@Martin K the water situation is uncertain yet, this will have to wait till after 18th of juli when freiland has their event, i can rent a ramp for 50 euro from the power supplier, we receive it with the power materials, but maybe just buying one might be a better solution, we should have a fair amount of extra budget this year with the 2 vans, after the event we have space in our basement to store it together with the build tools in our basement (or any other place)

Yes, she does, although unclear yet how much. It may be very few things. But I guess KB has nothing in Berlin that needs transport on site, unless it would give a hand to potential Site Lead (@CJ) and Rangers (@jessie) gear transport.

@Cris Production needs probably to transport power gear to lower the costs of transport. The power provider charges over 700 euros only fro the transport. So that production is considering performing the transportation of power stuff ourselves. Is all in the thread

@Veroca R. Sala It seems to me, it does :)

I'm in KB General Build on Saturday, Sunday and Monday, and on Sunday I'm designated driver. so I wont be missed in DM build spreadsheet :) On Saturday I'm with Kitchen build team, but happy to do whatever makes more sense.

Leute, thanks a lot for all this amazing orga! I'm trying to catch up, because it's suddenly really a lot to read everywhere. I hope I understood the basics at least.

Mostly I want to confirm, what I had been saying in parallel channels:

I'm happy and available to drive the van on Friday B->F Also to help loading/unloading it. I'm not driving it back in Strike, though. If I understood it right, that's sorted out, right?

I updated the spreadsheet with my name there.

On Sunday on-site, as a designated driver, I'll put a leash on me and be your bitch.

cool, so apparently Bee who is in the kitchen team can drive to Greifswalder with Fabi to do groceries I can also join if needed

Right! hi, @Caro let's talk details!!!

Ha martin ,thanks for the hard work making this scheduele, the ramp and the cables/generator are together from the same spot

yes! talked about it on the weekend already, house of plenty will be transported, the rest rather not.

oh i see... i guess it is the last one then. i will put my stuff in there. This is a product of DM/production mix up. the kieze transport wont be needed at all.

agree, the kieze sheet can be deleted. It will only be House of Plenty + maybe a new free campers kiez that might be created last minute. We are encouraging free campers to format kiez,

Awesome @Martin K thanks for updating, Would you copy-paste this sheet onto the body of the thread so we can all work on it from there?

otherwise, naturally, you are the only one able to edit your own comments, ❤️

• curious who will be driving from Freiland to Berlin on Saturday Evening the Van#2?

• On Sunday it is clear, we said it will be Martin, Melinda, and 1 House of Plenty (HOP) Kiez member driving to Freiland. The HOP driver will drive back to Berlin on Sunday evening to load the Kiez gear on Monday morning and drive back to Freiland.

So far is looking goooood!

Seems like a reasonable thing to own to me 🤷

oooh hah! i just understand this function... great (i updated the production list with the stuff from my muddi sheet)

Buy buy buy

Yes Please for purchasing

@Veroca R. Sala Sorry, only read this now. I think the best way is to let Kieze organise their own transport, but help if some things (only Kieze related, not personal items) become a problem. For example, UnderWorld is organising 2 pick up points for everything that needs to be transported to the site (deco, build material, technical equipment, bar, and kitchen items) and it will be transported by some of our vans or with the trailer that we organised. But now it seems like we will have 2 fridges that might become a problem (don´t fit into any of the available options) and only because of the fridges we might need to rent a very expensive van. In these cases from a Kieze perspective we would appreciate support from KORG if - for a few special items that are critical to bring, but needed and make the Kieze transport system complicated. We are trying to combine forces with other Kieze, but not sure if it works out. In return, we can offer a trailer for everyone to use to transport items on site/to/from storage.

Would be great if there is space, we can also check for a driver, we have quite some!

Question from finance:

Hey man, I just spent about 30 minutes trying to get my head around this thread and am still very confused. Lots of people saying lots of things that don't add up to me (and I'm in mobile making things 2ice as hard).

So I need to understand from a finance perspective what's happening.

How much of the vehicle rental costs come from build(+ kB kitchen), power and deine mudda? Clearly all 3 are using the vans, but how is the money being split? @Sven Dudink @Natacha Kromatik @Max @Veroca R. Sala

Who is covering the 2500€ excess (5000€ if we break both vans?)? That is not in the kB budget and would fall on all the drivers if something bad happens at this stage.

I also don't understand why the ramp limit of 1 ton affected anything. We didn't need to load the entire 1.6t at the same time right? What am I missing here.. @Sven Dudink

And thanks for all the work, it's clear this was a very complex set-up.

Hey Alex, thanks for passing by, and yes, it has been a complex topic.

Budget from Build: we have requested how much is the budget from Build and haven't gotten a clear answer but something along the line "it's okay, we have budget from covid" this has been an informal answer over message telegram which you will not find on this thread unfortunately. info given during a Korg meeting and it is in the meeting notes

We needed to close the deal soon cause we seem to have missed a good deal before( 1200euros deal) because we took too long to wrap up our needs. Now we dont have that cheap deal anymore, we got a new deal which is not as cheap.

