Fri 30 Jul 2021 8:18AM

Campervans in Kieze

MT Myriam TheWanderer Public Seen by 136

Number of campervans applied for permits are 44 on site - would like to cut this down per camp - suggestions, feedback, ideas?


Mareike Fri 30 Jul 2021 9:38PM

agree. that sounds like more than we had last year.. I would personally prefer to only have art cars or vans that have a super important purpose on site (i dont even know what that could be, maybe medical reasons or sth like kids sleeping in the van and parents should be close. Probably there are some legit reasons..). But maybe - if they don't have a proper reason why they need their car on site - then make it a requirement to make your van a fun art vehicle? :) too lazy to walk to the campervan area at night? then get a little creative! 馃槂But anyway I would just be super strict about campervans being INSIDE their designated camp area and watching out for cars being parked somewhere in the wilderness. and prepare for discussions though, I think I spent like nearly an h with one person and their vehicle last year...


CJ Yetman Fri 30 Jul 2021 6:23PM

@Cairn (Cl茅ment) is the Site Planning Lead and probably has the most skin in this game. I would guess that鈥檚 drastically too many. To me, more than one camper van in one kiez is totally unreasonable and a waste of very limited space.


CJ Yetman Sat 31 Jul 2021 8:10AM

Dang, that鈥檚 unfortunate. I definitely would have supported you in setting some reasonable limits! Next time.


Cairn (Cl茅ment) Sat 31 Jul 2021 9:06AM

I like option B.

It seems rational and acceptable to have limitations (as the space on site is really limited this year).
There could be some degree of flexibility based on the size of a camp in terms of square meters, entrusting them with the responsibility to make their space nice.
The issue I have with option A is that we'd suddenly make arriving on site with a campervan on Wednesday morning impossible, as it is something we did not communicate before and would potentially greatly impact the plans of some people (I assume).


CJ Yetman Sat 31 Jul 2021 9:11AM

Oh geez鈥. many/most of these will also arrive after gates open?!?! tagging @Jessie and @Cris because that鈥檚 a big burden on the Rangers.


Ale Sat 31 Jul 2021 5:32PM

Registration period is over, I fear :/

If you want to bring your vans, they will have to stay in the parking area.


CJ Yetman Mon 2 Aug 2021 8:30PM

Where will you park all these camper vans on-site if not in your camp? Just anywhere you want or has it been arranged with Site Planning @Cairn (Cl茅ment) ?


Alina Mon 2 Aug 2021 9:02PM

That鈥檚 the point! Could that be possible? @Cairn (Cl茅ment)


CJ Yetman Tue 3 Aug 2021 7:20AM

I would imagine now it鈥檚 rather late in the game to arrange such a thing since @Cairn (Cl茅ment) has been struggling for weeks to squeeze every Kiez into every last corner of flat surface inside the Gel盲nde. Seems like the parking lot would be a much easier, reasonable solution, no?


Cairn (Cl茅ment) Tue 3 Aug 2021 8:59AM

Damn don't you know the risks of summoning me 3 times in a row? 馃惂
But more seriously, the thing is that there is not really a space on site itself to put vans randomly, in terms of space as well as in terms of esthetics.
How many campervans did your camp have in the previous years Alina and how were they organized?
(FYI Cafe Wonderland will have all their vans on the parking area, to be away from the noise and make a nice groupof vans there, is that something that could be an option?


Myriam TheWanderer Fri 30 Jul 2021 9:56PM

@CJ Yetman @Mareike - I talked to @Cairn (Cl茅ment) , but as we put no restrictions on site so far I will need to reach out to the Kieze and ask them to reduce the numbers if possible. In the end, if they have the space within their Kiez and want to have them all there, I guess it is what it is. We literally did not expect for a single camp to ask for 7 campervan permits on site though. I will ask them to "pimp" their car, but I guess the question is whether they really will do it. Still, I think 3 campervans at the most is reasonable for a camp.


