talk.kiezburn.org
April 29th, 2022 09:34

[Decision] Dogs at Kiez Burn 2022

Sunniva
Sunniva Public Seen by 81

Last edited: 09.06.22

A decision has been made

  • Who made the decision: @Sunniva

  • When the decision was made: 13.05.22

  • Decision Summary: I (Sunniva) will be this year's Dog Lead, and we will welcome up to 5 dogs at Kiez Burn this year!

  • Following last years dog trial, and two weeks of community engagement and discussion about this year's proposal, and after adjusting the suggested agreements based on the feedback received, I have decided that there is sufficient support and agreement to go through with having dogs at the burn. I will now move forward with organising everything for this to happen as smooth as possible.

  • If you have any questions about dogs at Kiez Burn, you can either comment in this thread, or reach out to me directly via Telegram: @sunniva, Talk: @sunniva or Discord: Sunniva (she/her) #6273


❣️ Use this form to apply to bring your dog to Kiez Burn.


❣️  Deadline to apply: 26.06.22



💕 🐶 💕

Short summary:

I propose to continue last year's initiative to allow a handful of dogs to Kiez Burn. I've listed a report from last year's experience, proposed agreements, and a few other practical things.

Proposer

@Sunniva

I've been in the Kiez Burn community since 2018, and I have a cute little street dog named Pepa (aka Jessica Freja Pepalicious). I'd love to continue last year's initiative in finding a wholesome and mindful way to bring a few dogs onsite.

Here's the link to last year's advice process: https://talk.kiezburn.org/d/D20BEOi4/-decision-dogs-at-kiez-burn-2021

 Information gathered before posting & report from last year

  • We know that Freiland allows dogs on their land, and that the area is usually used for dog walks. Unlike many other burn environments in terms of climate, sound levels and surroundings, Kiez Burn offers a particularly dog-friendly environment at Freiland.

  • The dog trial in 2021 offered many learnings and observations, and I am confident that we can go through with this initiative in an even smoother way this year.

  • We collected a lot of feedback during the event in 2021 that will be taken into consideration this year. I personally received overwhelmingly positive feedback about bringing dogs to the event in a considerate way.

  • We also did a survey after the event where 64 community members shared their experiences with last year's dog trial. This feedback will be taken into consideration moving forward.

  • Half of the survey participants (47,6 %) shared that their overall experience with dogs at the burn was positive, and 30,2 % shared that their experience was neutral.

  • With a smaller percentage (20,6 %) stating that their overall experience with last year's dog trial was negative, and assuming that most of the Kiez Burn community members with a negative experience felt compelled to give feedback about it, I would say that these numbers are in favour of the dog trial!

  • About folks allergic to dogs, we know that allergens from dogs are commonly spread in indoor environments. Because Kiez Burn takes place outdoors, it is my understanding that the risk of allergic reactions are severely decreased. In having restricted areas for dogs, and providing areas and spaces completely free of dogs, I believe that any allergic burner can peacefully coexist with our dogs during Kiez Burn. Source: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/pet-allergy/symptoms-causes/syc-20352192

People/roles most affected by this proposal + with the most knowledge and experience relevant to this proposal

  • Last year's Co-Dog Lead: @Hanna-Maija (Animal)

  • Rangers for a radio: @Jessie

  • Site leads in case of an incident: @Bee

  • The community

The proposal

Background

Freiland is a beautiful dog-friendly area, and the Kiez Burn community has many passionate dog pawrents & friends of dogs. Allowing dogs onsite can be an inclusive alteration for some of our community members, and it can make all of us better equipped to welcome service dogs in the future too.

For Kiez Burn 2021, we realised a dog trial with the prospect of finding a wholesome and mindful way to bring a few dogs onsite. We collected a lot of feedback during the event in 2021 that is taken into consideration moving forward.

Proposal & implementation

These are the agreements I propose in order to allow dogs onsite during Kiez Burn 2022.

Agreements:

  1. Dog Lead is the point of contact in incidents involving a dog onsite, and takes full responsibility in resolving matters, alternatively together with other leads, depending on the circumstances. Dog Lead will be available via radio throughout the event.