Budget from Power: as it was communicated previously and it is in the body of the thread money coming from power is 700-800 euro.

Volunteer Kitchen: Production is using one of the vans on Saturday to do all groceries for the General volunteer kitchen

Deine Mudda - House of Plenty and other camps will be using some space in the van to transport some stuff/gear/ on the Monday / Sunday by using the van #2 as Kiez Burn Org have expressed in the beginning that kieze that needed help would probably have some help fro KBorg.

I am updating this thread now.

thanks for those important remarks.

1. i asked for other insurance options, but they dont have any. they assured me that small things like a broken mirror can be solved easily (by themselves, doing little repairs all the time). They also don't worry about minor scratches. Still this leaves the drivers with quite some risk. And yes, I am concerned, but I don't know how to deal with it if there is no Vollkasko...

2. I agree it seems weird, but power demands this. the only other option would be to return one van wed-sun, but who would do that?

3. Great, let's see what car/people we could (ab)use for that.

   (edit: my plan was to have a couple people on both sides, storage and drop off at KB, pulling stuff in and out, maybe that's easier)

4. drivers will be told to drive responsibly I guess?

5. I will collect the licences of drivers this week, only those will drive (except the one occasional exception...)

6. What? Really? So you would (only) have to be a member of Kiezburn to drive? - I asked at the rental and sure Kiezburn can rent, but still all drivers have to show their licenses, so it doesn't seem to make a difference.

Hey Alex,

I know this is confusing... thanks for tuning in.

So first the bad news: the rental realized the return is in the evening which makes it another rental day and they need to add 130 to the bill, making it 1690,- total rent cost. Damn.

As I understood budget is: DM doesnt have transport budget but also not much to transport, Power brought 840,- budget (which would be the transport cost if not done by us), the rest is production budget.

To try to explain it short: we need to transport power (840,- budget) ourselves, but people need to be able to drive the vans (license B), then one van needs to be on site sat while the other goes B-KB bachc and forth, which made two vans necessary.

And yes, I thought we need to load power all at once / have it on site on friday.

There is no other insurance possible - what shall we do? I feel unable to judge the driving abilities of Kiezburners (I personally never had a scratch), but still see the high risk of ending up with repair costs.

Sounds Good Martin!, thanks. Just some notes about the drivers just to be clear about it

Drivers

We still need drivers for:

• the storage tours (+ ca. 6 helpers) sat-wed (especially for strike) - This is managed by the build crew we dont need to coordinate this, we (I ) need to collect the driver licenses from the volunteers that will drive from storage to site during build. I only need to know by when do you need this "paperwork" so as to have it ready on time for ya.

• Fri6 9h-18h (power to Freiland and back to Berlin) we agreed the two vans will remain on site on Friday Eve so as to make the groceries in Greifswalder on Saturday Morning for the General volunteer Kitchen, no?

• Sat7 9h-16h (Food & DM to Freiland) - is @Bee shopping or driving too?

• Sat7 evening (drive back to B) - driver from Underworld @Annette

• Sun8 evening (drive back to B) - driver from House of Plenty to be confirmed, this will be the ideal.

• Mon9 House of Plenty load - How big/heavy is your load? @Caro T

Does anyone have more info on kinky kiez asking for help for tent+kitchen stuff?

My Opinion and suggestion to move forward from here:

it looks like the cost of this whole thing has gone up quite a bit from what we expected. I propose to make a deadline and make a decision if:

A. We are moving forward with the 2 vans as it stands now

( it was supposed to cost 1400 euros in total and now we are going up to even 3000 euro with the full insurance). Moving forward with this plan would mean using extra money that had been budgeted for Covid, as it was also informally "approved".

• @Professor Kaos considering that the KBorg has offered help to the kieze on power on transport and we haven't given any of these yet. Im only trying to layout options here, not personally interested in either of the following options. As long as we have transport my interest was to at least try other possibilities

B. We move forward with the 2 vans BUT

Requesting money to the Kieze as collaboration ( doesnt make any difference the 50 bucks IMO now that i see the numbers, it should be more.

C. Or we go for the previous every-year-plan as it follows:

• pay transport of power equipment to the power company (which by now raised the cost to around 1000 euros)

• pay around 1300 + insurance for a production rental van.

• We dont help the Kieze

• Groceries for the general kitchen need to be made on the Saturday morning early before Build starts ( at midday) so the van can be used to drive up and down from Storage.

  Option c, sounds rather silly to do atm, cause we will be almost reaching the budget from option A, and B, but only having one Van. Im not sure how to solve this puzzle amigossss!!!😆

My driving capacity is limited (I have never driven in Berlin). I also have to work on Saturday afternoon)

hehe, Thanks Caro! there is a Talk Manual, find the link to the master guide of Loomio on this thread + some general info on how we use it. https://talk.kiezburn.org/d/gKGZpRxN/how-does-talk-work-at-kiez-burn-

@Luu Sierra I guess a driver will pop up at some point 🤞 just to keep in mind, production might request some Money for the extra km; This will be considerably less $ than if you guys had to rent a van yourselves.

