We'll drive our livestock back up that old hill next to the gate if y'all fine with that?

KamPalace (Registration form sent) would like to camp where the Drug Sluts were last year, as DS are not coming back, but some of its members are in KP. If anyone has a problem with that or would like to discuss, please reply here.

We plan to have 1 communal space open for all, where all members of KiezBurn could host workshops. We also aim to have 1-2 art installations/spaces in our area, as Dreams.

I'm horrible at online/google maps, can't really edit the map etc... Peace!

maybe ask a camp member to help with the google maps part?

Done. Note that the space is quite big, to also accommodate 2 art projects by camp members (to be later placed in the Art layer too) and a workshops space for all KB members - both indoors space and hopefully outdoor space if it's not too cold...

If the cowboys stay where they were last year I would like to know if everyone was fine with the volume of our camp.
We could either mark our spot as loud zone as well or discuss if the saloon should play music all night.
Thanks for your comments!

Pirates would also like to stay where we were last year. We have a ship so we need to be by the lake :)

please do not add layers. Your project is to be added on the layer labeled "Kieze" if you place a Kiez, and the layer "Art installations" if you want to build a wooden snail. You need to have it selected before adding a zone.

Also:

Please indicate the following information for the zone(s) that you add to the map for your theme camp or art installation:
- Name of the project (into the “name”)
- Everything else into “description”, including contact details (Facebook account, email address, phone number ...)
- If placing a camp, please put in the name of the the LNT lead of the camp.

Specifying contact information is very important for placement to work well. If the contact details are not indicated in the “description” field of your zone, your zone may be removed.

Hi y'all , we're a new Kiez and none of us have been on the site so finding it super hard to know where to chose a spot. We're a rather quiet camp with a focus on well-being, authentic relating and some morning rituals and would like to have some trees and be on flat ground- any recommendations for a good location? Thank you thank you thank you :heart:

Hey Carolin. I would definitely recommend that at leaest a couple of people from your kiez will make the trip to the site when ever the first opportunity is possible, perhaps when there is a delegation soon to check the storage situation? Stay tuned, I guess.
Personally I would recommend trying to find a space in the quiet zone. How many people are you going to be? The space where "Just Being" were located last year is quite big and could possibly be a good solution. In front of them, "Debka kitchen" camped and if you are a small camp that could work too. Also, where Lemon kiez and Susskiez camped could be optional, I have no idea of all these camps are planning to come back this year.
Perhaps that map from 2018 is available somewhere, I'm pretty sure it is, I hope someone can help with that so you can get an idea of those locations.
Hope this helps!
Daniel

Great advise from Daniel! the placement map ended up looking like this in 2018: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1msjKHoEac3zSPgnXQAC-81J1UVM8aHHh&usp=sharing

The spot of Just Being or around would be perfect for the Kiez you are talking about.

You are also always welcome to go visit the site! It is always open for the public: https://goo.gl/maps/sEfEpexgg6t We will also have a site visit and will let all the Kieze who registered know that it will happen :)

Entspandau kiez added to the quiet zone. We are a small camp but will offer a beautiful garden / hangout space away from all the noise and hassle.

Lemon Camp would like to take over part of what was Just Being. We are 20-25ppl with workshop space and cuddle space with a couple vans. We see on map Transformation Cacoon at Just being/Gigeridoo - What is this? Is this an enormous camp? Anybody know???

Option b is old space, but better at Just Being location.

Thanks so much @danielregev and @waldo !

Hi @dylanwarren I reserved that space for Transformation Cocoon as it was still available and I was advised that it 's pretty much what we're looking for. Our camp is new and our set up is pretty similar to yours, we're 20-25 people, and will be having a little workshop and chill space . I haven't been to the site so have no idea how big the area I reserved really is. Do you think it's big enough for two camps of that size?

@carolindandara Oh thats great! Yes, the area you have outlined would be plenty big for the two of our camps. Just Being and Gingeridoo (40ppl + ~15ppl) had that area last year. I propose we split that area in half? (We also are looking for a similar vibe.) If its okay with you, then i would talk to my camp to make sure we want to do this instead of our spot from last year.

