still important that in the offer the visitors per day are counted, even if they stay several days, and that it is a maximum. Not that they think there will be a total of 5000 people. We might have to explicitly point that out again.
In 2019, due to the longer processing time with the insurance company, there was a need and opportunity to get an insurance confirmation for the permit application after the deal already, we could probably do the same this time. But maybe this time it will be faster and we will get the insurance certificate relatively quickly after signing.
Owl (Holger) Sat 10 Jul 2021 10:56AM
This is the corrected offer of liablility insurance and tech insurance. All previous questions are answered. Some things to note:
The calculation of number of visitors has changed from what I remembered (and Mr. Höhne stated that the previous calculation for AXA contracts might have been wrong in our favor), now people on site per day are counted. If we can find out who of the participants will arrive later, we can save some money (e.g. if Tuesday and Wednesday are only 200 ppl. on site, we're saving 10ct per person from the overall amount, 160€). Question for that would be, can we / do we want to do a survey to get these numbers, so they are roughly reliable?
We also still need to have the names lists for setup/strike. For the other variant we would have to prove afterwards that there was some sort of contract for that person, and afaik we don't have contracts for volunteers ...
The amount of insurance is 5 millions, the basic 3 millions is generally treated as a bit too low (e.g. to cover permanent health issues of more than one person in a liablility case).
The real insured amount of tech can be adapted before the event, as well as participant numbers
It doesn't make a difference for the insurance if we have a (one) burn, or not.
From my point of view the offer is good to be signed. But its generally good to double-check, so if you have remarks please name them.
Veroca R. Sala Mon 28 Jun 2021 12:47PM
there has been some concerns about the early entry, in the "ask anything" thread, I move the discussion here, as there isn't any other suitable thread
CJ Yetman Thu 17 Jun 2021 9:06AM
@owlholger as the Site Leads Lead, I will be collecting all important documentation so that Site Leads will have copies of them readily available on-site. If you remember when it's all setup and ready to go, can you forward a copy of the insurance contract and details to me please? Thanks
Owl (Holger) Mon 14 Jun 2021 2:27PM
Conditions are still the same compared with the inquiry in spring. I suppose we'll have a bit less tech to insure with fewer major soundcamps. Already negotiated with Franzi about the setup/strike form which will be the base of the name list for the liablilty insurance. Question is (to be ask at the meeting later), when do we expect the permit? Insurance has no real rush, but past years told us that it is good to have a certain state in the contracting process in time.
Veroca R. Sala Fri 5 Mar 2021 8:09AM
Thanks a lot for this! we will take a closer look at this probably on the next board meeting on Sunday the 7th.
Uploaded pdf with English Version ( Translated with DeepL )
Owl · Fri 5 Mar 2021 9:22AM
Thanks for the translations!
I have a first response to my questions. The cancellation for Corona is not covered in general, so only weather and other stuff remains. In this case I suppose that our community and the event is resilient enough that we probably don't need an insurance for the other probable causes of cancellations.
So, if we keep with one mayor effigy burn, we can take the cheap insurance. And apparently we can't have an insurance for self-inflicted accidents for participants, only for build/strike. I'll followup on that, but since our roles during build/strike are pretty fluid, we might end up with high numbers ...