insurance conditions - what do we need or want

Thanks for the translations!

I have a first response to my questions. The cancellation for Corona is not covered in general, so only weather and other stuff remains. In this case I suppose that our community and the event is resilient enough that we probably don't need an insurance for the other probable causes of cancellations.
So, if we keep with one mayor effigy burn, we can take the cheap insurance. And apparently we can't have an insurance for self-inflicted accidents for participants, only for build/strike. I'll followup on that, but since our roles during build/strike are pretty fluid, we might end up with high numbers ...

Dusty Hugs
Owl

ich glaube die Circles Group mussten wir seinerzeit nehmen, weil es so viele Teilnehmer/Installationen mit Feuer gab. Das war der AXA dann doch zu heiß. Aber bei einem nur durch den Veranstalter und die Feuerwehr kontrolliertem Feuer passt das schon. Wir versichern ja auch Veranstaltungen mit Osterfeuer usw.

 Der Ausschluss der übertragbaren Krankheiten geht in der Ausfallversicherung vor. Die behördliche Absage durch alles, was nicht ausgeschlossen ist, ist versichert. In jedem Fall wird jegliche Absage im Zusammenhang mit Corona weiter ausgeschlossen bleiben. Da sind alle Versicherer sehr klar und deutlich.

 Eine Unfallversicherung für die Besucher gibt es in dem Sinne nicht (mit Ausnahme für Exoten wie Motorsportveranstaltungen oder Extremsport). Durch den Veranstalter verschuldete Personenschäden sind Sache der Veranstaltungshaftpflichtversicherung. Eine Gruppenunfallversicherung für die Mitarbeiter können wir anbieten. Für wie viele Personen sollte diese sein? Können Sie die Anzahl bitte in körperlich tätig/Technikcrew und passive Mitarbeiter/Orga unterteilen?

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I think we had to use the Circles Group at the time because there were so many participants/installations with fire. That was too hot for AXA. But for a fire that is only controlled by the organizer and the fire department, that's fine. After all, we also insure events with Easter fires, etc.

 The exclusion of communicable diseases takes precedence in the cancellation insurance. Official cancellation by anything that is not excluded is insured. In any case, any cancellation related to Corona will remain excluded. All insurers are very clear on this.

 There is no accident insurance for the visitors in that sense (except for exotic events such as motor sports or extreme sports). Personal injuries caused by the organizer are covered by the event liability insurance. We can offer group accident insurance for employees. How many people should this be for? Can you please divide the number into physically active/technical crew and passive staff/orga?
(Deepl-Translation)

It’s handed it. The insurance broker expects it today (Friday).

@Owl (Holger) is this the final insurance document that I should add to the Site Leads documents?Are there any other relevant documents regarding insurance I should include?

The liability insurance is final. The broker also got the final list of names for Setup/strike.

The tech list and accident insurance list are finalized and sent to the broker, so the insurance fees can be calculated and set into the final offers. I expect them to be available tomorrow (Friday), so they can be signed by someone from the board. Sorry for the delay, I’ll send over everything as soon as I get it (here in the woods in Czech Republic). Dusty hugs Owl

The tech insurance has been confirmed last Friday, and last Friday I also got the form for the the accident insurance. @Jan-Christian Kaspareit sent it the signed version in as well last Friday as requested. I'm expecting the resulting paperwork to arrive on paper sooner or later at the e.V. address. I don't know what the official deadline for the setup/strike signup was, but next time we should have all deadlines (in general) at least 2 weeks before start of build, so upcoming insurance questions are have more time buffer.

It’s getting sent to the Kiez Burn e.V. mailing address? Pretty sure there’s no one there to receive that any more… already on-site. Think you can convince them to send you a digital copy?

The things the insurance broker sends us are usually in digital form. But the insurance company will send paperwork for reference later, and that might be in the form of paper. I don't think these letters will have to be handled urgently, otherwise the broker would have requested that. But I can ask for confirmation of that point of view.