Sounds good to me too @dylanwarren @carolindandara !
Another important thing to remember is that it is 100% fine to camp your tents anywhere else. Sure, it's nice to sleep next to the camp, but if it will get a bit crowded in that quiet zone of yours, people can definitely have their tents camped in other places if they'd like to - the site is def big enough!

@danielregev @carolindandara Cool - I confirmed that Lemon Camp is definitely on board to split that area with Transformation Cocoon. Just give us your final stamp of approval Carolina and then we can push on! Thanks a lot,

@dylanwarren yep sounds good!

@carolindandar I just sent a friend request on facebook if you want to talk off platform a little more about how to best utilize the space. Ultimately we can also meet on site prior to build to get the best layout, but i do have some ideas. BTW i looked into your friends app - its pretty neat! Thanks for the recommendation.

Hi @dylanwarren cool, let's chat on facebook then! Glad you like Autopia, are you guys going to use it?

Hey guys, i´m from Salon Leobard. We just placed our Camp and are wondering if someone could confirm for us that it is allowed to camp there. Also is this specific place is rather flat? We need it to be for our art piece (the Hammock Reactor). Please, let us know as soon as possible. Lots of love from Vienna.

Heya and welcome Salon Leobard!! I think the area you chose is actually on a hill’s side and not flat. I would recommend the area right next to it, starting from where the top right corner or your area is now and where you can see a red spot. There’s a little path leading to this area and it’s nice and flat. It’s also quite large - we had 2 camp in it last year. How many people will you be?

Thank you for your warm welcoming input. I´ll tell our group (about 25 people) about your comment and maybe we´ll place our Camp at the spot next to us then.

might it be possible that its impossible to add another layer to the map for adding your kiez (thats at least what it tells to me as maximum number of layers would be reached)? or - second possibility - am i just too stupid?

you can unselect the other layers to get to the kieze layer

@julian That happened to me. Use the path tool I think or a different option

I had to reset the content of the thread due to some mishaps. sorry if that means some things got deleted. Hope that didnt happen!

Hi KB! I'm Fish, the Kiez lead for Camp Schlampagne - we're a new camp of experienced Burners bringing lots of Schlampagne and a trashy wardrobe for everyone to discover their inner Schlampe around sunset. Thus, we'd like to be somewhere not too far off the beaten path, where people can stop by on their way to the party. Two areas we were considering: east of Underworld in the field where the Fire Truck was last year (remember the kids' show?), and north of Underworld on the hill facing the sunset (in the orange area on the map.) But, given that we are bringing a Sektwagen (a cart on bicycle wheels) and we want to serve schlampagne from it, maybe it's best we'd be placed at the east location so that we dont have to struggle with it on a hill. I'll mark that on the map, and this post will be a record of our reasoning! Happy to talk more.

So, I saw that the place we're thinking of is already marked by Bandana Republic. Happy to chat with them / orgs about finding a solution:)

Hi James! How many people you are?

Please add your contact info to the map. The contact for the Bandana Republic is there, fenfir@gmail.com. You can talk to them. If you are not a large camp I am sure the area is big enough for both of you.

VIDEO: https://photos.app.goo.gl/DNhMpjHBweVJBxMQ8
PIC: https://photos.app.goo.gl/wg4ghLdRFRSTyvFr6
PIC: https://photos.app.goo.gl/DKuofL13pqvyDjwb9

We are also 10-15 people. Currently chatting with zach aka @fenfir over email about if/how we can share. I am also sure it is big enough for both camps as I remember the area being quite large last year. Thanks

Pictures and videos from the site visit on Friday: https://photos.app.goo.gl/RkWfxARvvoa8vaju9
There is still several good kiez spots available - ask me if you need tips!

WHEN ADDING THINGS ON THE MAP PLEASE ADD YOUR CONTACT INFO. All the additions without contact info will be removed from now on.

@hannamaijahelvi I heard that the Saloon migh tneed to move due to sound restrictions. Is that correct? Because gate was interested in that location?