I see... you and I suggest the same option 2 only that I call it option "B" on this comment thread https://talk.kiezburn.org/d/HWajQVi2/build-transport-production-van/107

Ok, so to my understanding, we do not have to get the insurance through the rental company, there are external providers that can do that for much cheaper. A quick search brought me to 22,50€ per day (no idea about the added costs).

@Martin K There is a petrol calculation for 6000km in total? The site is 220km away:

4 trips + 50% extra for fluff and faff = 1320km

(One can drive to Amsterdam and back twice with both vans and still only hit 4000km... What have I missed here?)

If I've missed an important power update, that we pick the equipment up from or something, then I am would highly advise we don't use 4 volunteers X 20 hours to save 800€ of power transport costs. Please let me know what I can't read in here.

@Sven Dudink can we still simply pay the power company for the transport at this stage? (If we have to drive 500km+ one-way to pick up the gear I do not see any saving in it).

If we only have 1 production van (780€), then our costs rapidly reduce (we're within the free km usage, only ~250€ external Vollkasko insurance, petrol costs drop to max 700km ~80-100€)

Total of 1130€ Inc Vollkasko. (+800€ Power Transport)

Total solution = 1930€ and Inc minimal risk, and significantly less volunteer time.

(+140€ for ramps that are cool anyways)

What am I getting wrong here?..

i hope you wont miss KB as much as we will miss you...

6) we used lex and robben in the past years, both are about twice the price we have now. that probably is, because we got a vollkasko, i presume. So I really don't understand the difference. And if you rented from lex or robben you def had to show the license. So I don't get the advantage here.

1) that's cool for the individuals, but still worrysome.

thanks for your thoughts

with the given demands I don't see a way around 2 vans. (=> getting power on site friday, having a van on site sat morning, buying food and drinks before sat eve, getting shit on site til monday, same on strike)

you find my km calulation in the column to the left. (I took 250km per ride with a bit of driving around bringing shit) - and it's more like 10l/100km - this would be ca. 600lx1,4eur=840eu

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1znLQhPg7x5YKXPVyNRY13PhX71Vgh6wG4TIlmLEpeRo/edit#gid=1930823044

I really feel this decision is getting over my head, because I don't know enough (budget, demands, risks, responsibilities...)

Ok I see. Basically most of the cost of the vans comes from our handing of the power transport.

My vote is simply pay the company to handle that. The main production van only had to come from Berlin-KB once, and then return after strike.

The above calculation shifts if we order it from lex, but it might actually get cheaper (we paid c.a. 800€ for the rental + ~200€ for the damages (Teilkasko 500€).

In my opinion, just book the lex van with Teilkasko of 500€. We use it for production.

Pay the power company the money they clearly earn to transport their shit (because we can't do it cheaper).

End of story. Make magic happen. Boom.

keep on rocking it in the van world! Renting vans always was a pain, happy someone is championing it :)

Hey @Caro T ... sorry we haven't brought any official update to this thread yet. But looks like production will not be able to rent the two vans in the end. The company we were gonna rent from didn't have the vans and other companies are out of our budget. tagging

The Production van could eventually help dismantle all Lemon Camp stuff. @Natacha Kromatik I think this is in the build agenda/plan already, but double-checking that the build team is loading and unloading all Lemon Camp gear from Storage to the site. Correct? Thanks!

Nice! I can volunteer to do easy drives (just not in Berlin city) for myself. Antoine, our strike kitchen lead, can also drive, and maybe Fernando. I’ll send them this info. Thanks for your hard work, Martin! ❤️

@Martin K thanks for the organizing of all of the transport stuff ,it has been a long and complicated ride getting all of this done, but the van is reserved, and we can move forwards

if for whatever reason this van also cancels on us i would suggest we use one of these as a transporter😆, it might even fit the power gear:

o m f g
that would be so brilliant, a three day bike tour with aaaall the stuff.
next year.
cheers & thanks soo much too for YOUR hard work!
@verocarsala
we can add drivers, drivers licenses can be shown after renting, but need to be with copy of ID.

site leads hasn't reached out to production to request moving any gear from Berlin, so I would assume @CJ Yetman as this sorted? in any case, I think its only one box.

@Cris we should be resolving from DM next meeting especially the logistics, what do we really need to transport from Berlin so to figure IF there is enough space in the truck for all stuff ( production power gear and camp stuff)

I think this is more about WEIGHT and not much about volume. So we might end up with a big truck half way empty.

🔍NOTICE @Sven Dudink the production van cannot be a super truck cause the Build volunteers only have regular driver license and they need to drive up and down from storage to site during Build Hope this makes sense and we can make it work some other way. Are there in the market smaller vans with lift?

Yes, transport is a topic tomorrow. I don't think there are small vans with lift. A forklift would be needed. i think thats why its 700eu. I spoke to Max last week and since most is in the storage, DM transport might be small. But there might be more DM stuff coming since planning just started? So is there or will there be a production transport lead? I am willing to help, but only if other responsible persons have failed or are indefinitely missing. Also: does anyone know if tere is a chance to bring stuff to the site any time before 6.8.? (either in the storge or on site somehow?)