CJ Yetman Sat 31 Jul 2021 1:24AM

I don鈥檛 understand the logic behind having an 鈥渙pen鈥 registration, even promoting it on FB and such, without any rules about needing to justify them and no numeric limits. Not saying that was/is your logic @Myriam TheWanderer, just can鈥檛 wrap my head around how it gets to such a point.


CJ Yetman Sat 31 Jul 2021 1:26AM

I only ever remember there being 4-5 camper vans on-site in the past, not 40.


Myriam TheWanderer Sat 31 Jul 2021 7:33AM

@CJ Yetman it was discussed at Spark, when I brought up a restriction of campervans or rules it was shut down, and nobody backed the parking team up. I was told to take over the rules of parking of last year, and as I was not part of Korg it was really not up to me in the end. I am sure the next parking team can do it better now that we know. Its just super late now to discuss this...


Cris Sat 31 Jul 2021 10:08AM

Yes, option B would be my favourite as well.

Rangers have been communicated that no vehicle should drive around on site diring the event (with the exceptions of ER, delivery, art cars, production van) And that if they do, they have to escort them. So yes, if campervans arrive from Wed on may suppose a burden for rangers, plus an inconsistency in the rules.

With this unexpected restrictions, ppl may complain about this "rules" not being communicated before. If there's going to be emails to vans owners, maybe explaining how this situation so unexpectedly came to be could be useful. But surely you have that in mind already.

The Telegram post is great! 馃憤

Thank you for all your work, @Myriam TheWanderer !!


Myriam TheWanderer Sat 31 Jul 2021 10:27AM

I also like option B and have already started implementing it - I reached out to all the Kiez leaders who have a lot of members requesting campervans on site, to discuss among themselves.

Of course I also kept in mind that Kinderkiez and all medical / kitchen or art requirements are exempt - am in contact with the people required. As for late arrivals, I am making it very clear in my emails and on the permits, that they need to arrive before Wednesday noon - afterwards they are NOT allowed to come in. I already reached out to all the applicants who stated that they would arrive later, that they will not recieve a permit.

Thanks for all your input, lets see how this pans out in the next couple of days


Andre Nik Sun 1 Aug 2021 7:34AM

I didn鈥檛 receive that info. Was it a mail to Leads? Also, there鈥檚 a myriad of information flying over from Org, it鈥檚 easy to miss something.


Ale Sun 1 Aug 2021 8:22AM

Was in the A-Z email of Kiezburn to every ticket holder. And in the telegram, I鈥檓 guessing also on Facebook.


Andre Nik Sun 1 Aug 2021 10:04AM

Yes @Ale , so I missed this. Or maybe I applied and forgot about it. Could somebody in the team please check if there's any vehicle registered for Kiez Schlamagne (@Myriam TheWanderer )? I would still need a permit for 2 Vans to enter the grounds on Tuesday and Wednesday. Otherwise we will not be able to realize our Kiez ;)


Myriam TheWanderer Sun 1 Aug 2021 10:32AM

Hi @Andre Nik - we pointed it out on Facebook and in newsletters. Schlampagne has one delivery vehicle signed up for build which can deliver and move on site until Wednesday 11 am - do you need additional delivery vans at this point? I send out the emails with delivery permits for build this morning, along with the instructions. Hope that helps


Andre Nik Sun 1 Aug 2021 10:53AM

Great, thanks and i apologize for the inconvenience. I know it鈥檚 always a struggle if people miss communicated deadlines. I鈥檒l send the info over ASAP.


Andre Nik Sun 1 Aug 2021 10:45AM

@Myriam TheWanderer thanks for getting back to me so quickly. We have two transport Vans that need access to our Kiez for built and one of them needs to stay on site since it contains infrastructure and solar to power our Kiez. I鈥檓 aware I am highjacking a threat to have less vehicles on site with a request to have one more. But as we will only have a single van on site for the burn for the whole Kiez, I hope it鈥檚 a reasonable request.