Hi. I´m from Salon Leobard and just want to confirm you are talking about Downtempo Saloon and not our camp. We will definitely play some music at our reactor but since it is a chill out place we won´t be a loud party zone. Please, let me know if we made a good placement decision there. (We are considering to shrink our placement in order to share with another camp since maybe we picked to big a place. Please, have some patience. We are discussing it in our group today.)

Yes this is about Downtempo and yes I am talking to them at the moment. :) xx

I am currently taking the idea of moving into our group without huge approval :-)
The deco team already worked out concepts for the space and a chillout space is also in the making. So we need to check how easy it will be to transfer this to the new space.

Luckily we still have almost 2 months to go :)
@janthomas Would you have some insights on the sound issues of the Saloon location? :) xx

@janchristiankaspar @hannamaijahelvi @waldo - the sound concern comes from the fact that downtempo is one of the louder camps now, but it's in a super exposed location where sound travels unrestricted in all directions. We have very tight sound limitations on our permit (45db at the house of any possibly affected neighbor, after 10pm). aThere have been issues with noise complaints in the area during the past year, so we're just trying to think about how we can set ourselves up in the best way possible and decrease the risk of getting noise complaints. This is the reason why Freiland suggest from their experience that bigger sounds camps should ideally be placed in the gullies which help swallowing some of the sound.... And given that the area of Süßkiez from last year is not currently used by a sound camp while the Saloon is currently planned in a super exposed location, i support the idea of considering a move from a risk management perspective ;-)

Another aspect to think about is how the sound system is oriented and configured. The sound should point east, i.e. towards the furthest away villages (rather than the superclose Broock, Hohenbüssow & Alt-Tellin). And last year Randy (who doesn't seem to be on Loomio) also outlined a technique of arranging the subs that would essentially prevent rolling bass traveling away from the dance floor.

So in summary I think we need to weigh up the additional hassle it would create to move the Saloon now AGAINST the question of effectively the sound impact can be managed in the current location as well as the risk of being shut down or having to run rather quietly.

Last year we aimed direction east and passed the soundcheck. A good thing is, that there are a lot of trees and bushes filtering the higher frequencies. Randy's technique is called a cardiod setup and we could get the technical requirements for that ready. Last year we limited the use of ultra low frequencies as well as setting limiters to keep noise pollution low (as in meet the soundcheck requirements). This will help directing the bass to the east (but make the sound direction east even louder). As the saloon was at least a little covered direction north and west we decided not to laser focus the bass to the east.

We won't (drastically) update the soundsystem, so we'll stay at the same volume like last year. We only invested in some higher quality components.

This was regarding the technical components and facts.

I support the idea of moving to a sound protected area, but so far the resistance from the camp of moving away from our location is rather huge. I will link this thread in our group, so that maybe people can change their minds or we find a different solution of being the quietish saloon after midnight (which will probably not happen when people are in party mode and say fuck it, we'll go loud anyway. So there has to be some protection to not ramp up the volume again).

A couple of things: The spot you have was, as far as I understand, never defined as a sound camp spot. If the Freiland people have expressed concerns about the noice levels I would personally respect their wishes for the continuity for our festival at Freiland. This would mean either to move or to keep the music down after 10pm. If you decide to risk it it's up to you. I personally will be very sad if we, because of something that we could've prevented, will loose this amazing location.

Also would you please check this: please turn on the layer "Transport - perimeter" from the left side of the map. The black lines will show you the borders of the area we are allowed to use. All camps must fit inside these perimeters.

Hi, I'm from the Saloon and I'm curious about a couple things. I don't think we've really expressed any intention to be a 'louder camp now' as Jan-Thomas put it. We have a soundstage but its not our primary asset. As far as I understand we met our soundcheck levels no problems with our relatively modest sound system last year.

