Kiezburn Date: 13-17 July 2022

There are two events happening on site (or nearby), Freiland Event: 3. Juni 2022 – 6. Juni 2022 and Schloss Broock Event around the 22. Agust 2022. Due to noise issues we are asked for 3 weeks space between the two events, which means that KB can happen between 24.06 (3 Weeks after Freiland) and 29.07 (3 Weeks before Schloss Brook). To add to that, from 06.07 to 10.07 is NoWhere happening (Spanish burn). Thats the info I can add to your question, for our camp (Underworld) will be actually better middle of July considering that lots of us are going to Boom Festival in Portugal (which is at the end of July).

I'd argue it's a but arrogant and prejudiced to assume someone you don't know or think has never been to kiezburn has no burner experience - perhaps you could add that to your nettiquette? Burning existed before and exists outside of Kiezburn - and that's my closing statement as I don't want to drag this any more off topic.

Yeah, Boom Festival is in my calendar as well. I’ve had a ticket for years now and don’t want to miss it.

Every open, non-hierarchical and fluid organization organizes itself a little differently – that was just some context on how we make decisions here (or at least try to:)) and how you can get involved. My intention was more an invitation to you to participate. There will be a kick-off meeting on January 13, maybe we'll get to know each other in person there? I would be glad.

@Paul aka Khromo There's no "decision" to be made until contracts are signed or other binding agreements made. In a previous year, some people had even begun the permit application process for Freiland while another group of people was still actively looking into alternative locations. I haven't seen much initiative recently to use another location, so I suspect there's a very high chance that it will be at Freiland again since that's much easier to achieve relative to moving to a new location. Big changes like that require a lot work, so if there isn't a bunch of people doing that work, it ain't gonna happen.

How about we merge the two festivals? We could call it ki-boom.. ..

That is an interesting sentiment to keep in mind for further changes on our nettiquette. I struggle to see how can extra information impair someone. I am assuming I miss something. I'll reach out privately to talk about this @Paul aka Khromo

I agree on not to deviating this conv off topic.👍

Someone is already wriggling with excitement :) the info on possible dates is from the protocol with Freiland – they suggested a few weekends next year.

This one is an important decision that should be made by the community. The long-term goal or desire of Freiland is to find a fixed date to simplify planning and not to surprise the lovely neighbors with a different date every year.

So it matters a lot when other regional Burns are always held and should not be the decision of only a few camps. There will be a kick-off meeting soon, come there if you want to get involved! It always takes a huge effort to make an event like Kiez Burn happen, and there are certainly still a lot of people needed who help to make this a reality in 2022.

There is no main orga doing magic or anything like that. Without the immense effort of many other people from many other camps, or even free campers, who take care of things, there would simply be no Kiez Burn at all! Simply everyone is trying to give their best...

Hi @Paul aka Khromo! Thanks for asking this question. I'm wondering why some Kiez Burners want to move to a new Gelände but nobody gets actively involved here...? We need to discuss pros and cons in order to come to an informed decision – hard facts and not what is theoretically possible. What does it mean to move? How expensive is it? What are the rules? Is there a new storage barn nearby? What date can they offer us? If no one takes the lead and provides more info, we will for sure stay with Freiland. There is no central orga that does that just because someone wants to do the burn somewhere else.

So a decision was made on the basis that no decision being made counted as a decision! Noted! :)

I wouldn't call it "a decision was made..." 😉 there have been several call-outs to get involved and to provide further info on new possible venues – only that inactivity simply leads to no result. There was an open discussion about a vague idea ("do we want to move to another venue?"), but neither has anyone presented hard facts on another potential venue, nor has someone stepped up as a location realizer so far. So everything will probably go on as usual with Freiland.

If you want to learn more about what the principle of consensual do-ocracy means for Kiez Burn, check here. It's the power to decide on an idea, which should be with those who carry out the idea (a.k.a. realizers). Sufficient energy should be put into (1) exploring if this idea will truly benefit Kiez Burn as a whole, and (2) making sure this idea is consented to by other Kiez Burn leaders who would be affected by a decision on this idea. Here's some info on advice processes.

If anyone in the community wants to get involved here, it needs to be done now – because in order to proceed with planning, we should decide on a date in January. @Paul aka Khromo

You are.

I was asking if the decision had been made. I got manspained as a result.

A simple 'yes' or 'no' would have been sufficed instead of assuming I had no idea what burns or advice processes were.

Hey Paul,

please remember our netiquette for talk.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Z2AlDoUYn5yUbZYAJ_ww7XLEcWst9Qu2/view

As a Moderator I'm reading most of what's going on on talk and I perceived your tone as often crossing the line of not being constructive or supporting. I'm sure you don't intend to transport your point that way.

Hi @Paul aka Khromo I guess Kate (nor I) know who you are, how involved are you or what you pursue and, preferred (as I usually do), to not assume that people know rather than the opposite.

You could put it in a different way and say: "thanks for the explanation, I am aware of the process, my question was whether the decision has been made or not as it is not clear to me now".

Lets assume good intentions and react accordingly 😉 i personally assume good intentions from your comment but read a discontent for having been provided unnecessary/unsolicited information to you. Is this correct?

Happy to hear you stick around kiez burn and other burns. Let's make something nice and spread some generosity and understanding while caring our words which sometimes can hurt or sound unappreciative.❤️

I know how it all ticks I've been around a bit :). Kietburn is a game of 90 minutes at the end of which the Germans have a Techno party in the woods :)

Hi Paul, as part of the „game“ you can help create it. If you’re not interested in actively creating, please don’t talk down to those who invest their time and energy. If no one is stepping up, and the ones who are, get criticised unfairly, maybe there won’t be a future „game“ where you can „play“. :( I’d like Kiezburn to continue on. Please don’t take your defensiveness in form of frustration and anger out on other people.

If I’m misinterpreting your message here, I’d be very thankful for a constructive clarification. Thank you :)

I will definitely be at Fusion Festival 2022 from 29.06.2022 to 03.07.2022, likely a few days before and after as well. Likely some other folks will want to be there as well.

So it's definitely at Frieland, then?

start a doodle? :P

Hi Anna, could you explain how you came to the conclusion that end of July would be the best date for KB22 to better understand what influencing factors you have already considered? Thanks!

We was speaking about the date in the Underworld group and I also spoke to some people of Cafe Wonderland and nubicuculia. Atm it looks like the best option for kiez Burn would be end of july which is unfortunately also the date where "Boom Festival" is happening. Since it's a really rare festival (just every 2 years) and quiet far away to go there, a lot of people that got tickets would really love to go but also would love to participate in Kiezburn. At the moment it is not shure if we could make Underworld even happen on this date, since we would maybe lose a lot of people. I would propose to start thinking about the dates again and see if there would be another possible date that doesn't collapse with Boom festival. A lot of people would be really happy about it! Not just from Underworld but also from different camps from what I heard.

:)