  2. All dogs will be registered with the Dog Lead beforehand. There will be a sign-up sheet to make sure all requirements are met, and a maximum of 5 dogs will be allowed onsite throughout the event. Only healthy, kid friendly, chipped and vaccinated dogs with “Hundehaftpflicht” insurance will be allowed. The dogs will have lights on at nighttime.

  3. All dogs will be supervised by a Responsible Human at any given time, and always on leash when walking around onsite. The Responsible Human makes sure the dog only goes where it’s allowed to go, removes all dog M(p)OOP, and cares for their dog's needs (shielding from loud sounds/agitated humans, providing sufficient water and food etc.). Dog Lead will provide mindful guidelines for all Responsible Humans prior to the event, and will carry a First Aid Kit + have access to a car in case of emergencies.

  4. Dogs are not allowed in the First Aid Tent, Welfare or any kitchen areas. Camps and art installations can choose if their area is dog-friendly or not. It is the responsibility of the Responsible Human to make sure a space is dog-friendly before entering.

  5. One person can be a Responsible Human for several dogs at a time if necessary.

  6. Designated areas for dogs in enclosed spaces and structures where they can play or rest safely and unleashed while supervised can be provided. Dog Lead will make sure that these designated areas are sufficiently secured.

  7. Dogs come second to meeting the needs of people. Any concerns, wishes and needs shall be respected without any further questions in all areas that are not designated areas for dogs.

  8. All Responsible Humans are liable for the actions of their dog. If an incident occurs where a dog have caused fear or harm during the event, and mediation or support is needed, this is initially the responsibility of the Dog Lead. Depending on severity, the Responsible Human and their dog might have to leave the event. Site Lead makes the final call. Protocols for this will be cleared with Site Lead and Ranger Lead prior to the event.

  9. All protocols, agreements and guidelines as well as a bullet list with crucial details for dogs at Kiez Burn will be shared with Gate, Site Leads and Rangers. A list with contact details and photos of the dogs will also be provided.

  10. Dog Lead will have close contact with all Responsible Humans prior to and throughout the event. Dog Lead is also responsible to collect feedback, experiences and register incidents involving dogs at Kiez Burn.

Who would implement this proposal

@Sunniva will volunteer as this year’s Dog Lead. 

When this proposal would be implemented

I would like to move on with this proposal in a week’s time: Friday 13th of May at 15.00. The proposal would be set in action immediately after, and people could apply to bring their dogs throughout May.

The cost (time, money, effort, etc.) of this proposal

This proposal should have no direct impact on the finances of Kiez Burn. The goal is to be as independent as possible from other functions during the burn. Other leads should only be involved in case event of a severe incident.

What some advantages of this proposal are

My understanding is that this proposal is in line with the Kiez Burn principles, and that it especially honours the principles of Inclusion, Immediacy and Radical Self-Expression, as well as the unwritten principle of All Things Cuddly. We would be able to welcome and include community members together with their canine companions.

What some disadvantages of this proposal are

Kiez Burn originally has a strict no pets policy (with the exception of service dogs) that is listed under “inclusion” in one of the eleven Kiez Burn principles. This proposal suggests an alteration to the no pets policy in the Kiez Burn principles.

Please share any suggestions, objections, feedback and similar before Friday 13th of May at 15.00.

Thank you for reading through!

Sunniva

Sunniva June 9th, 2022 12:07

Update: The deadline to apply to bring a dog to the burn has been extended to the 26th of June!

❣️ Use this form to apply to bring your dog to Kiez Burn: https://forms.gle/WAXGAJuqSBPTp8RZ8

👤

Anonymous May 17th, 2022 11:33

Sunniva

Sunniva May 13th, 2022 14:11


A decision has been made: I'll be this year's Dog Lead, and we'll welcome up to 5 dogs at Kiez Burn this year!



❣️ Use this form to apply to bring your dog to Kiez Burn: https://forms.gle/WAXGAJuqSBPTp8RZ8


❣️ Deadline to apply: 08.06.22


The application form will also be shared in the newsletter, Telegram channel, on Discord and Facebook. If you have any questions about dogs at Kiez Burn, you can leave a comment in this thread, or message me directly via Talk, Telegram: @sunniva or Discord: Sunniva (she/her) #6273

Sunniva

Sunniva May 8th, 2022 14:02

Thanks @Jaina Hirai 🙂 Yeah I'm aiming to change the rule on a longer term. Including last year's official dog trial, I'm treating this year as an extended kind of trial as well. If it goes well and we all feel confident about this thing, it will be more of a part of the agreements and rules for Kiez Burn, and less of an exception. At least that's how I imagine it for now.