The___Saloon has a lot to offer but we are really reliant on our space to make what we have planned work. We would welcome working out a solution to let us stay in that place rather than moving into one of the pits to blast music. Were not all about that bass. That bass... no trouble ;)

Hey guys, Salon Leobard again. We are confused (and a bit annoyed) by this transport perimeter circle thing we are supposed to sqeeze ourselves in now. Please, explain this to us so we can do stuff right and stick with that plan then. ;)

What exactly is the meaning of this circle and why is ist seperate from the rest of Kiezburn?

Is it really necessary that we stay within the boundaries of that circle? At one point we were asked to even share this space with another camp which we are sorry to say is impossible. We definitely want to camp all together because it´s our way of doing things and in order to properly maintain and supervise our art piece (which is a huge wooden structure of 18m in diameter).

As for sharing: Our best estimate sais that this might be possible if we don´t have to stick to your circle but can use the whole area. Please, also clear up for us if and to what extent in what area sharing is necessary. We are very willing to share with not to loud neighbours since we are a very chilled and communicative camp.

Right now we are attempting to plan ahead and see if we can make this circle work for us. Please, be patient with our drawings in the official map. We do this to come up with a plan for us and to show you that we really need that much space.

Lots of love from Vienna. <3 And thanx for any answers in advance.

It is a huuuge place... A bit separated from the rest of the site as well, but pretty cool! I would say, since you guys are only 25 peeps, and even with a big construction, a small camp next to it prolly is not such a big issue, but maybe it is :)

It is huge as long as we don´t have to stay within your circle... what´s up with that thing?

Hi, here is moony - another brain from the Salon Leobard camp.
I'm now officially joining this discussion since I'm helping monarchin with the camp placement (as of today, because I've heard that there are some issues and possible misunderstandings).

Our camp is not "just" 25 people sleeping and living, but within our camp there is also the Hammock Reactor (an interactive art project for all participants), which is a circular structure with 18m diameter. This is the core of our camp, which takes up a large space on its own. In addition to that, we have 2-3 communal tents, one bus (a proper big one, which is our transport vehicle for the Hammock Reactor) plus all the personal tents of camp members.

I have added the Hammock Reactor as well as the biggest communal structures we will erect. From the video and photo footage you guys provided us with (thanks! <3) I estimate that about 75% of the circular "perimeter" you have marked are actually campable, the rest is stony, bumpy or full with plants. We need the flattest largest space for the Hammock Reactor. So in order to camp with 25 people in this circular area, we have the very strong feeling that we need almost all of the area within the perimeter. If the perimeter ring is not 100% strict, then yes, I see no problem with shifting things around a bit and having another small camp (without huge art project ;) as neighbours. We love neighbours, but we don't want to end up arguing about the sleeping spots next to our communal buildings while we're busy building the Hammock Reactor in the summer sun. Sleeping in Hammocks is only fun for a couple hours ;)

Please, do have a look at your map (https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1fhpi3G7HS7TI4CG6PBHeF_3lgtDuK_XQ&ll=53.831776301711436%2C13.242956114587855&z=20&fbclid=IwAR24WXMsBPEcsqTjvJmiPnufs_4L5wjmh_kYSt3qMeWOt1Wv7F5rldIC0Oc) where we added our camp structure in real proportions using the ruler tool to measure meters! You will see very easily how the rest of the space will be used up by 25 campers.

Really, we don´t understand the circle you made and why we need to share this confined space. It would be no problem if we could go outside it´s borders.

@monarchin @moony1 @waldo @hannamaijahelvi - To help clarify why the "strange circle" is there in the first place: the owner of this end of the property is very focused on renaturalising the area, which is why the black lines on the map really show the boundary of the area we're allowed to use. The island/circle we negotiated to still get even though it's inside the area that's renaturalising, as it's a larger flat space without any bushes or so that would get destroyed - so we managed to get it, but with the limitation of only using it for a quiet camp and not a dance floor where lots of people come stomping... So it sounds like your art project is a perfect fit for the space.

Nobody will exactly enforce the circle, it's an orientation based on the agreement that we will prevent damage to any bigger plants and not camp massively outside of the circle, i.e. not go up into the hillside behind. So I think there should be no problem to flexibly arrange yourself in the naturally open area you find there.

