Drinking water planning - Aquarius
This is a thread where we discuss water planning in detail and provide information to the Kieze. Anyone feel free to chime in and contribute to the water planning for Kiez Burn 2018!
IMPORTANT: IT IS ADVISED THAT EVERY KIEZ GETS A WATER CUBE!
All the info:
The current water plan and important info about drinking water:: http://bit.ly/2qXGo3b
If you have suggestions for changes, let's discuss it in this thread.
This map shows the water line and water collection points (each end of the blue line) confirmed so far from where we can distribute the water: http://bit.ly/2qYwa2n
There is a workshop/discussion about drinking water planned at Burning Pig (Sunday 12:30 for 1-2 h, meeting point at the camp). Would be great to get your ideas and opinions.
Daniel Tue 24 Apr 2018 8:36PM
I will try to figure out how to draw the lines tomorrow. I just tried to import it from the Feiland map but didn't work. I hope i didn't screw anything up.
I will also double check the number for the budget I gave you on slack. Might be actually more than 470€ when I see the distances on the new map.
Daniel Wed 25 Apr 2018 7:53PM
I don't have access to the map anymore so I cannot draw the water pipes at the moment. Will try again in the next days.
I checked the budget again based on the rough distance information which I gathered through the map, which does not take into account the contours, which means the real distances can be higher. I noted everything in the water plan but as I said, this is a guesstimate so far.
PE tubes: 550 m; inner diameter ID 25 mm --> 385€ or ID 20 mm → 250€ (cheaper but lower flow through) https://www.pvc-welt.de/PE-HD-100-Rohr-Druckrohr-20-x-20mm-DVGW
Hoses: 2x 50 m → 220€ but currently not available https://www.amazon.de/Berger-Trinkwasser-Schlauch-50-m-Rolle/dp/B001CUYBAM/ref=sr_1_1?s=sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1523543027&sr=1-1&keywords=50+m+schlauch
Connectors and taps: 100€ (what is needed will get clear during PigBurn)
Total estimate: 600 - 730€
Daniel Wed 25 Apr 2018 7:56PM
Sorry, this is more than I expected. PE tubes is a big part. I think a PE tube line to the eastern and western Kiezes would be good because the distance is too long for hoses (not that I really know that but I assume it).
Daniel Wed 25 Apr 2018 7:58PM
Do we still want to have the info around water on this site: https://sites.google.com/view/artists-kieze/?
walto Thu 26 Apr 2018 9:38AM
@danielaquariusdrin As discussed over the phone, here is the burning pig agenda/workshop tab: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x83_Pc27gkOONXtOGzARXGoQIo--Afb6AQLH4bfZcyw/edit#gid=1353074681
Daniel Fri 27 Apr 2018 6:52AM
@waldo I just saw that it is planned to dig the power lines. I assume this is gonna happen during burning pig? I was wondering if we could combine that with putting PE tubes underground for drinking water (putting them in the same trench)? I know we discussed before that we just role them back in after filling up the cubes but when we have the chance to put a drinking water line underground together with power seems to be quite handy. I think this would make sense at least for the big Kiez area in the east (in case the power line is going there). What do you think?
Daniel Fri 27 Apr 2018 7:26AM
@waldo I am hesitant to start a new thread because I find many threads a bit overwhelming in particular when the threads are essentially about the same topic. Therefore I edited your description of this thread to show that nobody needs to read the whole discussion because everything that Kieze need to know is in the water plan which get's continuously updated. I suggest to leave it to this one thread about drinking water to keep the discussion in one thread and provide the key information in the google doc, linked in the topic.
Thomas Schneider Tue 8 May 2018 7:49PM
Holá! There's a wateroutlet planned in the underworld kiez area. Is there any new information about
1) where it will be exactly? (on the hill or in the valley)
2) will there be a watercube or should underworld place one?
walto Wed 16 May 2018 12:35PM
@danielaquariusdrin did you already decide when exactly the water cubes would be refilled? The Tuesday or Wednesday morning? And is there a chance for applying for a refill? Do you need helpers for this?
Daniel Wed 16 May 2018 12:46PM
I am planning to fill the water containers Monday and Tuesday, also Wednesday would be possible for some but not for all containers). I think it may take two whole days since I can only speculate about the flow rate (Jan will ask Freiland if they can give us more details). Also the PE pipes I saw at Freiland were pretty thin (16 mm inner diameter). If they are planning to provide water through these pipes, the flow will be pretty low and to fill up 1000L can take a long time. A refill during the event can be possible for the Kieze which are not too far away from the water outlet points but I would definitly need help from the Kieze for that.
Daniel Mon 21 May 2018 6:27PM
Hi @waldo, @janthomas and @franzi6 , I talked to Robert today, who is responsible for water at Freiland and he said, that we need to contact the local council water provider (GKU Demmin) in order to get drinking water for Kiezburn. Specifically, we need to order/hire a Standrohr (which is basically a central water collection point with a water meter directly at the hydrant in the next village). Freiland has ordered such a Standrohr until 15/6. We might be able to just use the same Standrohr but need to tell GKU Demmin to leave it there. And it will cost some deposit. Before I contact GKU Demmin, can you tell me if somebody is taking care of it or if I should do it?
Daniel Mon 21 May 2018 7:27PM
Robert also said that filling up the water cubes directly at the hydrant would take just 5 minutes as opposed to 45 min at the end of the PE tubes (my guess was 50-60 min per cube). He suggested that using a forklift truck to carry the full cubes to the site would make things faster. Anyway, it'll be fine with filling up the cubes on site too as I was planning it anyway. Just in case a forklifter is still an option, I would go for it (@janthomas ).