The broker told me now that everything is fine and in order. The accident insurance was confirmed on Friday (apparently after a last phone call with @Jan-Christian Kaspareit ). The paperwork will come indeed as letters from the different insurance companies, but since all application are with money withdrawal authorization, there is indeed no need of additional timely reactions. Do you want to have the signed applications on file?

If it’s easy, yes I’d like to have them on hand. But don’t go too out of your way. Thank you!

Too fast for me :D

Early Entry and Dreamers - there are going to be a number of dreamers who will need to be on the site for build. I was directed to discuss that here.

We don't have any actual numbers yet, we should have them after the 4th of July, once all the dreams funding has been allocated. But we had reserved up to 49 spots for dreamers on build, and now it seems like this has been lost somewhere. So how many spaces do we have, and what are the conditions for dreamers to be able to go to build? Do you need to be fully vaccinated?

Here's the big picture of insurance (german/DeepL-english):

Veranstaltungshaftpflichtversicherung
Versicherungsumfang
-Personen-, Sach- und Vermögensschäden pauschal bis 3 Mio. Euro (evtl. 5 Mio Euro)
-Schlüsselverlust bis 3 Mio. Euro
-Mietsachschäden an Gebäuden/Räumen auch durch Besucher bis 3 Mio. Euro
-Mietsachschäden an in der Location festverbauter Veranstaltungs-, Küchen- und Gastrotechnik bis 3 Mio. Euro
-Mietsachschäden an mobilen Sachen auch durch Besucher bis 10.000 Euro
-freie Mitarbeiter (Namensliste oder pauschaler Einschluss gegen 36 Euro Mehrbeitrag) – organisatorische Helfer, Servicekräfte – keine Techniker oder Künstler
-Aufbau Tribünen, Bühnen, Zelte, Pagoden
-Ausgabe Essen/Getränke in Eigenregie
-Umwelthaftpflichtversicherung
-Umweltschadenversicherung inkl. Zusatzbaustein I (überlassene Grundstücke)

Vorsatz und übermäßige Beanspruchung bleiben ausgeschlossen.
Auf- und Abbauzeiten sind ohne Angabe mitversichert.

Technikversicherung
Versicherungsumfang
Abhandenkommen durch Diebstahl, Einbruchdiebstahl, Raub, Plünderung, Unterschlagung und Betrug, sowie Sachschäden durch

-Bedienungsfehler, Ungeschicklichkeit, Fahrlässigkeit, Vorsatz Dritter;
-Konstruktions-, Material- oder Ausführungsfehler;
-Kurzschluss, Überstrom oder Überspannung;
-Brand, Blitzschlag, Explosion, Anprall oder Absturz eines Luftfahrzeuges, seiner Teile oder seiner Ladung sowie Schwelen, Glimmen, Sengen, Glühen oder Implosion;
-Wasser, Feuchtigkeit;
-Sturm, Frost, Eisgang, Überschwemmung;

 Selbstbeteiligung im Schadenfall

 -250 Euro bei Beschädigungen
-10% bei Witterungseinflüssen, mind. 250 Euro, max. 10.000 Euro
-25% bei Abhandenkommen – diese reduzieren sich bei Einbruchdiebstahl auf 10% wenn die Veranstaltungsstätte nachweislich bewacht oder alarmgesichert war, mind. 250 Euro, max. 10.000 Euro

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Event liability insurance
Scope of insurance
-personal injury, property damage and financial loss lump sum up to 3 million Euro (possibly 5 million Euro)
-loss of keys up to 3 million euros
-property damage to buildings/rooms, also by visitors, up to 3 million euros
-property damage to event, kitchen and catering equipment permanently installed in the location
up to 3 million euros
-property damage to mobile objects also by visitors up to 10,000 Euro
-free employees (list of names or lump-sum inclusion against 36 Euro additional premium) -organizational helpers, service staff - no technicians or artists
-set-up of grandstands, stages, tents, pagodas
-distribution of food/drinks on own initiative
-environmental liability insurance
-environmental damage insurance incl. additional module I (land provided)

Intent and excessive strain remain excluded.
Set-up and dismantling times are included in the insurance without specification.