@Sven Dudink

Yeah 2 transporters will work,just and idea, since the one with lift has less cargo capacity, maybe get one with and one without, maybe a bit over creative but you can than load and unload transporter 1 with transporter 2 when standing back to back, else you will have very little capacity left

So summarizing:

• We cannot pick things up on Sunday, because its Sunday and the provider is closed.

• We need to transport preferably on the Friday and have the van ready to use early Saturday for Build.

We need to transport 1.6 ton in total ( cables and power stuff)

Option #1

We could rent 2 vans ( for what we need two drivers tho)

• Van N1 with lift: can transport 1 ton.

• Van N2 without lift : can transport 1.7 (? to douple check this)

• We can Load VanN2 with the Lift of the Van N1 ( passing on- rolling from one to the other)

• We could transport all weight with these two at once

VanN1 could be Deine Mudda and VanN2 could be x production.

Option #2

If the vanN2 doesnt hold 1,7 ton but less, then we could also split the load.

• VanN1 & VanN2 depart on early Friday transporting part of the power gear, drop it off at Freiland with the early arrivals and the drivers drive back to Berlin. ( overnight and good rest )

• Saturday load the vans with the rest of the power gear in VanN2 and Deine muddashit in VanN1 and go to Freiland.

This way we not only have the production van and camp van rented but also save some power budget. DM camp should be sharing somehow the expense of their rental... not sure how o calculate that..

I might be missing some pieces in this puzzle....still the solution is not paying the provider the 700 coz, as I said, these assholes dont provide with lift, and we dont want to break our backs with these heavy weights,

thanks, i might come back on that offer. could be: you driving the 7,5t on 6.8. back and forth and me on 18.8. - but I need to figure out if that works.

@Purzel @Martin K Thank you guys for sorting that out, the issue with that is, we will have a 7.5T Production van nobody is allowed to drive to storage, so that does not really work.

... dx-cars - never heard of them, very interesting. i call there tomorrow to find out deals. what is our total budget (840+prod budget)?

Yeah round about 840 Incl MwSt , probs a bit less, also its actually 700 + MwSt, so be aware if they deal as a kleinunternehmen with MwSt Exemption and give an invoice without MwSt the budget is 700

my question was about the rest of prod transport budget

hey,

so dx cars has some nice offers!
2 vans (without lift=we need the ramp) with 1,4t cargo for 12 days for 1120,- euro (insurance and 1000km per car included, 500,- kaution per car). this van is a meter shorter than the rest though.

I put all data on rentals in the transport tab in muddis sheet (top to the right)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13gUTFCeY0aauoxX9WtC4Z1MCZkVr5hMKVF4THvRVcx8/edit#gid=19891754

okay, quick response before i have to leave:

• dx-cars needs licences from all drivers, this would be a requirement for the kieze (i have to check if they accept a copy/pdf).

• the list sems fine to me, not sure about the fridges, maybe we have to leave the calculation of volume/weight to the kieze (they can organize/share a ride)

• cris and mel can drive (fri/sat), i can drive sun-rest, thats what I know for now, details have to be checked with the actual transports

• (private) DM stuff: sure, not for this thread, but for my peace of mind (i am new to the camp and can't estimate what other things might sum up)

• ramp: cool, let's decide soon. sure budget is not fixed, but i thougt now if we even take weight of the kieze 1250,- for everthing (cars+ramp) seems fine to me

thanks & cheers & see you soon!

@Martin K which model do we rent from DX-cars? i would like to check their capacity

Hey @Martin K , cool! only a few rather technical things to avoid confusion:

• Can you change DM Food for Production food & drinks? that food is for volunteers of general event production. Not essentially for Deine Mudda.

• Instead of "Korg" use "Production" (the Korg means literally: the "Kaos Organization team")

I'd like us to be as accurate as possible on the wording because Deine Mudda and production are two different things, they collaborate, but still need to be addressed accuratly so we dont confuse the Kieze, and participants dont think Deine Mudda is populating the whole camp with production costs/vehicle or using the vehicle more than other camps for camp purposes.

As I understand DM will only use the van to buy the food for the camp and their drinks on Tuesday and probably also drop in some materials on Friday, but that is it.

The rest is Production food and drinks; let's reflect that in the sheet. I think @Melinda Gonzalez is organizing this given she is the Kitchen Lead, I am unsure how will she handle the order to accurately place this in the schedule.

For the rest, I think this is having a lot more shape and we are to close the deal, no?

On Monday we have the final budget available from production to Transport and we only need to decide if we need to rent/ buy the ramp or if the power company will lend it to us🙌 which would be awesome!

hey, i chose category 4 in favor of the wider and higher one over the longer one. https://www.dx-cars.com/transporter/

haha, alright, thanks for clearing up this korg thing, it is NOT Kiezburn organization, as I thought (who wants to organize Kaos anyway? thats not a proper kaos, is it?)

sweet, final weight is btw more like 2ton instead of 1.6,

As long as the groceries from Berlin don't need fridge it's fine. Some things can be bought in berlin and transported with al rest of production stuff. I guess cans and stuff like that.

However:

watch out the weight. We have space in the van for sure but not much weight bandwidth. Would be nice to calculate the number of cans we need so to easily measure the extra weight we are loading in.