Sunniva

Sunniva May 8th, 2022 13:57

Thanks for offering to help with materials for the signs, I might take you up on that in the beginning of July if that's ok with you 🤗

About the kid-friendly and non-kid-friendly areas, as far as I know these are communicated via the programme exclusively, except for a few verbal check-ins throughout of course.

Jaina Hirai

Jaina Hirai May 5th, 2022 10:53

Sunniva, this is a very thoughtful and careful proposal. I support up to 5 dogs on site, always on leash. There is a part of me that feels like this is an odd exceptional rule, to be a "no dogs" space that has a few dogs nonetheless, but I do not object.

Nick Reiher

Nick Reiher May 4th, 2022 14:38

About signs: a printed A4 attached to cardboard could be a thing to relatively easy make quite a few at once. I have so much cardboard at home that I could help with that part :). And maybe even test my design skills to make the sign too.

I am wondering how this fits in with kid-friendly vs. kid-free zones. How do the responsible adults let children know where they are allowed to go / not go? I know that camps list if they are kid-friendly in the signup, but how is this communicated on site?

Sunniva

Sunniva May 4th, 2022 14:21

All righty I get it. I'll have to look into how I could solve that in a practical way. I might be a little late to the game to do this very efficiently. Adding the question to the programme application & Kiez registration at an earlier time would be ideal and I'll remember that for next time. Maybe I can use Discord for this. I'll think about it.

I don't think it's realistic to ask camps and art installations to produce the signs, but maybe I and the other Responsible Humans can find the resources to make them and put them up. Not sure it'll be necessary if we only have say 3 dogs, but I'll see what we can do!

Nick Reiher

Nick Reiher May 4th, 2022 10:38

Here is what I had in mind about default non-dog friendly and letting people know otherwise. Not the details, but the general idea :).

Before the event, you reach out to camps and art that have public access, however one does.

Intimacy Kiez says "no dogs in our space".

Blanket Fort says "only Peppa".

Prometheans say "dogs welcome but not when fire spinning is going on"

Harlots say "yes dogs" ;)

The Palace never responds to any messages.

Then I would have it be communicated at each location with a sign that says "dogs welcome" (at Harlots), "dogs partially welcome" (at blanket fort and Prometheans). Not just for the dog's humans, but also for other people to know that a dog might come to the space later or might have been there (re: allergies).

And then when a dog actually comes by, the human can check in with those currently there.

Sunniva

Sunniva May 2nd, 2022 09:17

Happy to hear you too like dogs @Richard Hodkinson 🤗 I hear you and raise you with a practical solution: Adding water to rinse the ground. This is what we did last year whenever needed, in addition to being careful about where we let our dogs do their business of course. Hopefully that can help decrease some of that fear for you.

Sunniva

Sunniva May 2nd, 2022 09:08

Yup, that's how I tried to interact with spaces last year. It's important to me that folks feel safe to use their spaces and that we can find a good way to interact about malleable or retractable invitations and needs too. Even if there is a dog sign, I think it would be nice to check in before entering a smaller space.

It's also perfectly ok to welcome one specific dog, or to welcome dogs at a certain time and not later on. Like for example allowing someone to join a workshop space once with their dog, but not otherwise, or if they only like a certain dog they are not in any way obliged to welcome other dogs into their space as well.

I added this last sentence to number 4. for clarity:
"Dogs are not allowed in the First Aid Tent, Welfare or any kitchen areas. Camps and art installations can choose if their area is dog-friendly or not. It is the responsibility of the Responsible Human to make sure a space is dog-friendly before entering."

All Responsible Humans should expect to interact continuously about these boundaries throughout the event.

Sunniva

Sunniva May 2nd, 2022 08:42

Thanks @Hanna-Maija (Animal) - adding your practical suggestions to the proposal ab sofort! I'll make sure to add something about consent and dogs when writing about the dogs in the Kiez Burn Programme as well.