Technology insurance
Scope of insurance

Loss due to theft, burglary, robbery, plunder, embezzlement and fraud, as well as property damage due to
-Operation errors, clumsiness, negligence, intent of third parties;
-defects in design, materials or workmanship;
-short circuit, overcurrent or overvoltage;
-Fire, lightning, explosion, impact or crash of an aircraft, its parts or cargo, and smoldering, smoldering, scorching, glowing or implosion;
-water, moisture;
-storm, frost, ice, flood;

Deductible in case of damage

-250 Euro in case of damage
-10% in case of weather, min. 250 Euro, max. 10.000 Euro
-25% in the event of loss - this is reduced to 10% in the event of burglary if the event location was demonstrably guarded or alarmed, min. 250 euros, max. 10,000 euros.

I like the sound of this handling fee. Would mean we are also pandemic prepared in the case that any of our build crew test positive before the event and we could find another volunteer to cover them without extra paperwork. 👍

Oh yes I know this one. It just doesn't have the option "building my dream" in the "why do you come" section so I thought it wasn't for dreamers. I will instruct my dreamers to use the box "other" then?

it should be adjusted then. I think Franzi is the owner of the file to modify it

Tagging @Franzi - can we add the 'dreamer' option in the early entry form?` And maybe even a question asking 'which dream' they come for, in the case a dream wishes to register more than one early entry and whether they are 'helpers' to the dream or the actual dreamer?

Thanks, Vero & Franzi!

@Franzi also, should there be an option for "Korgi" or "Realizer (that needs to be there for build)"?

The insurance fee will be cheaper if we can calculate the maximum amount of people that will be on site on a given day. Otherwise the maximum for build will be 200 per day and for the event about 1000 – anyone has an opinion if/how we can do this? Many people are probably still not sure when they will arrive. Does it make sense to play with some numbers or to do a poll on this? @Professor Kaos

Edit: Build & strike don't count, only numbers for the main event are relevant

We don't need a talk poll, for build you can contact Franzi for the final numbers.

For the event itself we can add a poll to the newsletter for more detailed feedback.

Until then we can assume a gradual increase. That's roughly how it was in 2019 I believe.

Wednesday - 700 persons

Thursday - 800 persons

Friday-Sunday - 950 persons

Here we go ...

I've sent you all I have via email.

Actually the insurance is not the limiting factor here. In the past years we just had to provide the names of the build/strike volunteers to make sure they are counted as temporary employees for the insurance. The main limitation is coming from (as I understood) the prevention of having too many people on site before the event starts, and before infrastructure is ready (toilets, kitchen). Especially people should have a specific job to do which is needed (and a ticket). Otherwise there is a risk that parties are starting too early 😉 Btw: I discovered in the most recent insurance offer that for a handling fee of 36€ even the name list could be avoided. I'm waiting for the confirmation if my interpretation is correct, but using that option could avoid the risk that some last minute helpers (especially for strike) are not insured ...

Health itself is not an insurance requirement. The planned obligation of being fully vaccinated is coming from the risk assessment that if any case of SARS-COV-2 infection is detected or brought on site during build, there is a high risk that the event might be cancelled. The vaccination obligation is meant to minimize this risk. But the COVID team can provide more details and insight on this topic.

In general we're expecting people to have their own health insurance (standard for EU citizens, but might be missing for volunteers of the US or other countries), so if someone gets sick or hurts themself, they are getting treatment without paying their asses off later. A valid travel health insurance will work, too.

I'm still waiting for an offer for an accident insurance for build/strike. We didn't had that in the past, but if you are cutting off your foot, the health insurance usually deals with getting you healthy again, but has only minimal support for long term impacts of such an accident. I've seen accidents during build/strike in the past, luckily none (afaik) with permanent personal damage yet. I would rather go for a (affordable) accident insurance than to deal with community fundraisers later ...