I'm up to do groceries on sat morning in greifswalder. I need another volunteer driver because Martin is not onsite. Maybe @Cris Could help me.

I'm sure this will suffice to buy food for build (Saturday,Sunday,Monday, tuesday). If not we can always make a second round of shopping maybe.

Important @Franzi consider this in the volunteer sheet of deine mudda please. It looks like 2 builders (me and cris) are gonna be absent to the building shifts of the camp to do the general volunteer kitchen shopping BUT also, the parking team might have a lighter day of work on the Saturday and could maybe contribute to deine mudda build on that one day (?) Only a suggestion up to discuss in Deine Mudda (privately). To bring conclusions here.

On Tuesday, Deine mudda can borrow the van2 to do groceries again (for the camp this time) @Melinda Gonzalez then you can go with kitchen team, no?

Does this all Makes sense to you?

Great @Sven Dudink to confirm if the ramp will be lent to us from the power provider or how do you wanna do (?)

Hey @Martin K I have updated the schedule here in the link below because I can't make comments or edit your own comments 👆 after the meeting and conversations with melinda we figure the following: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1znLQhPg7x5YKXPVyNRY13PhX71Vgh6wG4TIlmLEpeRo/edit#gid=0

take a look and tell me if it makes sense to you now? I tagged some people to call their attention and confirm details

Heya thanks for writing in!!

❤️Mudda van is Mudda van UNLESS mudda is interested in coordinating the van with production...if so, take into count that production might be moving gear from Berlin to freiland and vice-versa and will need to use the van during build. Logistics coordination Kiez-production here...

I opened this thread to move forward by throwing some clarity on what production needs in regards to transport. Details will need to be negotiated and coordinated by the realizer of transport (You? Max? + @Natacha Kromatik (Build manager Lead) and with the people tagged in this thread... and the camp, in this case, Deine Mudda.

I think best is to reach out to these fellas ( max, sven - muttis)

Please do share any updates here in this thread! it will help Korg a lot follow up on this responsibility and see how it goes. Thank you, we really need some more hands coordinating the logistics. 🤗

Excellent!!!!

One question. The van has three seats available or two? Can we triple check this information please??? Thanks 🙏

oh i see...good thinking.

• I think we can compromise and say, that whoever needs to transport something could be picked up on Sunday when Melinda and you would be driving back to Freiland.

• Then we could give one more trip back to Berlin on Sunday evening to return to freiland on Monday.

And that would be all.

Is that too much?

i didnt reach dxcars today. lets wait for monday.

For offering delivery service on sunday: i am not too sure if there will be space, but could be.

we could offer the kieze the van if they pay the xx cent/km (and follow the ruels ladida) and they can spare the rental money.

That seems like a handy thing to have lying around to be honest, for a multitude of tasks. Get it.

Hey, so we already decided not to openly offer this but to help out who is struggling. Im happy you reached out.

Production is supposed to drive one of the vans back to Berlin on Sunday eve ( we need a driver for that; maybe an underworld member that is already onsite could drive to Berlin with the empty van???).

Then on Monday morning there will be a loading from House of plenty. Maybe the 2 fridges from underworld could be loaded.

Then the driver should be returning to the site on the Monday afternoon.

@Caro T ( house of plenty lead) any idea the volume of materials you need to transport from Berlin to the site? Thanks!!!

@Annette Not sure if this works for you guys... transport is still in progress planning and things might change...

I'm not sure you meant me as house of plenty lead - or maybe i missed an email ?

@Caro T maybe it's for you

Changed my @ to @Caroline to avoid any furthrmer confusion

Flick me a pn here or on telegram https://t.me/Purzel23

Thank you @Martin K so good to hear you ve made a reservation! Whoop Whoop!!! you are awesome!!❤️🙌💪

I could think of requesting the Kieze involved that need some space in the van, to pay some of the extra expense of petrol for driving back and forth Berlin - Freiland. But I am unable to take this decision myself

I appreciate the Kieze involved to participate in this thread, please:

• @Caro T House oF Plenty. The old-free-campers new camp🤗. We still dont know:

A: if they can provide a driver Freiland>Berlin and vice versa

B: what is that they need to transport.

• @Annette Underworld ( only need to put 2 fridges in the van cause they re short of space in their van)

• @Cris Deine mudda who needs the van to transport minor objects and do a run of groceries for the camp on Tuesday. (most of the gear is in storage already) and doesnt really worth rent a full van for it.

• There was a Kinki camp also in the need to transport a party tent + some kitchen supplies. Im not sure who to tag but this person reached out in a thread.

So this is all I can think of, if Kieze are willing to chip in for the petrol or some of the costs, Otherwise, I personally, would consider that KBorg is not in a place to offer help as expected and this should be officially communicated given this offer was made on the Kieze Kick off meeting and it was an initiative from the orga and not an initial request from the Kieze.

