Thu 30 Jan 2020 7:53PM

[Advice Process] Kiez Burn population growth?

W walto Public Seen by 171

A decision has been made

  • Who made the decision: @waldo

  • When was the decision made: 12.03.2020

  • Decision Summary: We will grow by 10%, to 1100 people total. Limited growth due to challenges in the pre-event orga.

This advice process is started to figure out:

  1. is growing the Kiez Burn Event desirable?

  2. How much growth is sustainable towards the amount of work involved in scaling up?

Please edit this proposal-thread how you see fit


Proposer (name, handle, etc.)


Proposer's role

I was guiding several Needs & Responsibilities in 2019. In 2020 I plan to guide the event team. Although I am also part of the Kiez Burn e.V. board, I am following this process as a participant, not a board member. My motivation in taking on this advice process (AP), is to get more experience in Advice processes.

My stake in this topic is that I would like to have a transparent & open discussion on this topic. For the sake of this AP, I do not have an opinion on if we should grow or not.

The advice process

A starting point

We sold about 1000 tickets last year. We will have our burn 17-21th of June but the exact location decision is still between 2 locations, one of which is Freiland.

I am starting this discussion with the assumption we do not want to decrease in size.

Another assumption is that we are not forced to increase in size due to financial pressures.

Gathering relevant info before posting

  • Census

    • 76% of the '19 participants attended a burn before (79% of those were at Kiez Burn)

    • 70% participated in a Kiez, 30% free camped

    • 74% believed the number of attendees to be just right, 26% thought it was too few

    • participation rates looked great

  • Realities:

    • most volunteer positions were filled

    • Missing realizers had to do with some event-critical roles such as:

      • security & fire marshalls

      • first aid

      • leave no trace

      • Fire safety

  • Facebook:

    • we have seen a 55% growth of the Kiez Burn Facebook group since 30/01/2019

    • 3200 members of the group are actively involved over the year

    • From this data, we can conclude that a ticket sale would get even more attention this year, with demand increasing with about 50%

Seeking advice

Here I am gathering advice from the people that are experts on the matter, and leads of areas/Needs that are most affected. This, with a focus on the more event critical needs & responsibilities. The question I want to ask them is “How much additional work would it be to scale your area of responsibility and can you do it?”

  • Event coordination (tagging last year's board who fulfilled this role): @Franzi @Remy Schneider @Patrick Baodu @Alexxx @waldo @Hanna-Maija @Henrik 🤖

  • Build/Setup: @Keegan & @Gur eilon

  • Storage: @dylan

  • Tickets: @Callum Macdonald / @Otto / @Jan Thomas no input

  • Volunteer coordination: @Veroca R. Sala supports 20%

  • Security & fire marshalls: @Patrick Baodu

  • Site leading: @CJ Yetman

  • Welfare: @aleksandrina

  • Gate: @Juli Finster

  • Parking: ??

  • Site liaison: @Jan Thomas

  • Fire Safety: @Alexxx

  • Water: @daniel dansta

  • Legal & Safety: @Franzi First aid needs to be professional, might be a blocker for going over 1000 people

  • Site planning: @Hanna-Maija

  • Toilets: @Remy Schneider and @Andy

  • Dream platform: @Henrik 🤖

  • Dream guidance: @Saskia (The Fuzzy Facilitator)

  • Power: @Sven Dudink

I will actively reach out to the people tagged if they do not see this post.


Often the argument against growth is that we do not want our culture to be diluted by more people joining.

  • during-event: given the low (25%) percentage of non-virgins joining Kiez Burn, this is a rather mute point

  • Pre-event planning:

    • there seems to be a need to align better between all on how we talk, reach decisions and execute. The question is if we are ready for more co-creators to join this process.

    • Could we address this concern to facilitate growth?


After input has been given by all the experts & people affected, a decision will be made. No timeline has been set for this yet.


Franzi Thu 30 Jan 2020 9:40PM

I agree with CJ. If we stay I feel strongly that we have capacity and the community to grow . I mean our decom was bigger than our burn <3

But if we move sites I am strongly against growing. Moving sites last time was so so much work that there is little capacity for other things.


Franzi Tue 3 Mar 2020 8:46AM

I think we need to apply our values here and find the sweetspot that allows for radical inclusion.


Jeff Spirlock Sat 29 Feb 2020 11:31AM

Was there a sign-up sheet for unfilled volunteer roles at the gate last year? If so, was each person entering asked if they were already volunteering? If they were not volunteering already then reminded that this event is made possible by volunteers?


walto Sat 29 Feb 2020 3:32PM

Tickets sold does not necessarily equate how many people are on-site at any given moment. If I remember correctly, we had about 80% usually that actually show up, but I might be wrong. @Jan Thomas or @Otto did you have any insight on that?

And at the moment, I cannot tell you what the decision would be, since I am waiting for the pause on decisions to be lifted (estimated to be next Saturday).


Purzel Tue 3 Mar 2020 7:37AM

I already have aapproval from the board to negotiate with professional first aid services, I contacted them and waiting for a response.


walto Tue 3 Mar 2020 5:26PM

thank you for your input!


walto Wed 5 Feb 2020 9:36AM

so that then also implies a higher cost per person attending given the additional cost in fire department and first aid. Gotcha, thanks


Purzel Sat 29 Feb 2020 2:11PM

I started to contact companies regarding first aid and security, so far I was under the assumption that I work with numbers around a thousands.

If we have a decision already about it, we should contact everyone it will involve.

Can I still work with 1000 people on site or should I upscale for my negotiations?


Jan Thomas Mon 2 Mar 2020 8:07PM

@waldo the no-show-rate has been around 7-8% last year, which was a bit lower than 2018 where we had 10% buying a ticket and not showing up.

having just discussed with Freiland what the impact on their growth has been in regards to restrictions from the Ordnungsamt, it seems that once crossing the 1000 people mark means we'd definitely need to use a professional 1st aid service i.e. permanently have an ambulance and 2 or 3 professional 1st aid people on site.


walto Sat 29 Feb 2020 3:33PM

census: but we do not have participation figures specific to free campers.

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