Sunniva

Sunniva May 2nd, 2022 08:24

Thanks for chiming in @Nick Reiher!


The Dog Trial Survey was shared on Talk, FB and on the Kiez Burn Telegram Channel last fall. 13 people answered that their overall experience with dogs at Kiez Burn was negative. Our follow-up question was: "What did you think of this year's dog trial? What was your experience with the dogs onsite? What would you need to be more comfortable around dogs at Kiez Burn? Anything else you'd like to share?"


Here's some things they shared:
- They were opposed to the concept of dogs onsite in principle
- They were worried about the sound level not being dog-friendly
- They were worried that there would be even more dogs at the burn in the future (we only had 3 last year)
- They were concerned about potential risks like dogs biting and about the safety of kids interacting with the dogs
- They didn't like dogs barking, as this made them nervous and anxious
- They nearly stumbled over a dog in the dark, and this made them worried about having dogs at the burn in general
- A few of them had negative experiences with one dog that was not part of the dog trial, and who was roaming free onsite without a leash

Only a few of them shared about specific negative experiences with dogs at the burn, and most of those experiences had been with a dog that was not part of the dog trial.


In addition to the survey, I spent a big chunk of last year's burn asking around for people's experiences, and what they've heard others say about it. I'm also taking this feedback into consideration when drawing the conclusion about the numbers of the survey being in favour of last year's dog trial.


When drawing that conclusion I'm referring to what's called a negative bias. From my nearly 2 decades with organizational activism, it is my experience that negative feedback travels faster than any other feedback. I think this article explains some of the nuances around this pretty well: https://www.verywellmind.com/negative-bias-4589618


As I wrote in another comment, I am devoted to honouring the feedback we received last year. The dogs will have to be kid-friendly, non-reactive (as in not the ones that tends to bark a lot), and clearly visible in the dark with lights and reflectives. There's many cool and affordable sound protection products for dogs that I'll be trying out this year and that I'll recommend the others too. I've capped the number at maximum 5 dogs, and it'll probably be less than that in the end. I'm very positive that we can find a way to do this smoothly 😎

Sunniva

Sunniva May 2nd, 2022 07:33

Yeah thanks for sharing @Universe!

We won't have a Dog Kiez this year but point number 7. in our agreements is particularly important to me because of some of the things you mention:

7. Dogs come second to meeting the needs of people. Any concerns, wishes and needs shall be respected without any further questions in all areas that are not designated areas for dogs.

This year those designated areas would be sparse. It could be crate in a tent or an area in a camp that has agreed on it. Which means that all other spaces at the whole burn will go by the rule above that dogs come second to meeting the needs of people.

I will personally provide mindful guidelines to all Responsible Humans about the responsibility of creating a kinder and safer space for everyone involved. Communication and social skills, mindfulness and consent is key. I hope these agreements and guidelines will offer you some relief!

Hanna-Maija (Animal)

Hanna-Maija (Animal) May 1st, 2022 22:01

Thank you for taking the time to share about your needs ❤️ As a 100% dog person and lover I 100% agree with you. It's completely the responsibility of the guardian of the dog to make sure that the dog doesn't approach anyone without their consent. This is impossible to do without having the dog on leash so that's why the leash requirement has been and is included in the proposal and I believe is to be taken very seriously 👍. No free running dogs anywhere in the location of Kiez Burn - period. 🙂

The next step would be to train the humans not to approach the dogs without a consent but that is another story 🙂

Ale

Ale May 1st, 2022 15:59

Loving the way you’re both communicating! Last year the dogs were leashed all the time. At least every time I saw them. And I know it was also a requirement for the dogs to be allowed at kiezburn.

Richard Hodkinson

Richard Hodkinson May 1st, 2022 14:30

I like dogs. My only fear would be sitting in their pee by a tree when enhanced on a Friday....

Nick Reiher

Nick Reiher May 1st, 2022 11:35

About dog-free or dog-friendly camps or spaces, I believe that by default all spaces should be dog-free. Then any camps that welcome dogs should have to explicitly say so and somehow communicate that to people who might be there (with a sign or something at the entrance?).