Yes, Deine Mudda is nepotizing the Power Transport with a small box full of spoons and 2 lamps, and I always thought that'd be ok as hand luggage, since I'm driving it. The whole DM treasure is in storage. Correct me if I'm wrong, because this thread is really difficult to follow. Our Mutti-Finance Master @Franzi may have a pair of coins under a pillow to chip in with transport, or may not 🙊

Thank you for the summary. As I wrote earlier, I think the best way is to let Kieze organise their own transport. IF KORG wants to help the kieze without getting drown (that was the opinion you asked for), from a general Kieze perspective we would appreciate support from KORG if - for a few special items that are critical to bring, but needed and make the Kieze transport system complicated. But again, we are trying to combine forces with other Kieze, however if there is space and it is easy to organise in exchange for driving & costs, we are up for it. And our offer stands: We have a car trailer that can be used when organized with our transport lead <3.

@Professor Kaos yes there are a whole lot of hidden costs we didn't know about, it seemed like a money saving solution, but i doubt if this is still the case,

about the ramp, i think here is some misunderstanding, as long as the ramps can hold 1 box (200KG) all is fine, ramps are sorted out, sufficient and already at my place, its about the vans, they can only carry 1,4 ton max including passengers, so more close to 1,1 ton of cargo, the power equipment is somewhere between 1,6 and 2 ton so need to be divided between 2 vans

Looking great! Ill check for a driver, maybe we can even drive both ways so our driver can get back to the Site on Sunday. Would 50 EUR be only one way so if we need to take the fridges back to Berlin it is another 50 EUR?

I see... you and I suggest the same option 2 only that I call it option "B" on this comment thread https://talk.kiezburn.org/d/HWajQVi2/build-transport-production-van/107

Hm it seems like we where typing the same thing at the same time, i will just add my previously typed text here:

I see a lot has happened, what I see now is orga ends up helping a lot of kiezes , but by doing so orga goes over its own budget, the goal of going for 2 vans was, save some money, so we don't pay the power company to transport our cables, now the opposite seems to happen

I have 2 suggestions:
I would suggest, either we charge a bigger amount to anyone, orga or kieze for transport,

petrol is 1,40 per liter 1/12,5KM = 11.2ct
van rental is 845 with 2600KM, = +-30ct per km
still, all insurance and potential damage is not calculated in this formula

we pay 41.2 ct per KM + insurance, also we got the risk not so many KM is sold, and this than comes from power and build budget, with this system camps don't need to rent their own van, offering a van to use to share KM based is already a big step forwards form having to rent their own van


Option 2, we use the power budget to pay for arranged transport, as we did in previous years, we get 1 van, we leave things the same as they were last year, and that's it

I won't attend this year due to parenthood, so what I shared were just some tips/learnings.

regarding 6: yes, the peeps who were there previous years know which rental agency we used. Basically Kiez Burn then had to hold driver licenses of the peeps who will drive. In any case, it made us much more flexible, which is really useful since it is really hard to know who will be available to drive when.

Regarding 1: damages are carried by the entity that rents it, so that is kiez burn, not the individual drivers.

have fun & good luck!

@Professor Kaos yes there are a whole lot of hidden costs we didn't know about, it seemed like a money saving solution, but i doubt if this is still the case,

i think we could still revert our choice and ask the power company, they also just hire and external company to do the transport, the last update was that this year transport would cost around 1000 euro

about the ramp, i think here is some misunderstanding, as long as the ramps can hold 1 box (200KG) all is fine, ramps are sorted out, sufficient and already at my place, its about the vans, they can only carry 1,4 ton max including passengers, so more close to 1,1 ton of cargo, the power equipment is somewhere between 1,6 and 2 ton so need to be divided between 2 vans

hi! Looks like @richard Hodkinson (not on talk yet) might be able to drive. But what is the "driving things back" situation? We will nee to bring quite a few things back to Berlin - most really - and also Richard would then also need to drive back as he'd then not bring his own car @Veroca R. Sala

Thanks Sven, I think it is a good idea, however, im not personally down to recruit or coordinate anything related to transport anymore, it has taken already too much volunteering time from me, your suggestions require a car/ trailer rental +/or further coordination with a Kiez, etc and a driver available to drive a cart WITH a trailer.

I can only request to get the power company to transport the gear and get Martin to rent the production van separately. That is all I can come up with. We are 12 days from a build and still, we dont have toilets, so my attention and interest are not to save money on transport but to have toilets on site.

Im walking out of this thread now, I can only suggest making a phone call with the power company ASAP to close the deal.

note: to drive they need to provide their driver's license in advance ( prior to the event to the rental company, to coordinate with Martin, - there is deadline for that)

Drivers cannot spontaneously just hop on the van as far as I understand, for liability reasons.

By the way does deine mudda actually have gear to transport from Berlin? @Martin K

i put up a transport tab in the muddi sheet, do the essential korgs have access there? we can put in production stuff in there as well and see what synergies we have.

looks like there needs to be a korg van going on friday and there is not tooo much muddi stuff, so sharing might not work. i keep you posted.

That is what we are looking for: a Production transport lead

@Martin K

Site Leads box was left in storage near site after Spark, so all good.

not that he needs anymore tasks, but I think @Purzel has such a license

yeah but funny enough we paid 700 euros the transport and still we had to gather all hippies to unload the stuff ourselves.