I hope this helps to give context! Please also understand that the site only offers limited space which is why the difficult job of site planning involves trying to use the space as effectively as possible and that unfortunately means there's always some negotiation.

We get that. Thanks for the explanation. Now it finally makes sense. We promise to not disturb the area and stick to the parts where we won´t destroy anything.

Yes, our camp is a good match for such a case. So i guess we are good now and can keep this space. Yes?

Last question: Will there be other campers with us so we will need to take care of them too or will the circle be "ours"? Just asking so we can plan aahead and maybe even contact them early. As moony said, it will be less fun if we need to discuss too much with people taking space we really need. ;)

Thank you Jan! This really is the largest flat spot that we have. I personally am pretty sure there would be space for another small camp in that area but am not going to fight it right now - there is still several free spots left to be filled. I just have it in the back of my mind that we are a couple of hundred more people than last year so it will be tight. Any spot left empty will also be free for the free campers to take in the end and everyone needs to think about their use of space to make room for others.

Okay, thanx to all of you. So we will keep in mind that we should camp as tight as possible. Could you please inform us the second you think of placing another camp there so we can discuss placement with them? We will try to work it out then. <3

@hannamaijahelvi there still is some space next to Deine Mudda according to my estimates (where the production kitchen was last year). Not too big, but about 2/3rds of the production ktichen size?

Ok cool - do you see this as a potential spot for an art piece or a camp? :)

either can work. It is a pretty busy area, maybe a bar-oriented camp, or an interactive art project that matches well with sauna, volunteer kitchen, the palace, 420 project,....?

hey @hannamaijahelvi ! During the site visit we (monkey camp) realized our camping spot on the hill is not very practical (too far away from the gate and difficult to reach). we would like to set up camp next to the gate to not risk splitting up camp and gate but have the gate as the heart of the camp. I have now drawn a new outline for the camp on the location map. its right on the edge of the gelände next to downtempo saloon. For us it would be good if you (or someone else) can let us now where we can camp and which areas are no-go so we can mark and communicate this properly with everyone of the camp:)

Hi Darling! If you go to the map and from the left side turn on the layer "Transprt - perimeter" you will see the borders that we should stay inside of! Let me know if you can't find it xx

found i! Thanks !!

We camped outside of the main area last year way to the east on this triangular field. It turned out pretty amazing to have a quiet place to sleep and only a short walking distance to the actual burn.

Hey guys, mellow yellows here. I placed our camp between kinderkiez and Yalla Hambibi. We are 13ppl without sound system. We plan on having a flat chill area of about 8m². Can anyone tell me if this area has such flat space? We also have one Dream, it's the Hug Deli, but it's likely mobile and not considered in our space needs

Hi Carlos! Sorry I have somehow missed your post! Did you see the video from this spot? It's here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zgu1tJU5YuiqYFBt6

I edited your area a little bit on the map and added also the part on the other side of the drive way. Maybe that would be good spot for your Hug Deli? You can also talk to Kinder Kiez when you are onsite because I think they don't necessarily need all the space they have taken. So I am sure there will be enough space for everything :) let me know if you have any other questions!

That's extremely helpful! Thanks a lot

Hi!
Regarding the Hug Deli, I think it would be nicer to place it somewhere with more traffic as it relies on people walking by, getting curious and interacting. I guess the art plateau might make sense? Maybe someone has advice on a good spot? It is small, maybe 6-8 m²
Thanks!

We just placed it now where we think will suit best. It's somewhere now closer to the "main" road. We might still check on site if the plateau works better. It's not hard to move it around, although we don't to do it frequently. Thanks for your suggestion!

Goeiemiddag pretty people! We are a group of only 3 bringing an small puppet theater to Kiez from the back of our campervan. We are unsure where would be a good spot to do the shows, none of us have been to Kiez before. We have a small soundsystem for the music and vocals of the show en need space for one campervan and at the back of the vehicle space for max 20 people audience. Where would be a good place to set up?
Woop woop @hannamaijahelvi

Hey hey! I am happy to help. Would you like to add me on whatsapp or telegram and we can perhaps have a little phone call to see where wold be the best spot. Goes faster than trying to figure it our here :) My number is +491781836679 xx

Hey, maybe the area next to musotopia works good for you

Hi carlos, thanks! We found a spot nearby musotopia indeed!