This better allows people who want to avoid dogs to more easily do so.

Nick Reiher

Nick Reiher May 1st, 2022 11:30

Re: the 20% of people who voted that the dog trial in 2021 was a negative experience for them that you mentioned? Was there any space for them to put the reasons there experience was negative? If so, what were the reasons people put? Or what other specific things negative things /

Also, was the survey only about the dog trial? How was it publicized?

From your statement here "With a smaller percentage (20,6 %) stating that their overall experience with last year's dog trial was negative, and assuming that a majority of the Kiez Burn community members with a negative experience felt compelled to participate in the survey, I would say that these numbers are in favour of the dog trial!"

I disagree with the conclusion that the majority of people who had negative experiences filled out the survey. Less than 10% of attendees filled it out in total, and one could just as easily argue that people who like dogs and had positive experiences filled it out at a much higher rate.

Hanna-Maija (Animal)

Hanna-Maija (Animal) May 1st, 2022 10:46

Thank you for making this proposal Sunniva! I myself would not be bringing my dogs to KB this year as I now have 2 and that would be too much for me with all my other responsibilities.

I am nevertheless supporting this proposal. I think Freiland is very dog friendly area itself and the surrounding forests offer great opportunities to take dogs for longer walks out of the Freiland area. I also think both the dog lovers and the people who don't like dogs can co-exist in the area as long as we have clear rules around the dogs.

The important points and what in my opinion makes dog onsite possible are
- Dogs are ALWAYS on leash when moving in the KB area. No exceptions. This is very important for the safety and comfort for everyone (and how I wish the "real world" would be as well! I also hate it when people have their dogs off leash on the streets of Berlin. Very selfish behaviour from dog owners ).
- Each camp and art project can exclude dogs from their area if they so decide.
- Each dog is healthy and vaccinated and has the liability insurance. I would add chipped too since that is the requirement for all the dogs in at least Berlin since the beginning of this year.

I think it would be great if the Dog Lead would also have a basic first aid kit for dogs available and possibility to use a car if there is some health issues with any of the dogs. I can offer at least my car for this purpose.

Education about consent and boundaries related to animals wouldn't hurt either! Meaning: ask before touching anyone's dog and asking before letting your dog touch anyone :) If you are entering a space with a dog it's good practise to ask if everyone are comfortable with it. It's also ok to communicate your boundaries if you don't want a dog near you <3

U

Universe May 1st, 2022 10:38

Thank you for the invitation to share more @Sunniva. You have a lovely way of communicating which makes it hard to make a case against what you are asking for. However this feels important enough to me to carry on raising concerns. What feels important to me is to not have dogs running around, freely engaging with humans, especially in hectic places like dancefloor, workshops etc.. A dog cannot ask for consent to engage and just goes ahead and does it - so for me, it is important that the caretaker of the creature, no matter how friendly and/or harmless, plays that role for the dog. My most negative, anxiety inducing experience is when a dog comes up to me (and they do like that!) and starts engaging with me in a physical way - be it super friendly like trying to lick my face or hop on me to greet, to less friendly. Both types of engagement are source of anxiety for me and I find myself unable to relax or enjoy the environment anymore and have to leave. For that, if you ask me what I would ask for, I would strongly prefer dogs to not be allowed into public gathering areas and to be contained in one spot such as perhaps dog kiez or a designated camper/parking area. If there is not way to guarantee that, I would like to ask to hold any dog on a leash in a public environment unless the owner is confident the dog will not engage without permission (highly unlikely). To sum up, my top request is to not have dogs roaming freely around me at any time - be it my tent or my body.

Sunniva

Sunniva May 1st, 2022 10:03

Hi @Universe (great name!), and thanks for sharing your viewpoints.

I especially appreciate you taking the time to share from the perspective of someone fearful of dogs. I would love to hear more about what could help you feel safer around dogs at Kiez Burn if you'd be available to share more.

I've been to burns with dogs and/or other pets, and I've been to burns without. Every burn is different, and we have the magic power to shape our regional burn to meet our needs and aspirations, which I believe is a beautiful thing. I'm more interested in talking about the premises of Kiez Burn specifically.