About getting onsite before the 6th i think it might be possible cause there arent any events right before KB ( as usually) i would ask @Kate here.

there are 3,5t transporters with lift, but only with 1t of cargo. so we will need a 7,5t. A different solution would be going with two small vans at the same time and keeping only one on site. if not all cables are needed on friday/saturday we could also start with a first load and the rest on sunday/monday or something (1. generators + some cables / 2. rest cables & light others)? (no clue if this make any sense, just thinking). considering rent, time and work the 700eu could actually make sense, even with hippie hands. but the boxes have wheels as far as I understood, so I don't see the need to lift them (no ramp last time?)

That is also a very nice out of the box option...

• Power lead @Sven Dudink is this doable? 👆 in terms of not having all the equipment in one day.

• Not sure if renting two vans will actually benefit us financially...

• not to lift them but a solution to unload would be a ramp but these boxes are freakin heavy

I am very confused as I thought that Muttis and Production would share a vehicle but I see this is not the case. @Natacha Kromatik I signed up for production then I guess. Anyway, I could drive one 3.5t Vehicle to the site for first day of build and do a pick up run in Berlin before. I hope the mutti meeting will get us some clearance.

sharing is not decided yet, I for my part dont have enough info yet. for now the van is not shared because of max load/space and the production van needs to be on site sat. also the amount of muddis stuff is not clear but seemed to be one load itself.

but regrding the 2van-option: once power is unloaded one van could stay on site, the other returns to B and loads/picks up muddis kitchen and stuff to bring on saturday, (the one without lift i guess, so fridges and alikes need to be carried out.) then return this van and keep the other.

and just these clarifications to vero: as i understood it is 1,6t cables plus 2 generators. where does this 1,7t van come from?

so i checked, and if we go for a 10m³ transporter, they usually have a weight of around 1800 KG, which leaves us with 1700KG for transporting?, the 1.6 ton is including generators

I am allowed to drive up to 40to but sadly I won´t be able to arrive before the 8th on site. Otherwise I wouldnt mind taking the truck there and back (I´m staying for strike) if everything is organised for me.

Would the plan be, to leave the truck on site while the event or bringing it back to Berlin?

I have an important work thing on the 07th. so there is a possibility for me that I could do a one day tour back and forth just to drop everything on site. But it needs to be well organised (picking up the truck, picking up the load, having enough hands or a frontloader to unload on site quickly) and I don´t have capacity to do that.

I can imagine that we have more hippies that can drive a 7,5 to, if we reach out.

I wouldnt recomend anything bigger than 7,5to as it becomes to difficult to move on site.

ok check, 1,6t total. i asked at Lex and buchbinder, they had 990kg/1t cargo. There may be different rental options, but I would not trust this should-be minus-calculation. also i thought: vans back to back without gap? to move the boxes from van to van we need to lift it over ca. 20-40cm, does this work safely? or we would need some heavy metal plate. (edit: i'm stupid, thats the lift of course)

I think this particular truck is only meant to get the Power supplies on site, right?

As a second transporter that might be possible, a bit of a waste since it would be great to have 2 transporters, we still meed to drive 1 regular transporter to site for production, but like this its definitly doable

Beware that for a big Trailer you'll need a car that is allowed to tow it, also you're still not allowed to exceed the max weight of 3,5to (trailer + car) on a normal car license (B).

You'll also need to consider that for a trailer of more of 750kg total mass, you'll need a license to tow a trailer (class E)

thanks @Purzel thats valuable, i had no idea, okay so that plan will no go

the money from production is yet no to so clear, Natacha will come with a clear number by next Monday the 12th. Here you can find the general budget, I think the build has a total of 2500eu, we just dont know how much is assigned for production transport yet.

as a reference, in 2019 I think we spent 1300 on the production van

Hey @Veroca R. Sala, hey @Sven Dudink

thanks for your thoughts.

i think the proposal for the kieze can work with the conditions you mentioned. i am afraid things can get out of hand, but if we have strict rules/boundaries (a list to rule them all) it should work.

the second van needs to be usable for DM to get food/drinks on tuesday (probably).

we have 1,4t of load so we should load other stuff with the first power/water load already.

i don't have a calculation for food/drinks yet, but i think planning only one load for DM food/drinks is critical. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND: These vans are a bit smaller (ca. 3,20m long) and i doubt we get it all in one go, should be at least two if not three rides. (drinks take space).

what is the idea with the ramp? if we borrow for one day (and only for the power gear) it should be only 10euros/day.

BUT we need to pick it up again after the festival. So that's already minimum two days plus driving. i would propose/ask to buy the ramp. We are well within budget, it is a future investment, it has a resale value, burners would be more independent from 7,5t-lift-vans in general.

i probably wont be able to join the meeting, but hit me up with questions.

To get this problem and the question of more transports of DM (camp and privates) solved is my main concern atm.

I am still unsure about what and how much DM stuff needs to be taken fri/sat/sun.

Vero, in your proposal: Why does one van return to B on friday? (shopping can be done in Greifswald).