Hi,
So I find the talk platform super confusing. Not sure where to start. Am I supposed to place myself? Or is someone going to contact me? Having never been to the venue and being to far away to make the trip before the event, I'm not sure how to place myself. Just need a small relatively flat quiet spot near power. Need enough space for the tent that will house the Electric Lazy Lounge and a campervan (5 to 6 square meters should be enough). Salon Leobard invited us to join their camp but we can't afford the camp dues and are self reliant. We wouldn't mind being near them as they may be able to help power the ELL if the event can't provide power.
Sorry for my confusion just wasn't sure where to take this conversation on the talk platform.

Are you the same electric lazy from the big burn? You rocked my goddamn world in 2014.
Firstly yes, place yourselves on the google map. Find an area thats inside the thick black bordered region and isnt taken by another camp and make a polygon and label it with Electric Lazy and your contact info and # of people. Its kind of first come first serve and if you really want to contest an area you can simply write directly to the person on the area you want and figure it out.
If you cant find any available space on the map keep posting here and maybe someone is down to share. How many are you? We could discuss if we have enough space for you in the Camp Schlampagne area (blue, center east of map) but would need to chat logistics, power, and sound. Power costs €, i'm pretty other camps wont be down to cover your power budget included in theirs, but there are plenty of taps around and you can pay your fair share when it's all tallied up at the end (maybe using a watt meter on your specific outlet?)

OK I put it on the map. Have no idea if that's going to work or not but it's on there. Between Bandana Republic and Downtempo Saloon.

Heya! Sorry if it's not clear who to contact! You can whatsapp me +491781836679 or message here on talk to talk about the placement. At the moment you are placed on a drive way which is not optimal. :) I would have some suggestions for you but might go faster if we schedule a little phone call! x

James Fish thank you. Yes this is the Electric Lazy, although, our large lounge that we take to BM is still in the states, we will be bringing our smaller 2 person loveseat version.

Hanna-Maija sent you a whatsapp. Would love to hear any suggestions you have thanks.

Hellow :) I just wanted to ask where the freecamping space will be since we will need the space were it was last year for the basic bitches camping (we had to share it already last year, this year we cant.) and i moved the toiletts a bit since they were like in the middle of our camp and we wouldnt enjoy poop smell in our kitchen :)

Hi Melina! Free camping is allowed everywhere where there is space (except the plateau). If you check the map and turn on the layer transport-perimeter you will see the borders of the area we can use. For me it seems there is still lots of empty space in your corner of the area.

What it comes to toilets I would ask @remyschneider before moving any toilet locations yourself.

/HM :fire:

Hi @hannamaijahelvi or anyone from the spaceplants, we have placed our Spießer Camp on the hills where the Monkeys were last year and now the Spaceplants Circle planted themselves on top of us without any contact information. Do you know who that is so that we can communicate?

Thank you

Hi, I am not sure what to do here. I have said I will remove any reservation that hasn't got a contact person attached... @lisa111 do you have info who these people are? :)

Btw I think where you have marked the Spießers is not in the same spot than the monkes were last year. See last years map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1msjKHoEac3zSPgnXQAC-81J1UVM8aHHh&ll=53.83261419051285%2C13.240213460886594&z=18

This is the email from Spaceplant kiez lead Jan Möller: mr-j-m@gmx.de . He might be offline for a few days so you can also try 2_so-mun-ya_2@riseup.net (Sophia Yamka Muna), julian@familiespeer.de, mail@danielpietschmann.de (Daniel Pietschmann) who are all from Spaceplant

Hi @hannamaijahelvi and @lisa111,
Thank you, Eleonora from Spaceplants contacted me and we will work it out :) also thank you for pointing out that I might have marked the wrong area. I have changed the area a little.

Awesome! Please if you talk to her let her know that they need to add their contact info to the map immediately! :)