And he mentioned that we need to take care of greywater/wastewater and that the council will get suspicious if we used 20 000L of drinking water but did not take care of any grey water disposal. I heard that grey water disposal for the shower water is organised already but Robert wasn't aware of anything. I guess LNT is on top of that (@andreasnoack)?
Daniel Fri 27 Apr 2018 6:36AM
nice, I added the drinking water discussion to Sunday, 12:30. Thank you!
walto Fri 27 Apr 2018 9:06AM
Hey Daniel, we will dig the power lines only right before Kiez Burn, during the build, not during burning pig. We do not know yet when the power equipment will arrive either. Not sure about putting power lines together with the water lines, not necessarily because of water leakage or so, but because the power lines are measured separately and not necessarily taking the shortest distance between the points that water needs to reach + digging power lines is a bit of a different job than digging water cable lines, since water cables are bigger. Also, sometimes power lines might go in the air.
1. timing: not sure yet, might be closer to the event than would be good for water
2. in terms of digging benefit I do not see much gain in doing that together
3. distances/how to put the cable will not be the same
However, @relativityrltvty knows more about power, what do you think?
walto Fri 27 Apr 2018 9:10AM
okido! I updated the description a bit with some editing + Will put a link to this thread then in the kieze newsletter. Would you mind crosslinking this thread into the Kiez Burn kieze organizer facebook group?
Relativity Rltvty Fri 27 Apr 2018 9:51AM
Daniel... we wont have any of the power equipment until the build of the event, so we won't be able to start power line digging until Saturday or Sunday of build.
If you are doing any digging then, and lines seem to run in the same general area, then it would be fine to combine them.
Daniel Wed 23 May 2018 7:44AM
Hi @janthomas, I talked to Silke Wendt from GKU Demmin (tel: 0 39 98 2827 817) and seems like the best solution would be extend the rental of the Standrohr until 27/6 and send the water meter reading from 15/6 (let's say at noon) to GKU Demmin. They can send then two individual invoices, one to Freiland and one to us. Does Kiezburn has an address for invoices? I'd need to send this address to GKU Demmin. They could also send the two invoices to Freiland or just one invoice to Freiland in case we wann split internally but might be easiest also for documentation to have an invoice for Kiezburn, I guess.
There is no daily cost for the Standrohr just a 150€ Deposit. This needs to be paid upfront directly at GKU Demmin. Thus it would be much easier if Freiland agrees that we just keep the Standrohr. Not sure who can bring the Standrohr back to GKU Demmin then. I can ask Robert what he thinks and if it is OK for them to take care of the Standrohr two weeks later then planned.
Let me know what you think (in particular about the invoice situation) before I go ahead.
Thomas Schneider Wed 23 May 2018 12:16PM
Invoice Adress to the Verein is
Angaben gemäß § 5 TMG: Berlin Burner e. V.
Altonaer Strasse 7
c/o Holger Weßels
Vereinsregister-Nr. VR 34476 B
Either Freiland would have to invoice us the amount of water that we used or GKU Demmin can invoice us directly. Would mean less additional work for the freiland people if we'd split the bill directly at the supplier and get our own invoice... so i'd go for that solution
Jan Thomas Mon 21 May 2018 7:43PM
The forklift will leave the site on Friday, as we have no need for it otherwise. What is agreed with Freiland is that the 2 grey water tanks underneath the showers will be there for us also and get emptied at the very latest after the event - or possibly during the event also if needed/wanted. Otherwise grey water can be disposed on site if it's detergent free - i.e. we need to push with everyone that they need to bring organic dishsoap and then it's OK to throw your dishwater into the bush.
Daniel Fri 25 May 2018 10:22AM
@janthomas Looks like it's no problem to get two invoices. I have send the Berlin Burner Address to GKU Demmin now for a separate invoice. We will need to give Robert 150€ deposit back on 15.6. that he paid to GKU. I assume there will be Kiezburn Cash floating around that weekend and somebody can pay him? I won't be onsite before Sunday. Also somebody needs to bring the Standrohr back to GKU Demmin on 27.06. and get the deposit back. I'll need to leave the Sunday before. Do you know anybody who can do that?
Jan Thomas Mon 21 May 2018 7:29PM
Thanks @danielaquariusdrin - would be great if you could call GKU and arrange please! would be great if you could please also double-check how the invoicing for this would work - so far it was discussed that Freiland is getting the water and would invoice us, but would be better if you can please check with them. Also please check the daily cost for the standrohr and I assume we need to give them an end-date - I'd suggest Wed 27 June?
walto Tue 8 May 2018 8:13PM
there will not be a watercube provided for Underworld. Please plan a purchase of your own. Storage can happen in the Shed. @thomasschneider6
Jan Thomas Tue 8 May 2018 7:56PM
Look here for all detail currently know about the exact location: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TMpIPdRuFsILaYx09BZXfvyWPpXyA3D-FZosSgNFQtM/edit#heading=h.17fa6096k1c6
walto Wed 25 Apr 2018 9:32PM
nah, all info can now go here. You can edit the top of this thread to keep it up to date with info that you want kieze to know, or I believe you can also edit the group's complete info: https://www.loomio.org/g/GQkcR2sL/kiez-burn-site-planning-water-power
walto Thu 26 Apr 2018 9:25AM
water tubes: https://www.sani-flex.de/schlaeuche/trinkwasserschlauch-profiline-aqua-plus-nach-ktw-a-w270-laenge-nach-wahl-1m-bis-50m-in-4-abmessungen-von-10mm-3-8-bis-25mm-1/a-311/
walto · Tue 24 Apr 2018 4:57PM
I put in a proposal for a high water pressure washer. wonna have a look Daniel? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CBfQr_Lm1_moqMWm2hNc1UAQm1GemGwW6SK0CWFh6wY/edit#gid=863318234