IMPORTANTE: Dreamguides need a process to tell their dreamers HOW to sign up for early entry. Is the process defined yet? @Melinda Gonzalez @Diarmaid ?

Furthermore, one of my dreamlings requested that they need 3 people to work on their project on build. It is reasonable to assume not every structure can be built by one person. How do we determine who can have how many helping hands?

FYI, I will move this discussion over to a seperate talk thread in dreamer -subgroup, but I think this discussion here needs to finish first for information gathering. :)

yes, there is an early entry request. @Franzi on managing early entry https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfU9UMs4nBpC1o97WM9zBnLlHHyTtiq-wJw10QXhL_K0Az0CA/viewform

thanks Kate! Yes, if it doesn't need to be signed by the president, then I could definitely sign it !(together with Jan)

Hi Marieke, then now would be the time to do it, and to send it to veranstaltungen@schwandt-makler.de

ah! I have 30 mins until i leave for the weekend. Which contract do I sign? Im lost in the thread. If there is time I would rather do it on monday then now in a hurry (except if its only a signature - i trust you), but also understand it needs to happen soon-ish

insuranceOfferKiezBurn.pdf this one?

And we need it asap for the permit. Did you send it already or can you tomorrow?

@Owl (Holger) Is there already a list for equipment and other items that need to be insured? Or will it be send today after we receive the Haftpflichtversicherung?

Thank you so much Owl! 🎉 Question: Do we know yet who from the board may sign the offer? Maybe @Mareike or @Jan-Christian Kaspareit because of German language?

FYI @Annette & @Jan Thomas

De facto, the actual insurance policy is finalized only shortly before the event, so that we can still make changes to the number of participants and insured technology.

For the permit application is probably still important that in the offer the visitors per day are counted, even if they stay several days, and that it is a maximum. Not that they think there will be a total of 5000 people. We might have to explicitly point that out again.

In 2019, due to the longer processing time with the insurance company, there was a need and opportunity to get an insurance confirmation for the permit application after the deal already, we could probably do the same this time. But maybe this time it will be faster and we will get the insurance certificate relatively quickly after signing.

This is the corrected offer of liablility insurance and tech insurance. All previous questions are answered. Some things to note:

• The calculation of number of visitors has changed from what I remembered (and Mr. Höhne stated that the previous calculation for AXA contracts might have been wrong in our favor), now people on site per day are counted. If we can find out who of the participants will arrive later, we can save some money (e.g. if Tuesday and Wednesday are only 200 ppl. on site, we're saving 10ct per person from the overall amount, 160€). Question for that would be, can we / do we want to do a survey to get these numbers, so they are roughly reliable?

• We also still need to have the names lists for setup/strike. For the other variant we would have to prove afterwards that there was some sort of contract for that person, and afaik we don't have contracts for volunteers ...

• The amount of insurance is 5 millions, the basic 3 millions is generally treated as a bit too low (e.g. to cover permanent health issues of more than one person in a liablility case).

• The real insured amount of tech can be adapted before the event, as well as participant numbers

• It doesn't make a difference for the insurance if we have a (one) burn, or not.

From my point of view the offer is good to be signed. But its generally good to double-check, so if you have remarks please name them.

Dusty Hugs
Owl

there has been some concerns about the early entry, in the "ask anything" thread, I move the discussion here, as there isn't any other suitable thread

@owlholger as the Site Leads Lead, I will be collecting all important documentation so that Site Leads will have copies of them readily available on-site. If you remember when it's all setup and ready to go, can you forward a copy of the insurance contract and details to me please? Thanks

Conditions are still the same compared with the inquiry in spring. I suppose we'll have a bit less tech to insure with fewer major soundcamps. Already negotiated with Franzi about the setup/strike form which will be the base of the name list for the liablilty insurance. Question is (to be ask at the meeting later), when do we expect the permit? Insurance has no real rush, but past years told us that it is good to have a certain state in the contracting process in time.

Thanks a lot for this! we will take a closer look at this probably on the next board meeting on Sunday the 7th.

Uploaded pdf with English Version ( Translated with DeepL )