Myriam TheWanderer Sun 1 Aug 2021 10:47AM

@Andre Nik - if you need 2 more delivery permits, please send the info on name of driver, email, cell phone number and licence plate to so I have the info, and I can send out the permits in the next day or two. Also please check spam folder


Myriam TheWanderer Sun 1 Aug 2021 10:49AM

@Andre Nik - it is, just please next time take care of the deadline. Again, if a campervan for structural purposes is needed on site, I need an email with all the info to the email given above, and we will start sending out campervan permits as of Monday night.


Alina Mon 2 Aug 2021 5:41PM

Thank you for all the effort you put into this topic! I鈥檇 like to give an input from someone who is part of a camp which probably applied for a lot of permits. The last years we never had an actual camping area. Since the underworld is mostly providing a dancefloor for the whole community, no one is camping in The Valley. our camp is used to split up over the whole Freiland area or park together with campers from other camps. And we haven鈥檛 been the only camp like this. I don鈥檛 see any scenario in which 7 of us would be parking together like a car park :D聽

I basically just wanna suggest to not make this decision simply dependent on the camps. There are also free campers out there who would prefer sleeping in a campervan. Maybe if we all spread out over the ground the 44 doesn鈥檛 seem so much in the end聽


Andre Nik Sat 31 Jul 2021 5:15PM

Hey, I completely missed this. Where can I apply for a permit for 2 vans for our Kiez?

@Myriam TheWanderer


Alex Kaos Sat 31 Jul 2021 7:38AM

As someone who invested a lot of time and energy into have a transporter/campervan with Kiez Burn being at the pinnacle of my motivation, and investing a lot of time and energy into the event and my Kieze, it would be incredibly upsetting to have to camp outside because there are too many other campers on site. Especially considering my camp is the furthest possible location from the parking lot.....

Although I do recognize the concern, and 44 registered vehicles is quite heavy, especially if 7 of them are in a single camp (that's almost a car park right, not a camp site).

Option A)

What about simplifying the process a little and seeing who has their vans on site for build, and allowing them to stay on site. So the vehicles that arrive on Wednesday morning need to stay outside.

  • Logistics and safety improves. We wouldn't need to provide volunteers to assist one of the excessive campers to drive on site.

  • It creates a clean line for decision making. If any of those 44 people are rejected they are going to hate that decision, having a clear line to decide "Sorry guys, there are simply too many camper applications for us to have on site, so we need to somehow draw a line".

  • Medical exceptions can be made, and I imagine Kinder Kiez might have some other valid exceptions (the participant is not just self-reliant for themselves, but having their kids sleeping nearby whilst they're in their camp may be necessary)

Off the top of my head I can remember about 20 vehicles parked from the central road south in 2019 (so not including the new + old saloon, DM Palace, Space Plants and Kinder Kiez). Do we have the figures for previous years? This link is empty I actually think we might have not been far off 35-40 vehicles.......

We have on the other hand lost some good parking space from the east side..

Option B)

Limiting it to 1-3 vans per camp also seems like a valid and executable restriction. The Kieze can decide who comes on site or not amongst themselves, relieving you of the responsibility (which I believe is totally correct to do). Deciding who deserves more or less could simply be a ratio of their camp size (1 van per 10/15 members?)

(i.e. "Thank you for applying for a permit. Unfortunately we have received far too many applications to feasibly fit all of the applied vehicles on site. We need to limit the number of vehicles in some way, so we have made the decision that only vehicles on site for build can remain on site for the burn/we need to limit the vehicles to 1-3 vans per kieze. Please confer with your Kieze to decide which vans are most important for your Kieze operations and let us know your decision)


Myriam TheWanderer Fri 30 Jul 2021 8:22AM

Hi guys - so I went through all the permit applications, and we are left with 44 campervans from 21 Kieze - my current issue is with 5 Kieze asking for 4 - 7 campervans to be parked on site.

I would like to cap the amount of campervans per Kiez to keep the event site from looking like a trailer park (nothing against trailer parks) -I would suggest 2-3 per site that are purely for sleeping. I would be happy to reach out to the site leads to discuss with their Kiez members. Does anyone have feedback on this, that I need to take into consideration?