The goal of last year's Dog Trial was to find a mindful way to do this, and to avoid any negative experiences at the burn. The fact that a big majority of the community were either positive or neutral to this experiment was a big win for us! I don't need everyone to care about whether there's dogs at the burn or not, but I'll do my best to avoid negative experiences for others.

In the survey, several of those who shared that their experience was neutral, said they they didn't mind them being there, but appreciated having clear agreements and guidelines for dogs at the burn. Some of those with a negative experience shared that it was important to them that the number of dogs was restricted, and that they could have spaces at the burn free of dogs. This is all very valuable feedback that I'm devoted to honouring this year.

I hear you about the deadline, and I've extended the advice process with another week 🙂

U

Universe April 30th, 2022 10:17

Hi @Sunniva. I appreciate it that you are being really mindful in your approach, and went as far as collect opinions and feedback about last year's trial. Thank you for this work. I do read your proposal as biased as you are a dog owner and are motivated to bring your dog with you. I enjoyed reading the numbers and I see that the majority of people asked are either neutral or strong negative, which for me does not indicate the success of the trial as you name it. As somebody who is fearful of dogs, I would prefer a dog-free environment at KiezBurn. I believe that most burns I have been to stay dog and pet free, for a wide range of reasons. I would appreciate it if you looked for wider feedback and actively asked the KB22 participants to comment over passing this through in a do-ocratic yet biased way.

I second @Ale on asking you to seek further feedback from larger community. As already stated, it seems to me right now that you are looking to pass this through without really going through an advice process. I repeat myself as I find it important.

👤

Anonymous April 29th, 2022 20:29

Sunniva

Sunniva April 29th, 2022 20:22

Hi @Ale and thanks for engaging with this!

A. I'll have to make sure that all dogs meet the requirements (vaccinated, healthy, has a Haftpflichtversicherung, is kid friendly), and that the person who wants to bring the dog understands the responsibility involved and is collaborative and communicative. Other than that it'll be first come yes, but once this proposal can move forward there will be a deadline to apply to bring a dog as well. I don't imagine we will have that many applicants, but if you know of someone who'd like to bring their dog please do put them in touch with me 🤗

B. No Dog Kiez this year. Maybe next time? Basically any camp, space or art project can declare their space as a non-dog friendly space with signs or verbally. This also includes camps in the freecamping area.

C. As we already did so much prep work and collected so much feedback last year, I imagine that the process this year will be less extensive. That said I appreciate your input, and I'll make sure to prolong the deadline if more people voice this wish. Sadly I am not able to attend Spark myself, otherwise that would be a great idea too!

D. Thanks will do!

Ale

Ale April 29th, 2022 20:03

Hi @Sunniva - love this and was a big fan of the dogs last year. Limit of 5 dogs seems like a nice size. Some remarks:

A. What’s the process deciding on which dogs are allowed/who reviews applications? (First come…, Requirements in behaviour, friendliness, health, etc.)

B. Will there be a dog Kiez? If not, what’s the procedure concerning people in camps or freecampers bringing dogs? (I imagine camps could agree together if they are ok, what about freecampers? - I can imagine parking could help with setting areas especially for dog parents)

C. The deadline until 6. Mai seems short, Spark could be a great place to gather feedback, get acceptance and support for your proposal.

D. It would be lovely if you’d present this on discord and make a sub channel/thread, to get more feedback from a wider audience of the participants. (As talk is often rather sparsely visited 😉)

Lots of love,

Ale

Sunniva

Sunniva April 29th, 2022 10:41

I'll also be sure to add a paragraph about the dogs to the Programme in due time 🙂

Sunniva

Sunniva April 29th, 2022 10:33

As soon as I can move on with this proposal (hopefully by next Friday), I'll be sharing some simple protocols with Site Lead @Bee & Ranger Lead @Jessie for you to just look over and "ok".

Please see point 8. for details in case you have anything to share or remark about this:

"8. All Responsible Humans are completely liable for the actions of their dog. If an incident occurs where a dog have caused fear or harm during the event, such an incident is initially the responsibility of the Dog Lead. Depending on severity, Site Lead will make the final call, and the Responsible Human and their dog might have to leave the event."

Also @Jessie can Dog Lead have one of the radios from the Rangers?