Basically this: we bring all our stuff (production & DM & food/drinks & privates) until sunday, then one van is used by the kieze (except tue for shopping)? Am i correct?

Maybe something like this:

The second van needs to be usable for DM to get food/drinks on tuesday (probably).

Correct!, we use Van#2 which is for Kieze, we would just need to book it on the schedule sheet, no? the volume is up to calculate by Deine Mudda drinks lead and no need to discuss it here.

We have 1,4t of load so we should load other stuff with the first power/water load already.

That could easily be all the welfare stuff

what is the idea with the ramp? if we borrow for one day (and only for the power gear) it should be only 10euros/day.BUT we need to pick it up again after the festival. So that's already minimum two days plus driving. i would propose/ask to buy the ramp. We are well within budget, it is a future investment, it has a resale value, burners would be more independent from 7,5t-lift-vans in general.

This needs input from @Sven Dudink

I am still unsure about what and how much DM stuff needs to be taken fri/sat/sun.

That is not a topic for this thread tho, I think is not much that needs to be picked up from Berlin, It only needs to be "booked" in the schedule sheet. We actually dont plan all the Deine Mudda camp transport here, we just block a time to use the production van. Let's make sure Deine Mudda discusses this privately and we only bring to this discussion the volume and how much the van is needed.

Why does one van return to B on friday? (shopping can be done in Greifswald).

It could indeed. Why not? 🤗

Basically this: we bring all our stuff (production & DM & food/drinks & privates) until sunday, then one van is used by the kieze (except tue for shopping)? Am i correct?

No privates, actually we move power, water and whatever else fits fro DM if there is space left, we can fit in all welfare blankets and pillows etc. ( it shouldn't be much from welfare)

Kieze that will use van#2 will have to provide the drivers and attend a meeting to discuss details and organize with other camps. I can imagine 2 camps per day could move some materials and they will have to share drivers and cooperate with each other to drive back to Berlin to collect stuff.

Need to know how many drivers does the company allow to drive? because we might have a problem there.

https://www.dx-cars.com/media/gallery_slider_1350/transporter_0026_transporter.jpg

it very much looks like it, but I am talking to them tomorrow anyway, thanks for reminding.

finally a car is reserved.

car: Iveco Daily 3,5m
price: 858,- (inkl. 3000km) + 250,- Kaution

insurance: SB750,- (+257,40) = 1115,- plus gas

time: 6.8. 9h - 18.8. 20h
cargo: 350/180/170
weight: 750kg

potential drivers can send their license & ID copied back and front to me knitterprofessor@gmail.com

yes, we would have been able to make better deals, but at least we know now about aaaall the rental companies...

(sorry, no time for a proper update of the theread)

Hey dear people,

let's finish this thing. if power transport is sorted now @Sven Dudink I will move on with booking.

we can have a van sized 326/194/178: i think is this enough space, even considering the new tour schedule. company is skyline, last price announced is 650,- (let's see it going up).

we can have vollkasko insurance with 750,-SB: would that be okay? @Professor Kaos

kieze won't be able to get help though. sorry, maybe we can squeeze something in... @Caro T @Annette @Luu Sierra

see updated tour schedule here

updated this thread:

Production Van

• We are renting ONE VAN which will be used to move stuff from storage to the site + to do the general groceries.

• Size and price of the van: @Martin K to confirm

• company rental: @Martin K to confirm

• Days: 12 (from the 11th to the 18th August)

• Drivers: so far by now these are 5:

  • @Cris (Deine Mudda camp lead)

  • @Jessie ranger lead

  • @Martin K (production van lead)

  • Ricardo ( build volunteer) not on talk

  • Friederike( Build volunteer) to be confirmed as we need the original drivers license in advance and this person is not based in Berlin.

Helping The Kieze:

There was an idea to rent two vans to do help the Kieze transport some of their gear, but as prices went up and further coordination was needed but not so much time left we will not be able to offer rides Berlin-Freiland for the Keize.

Production can only offer some help to move stuff from storage to site to who needs it.

Helping participants transport gear from the train station.

There is an initiative to pick up participants' gear from the train station and let the people walk/run/ride to Freiland while their gear is dropped off at the gate.

@Caroline is leading the "Bellhop Service". More information to be found on this thread ( FAQ and all ❤️) or continue reading...

The "service" is meant to run only on:

• Wednesday at 10 am and 2 pm> from the train station to Freiland

• Sunday also at two specific ties TBC > from Freiland to the train station

  Production will collaborate by offering the van to transport the gear on these 4 rounds.

  The van is meant to be used for a period of 1 HOUR per round. As we dont foresee this causing any significant inconvenience with the rest of the production plan, this would be a go. tagging @Natacha Kromatik build lead & @Jan-Christian Kaspareit FYI,

• @Veroca R. Sala (Volunteer Coordination) has sent an Invitation to all build drivers as this will ease the bureaucracy with the rental ( they request driver license original) . Otherwise, Carline with the help of comms will be recruiting more volunteers prior the event as we cant recruit on the spot a random driver

as the situation is right now, paying the power company for transport seems to be the best option,

but i still feel like there are more options, a trailer is big enough to transport half of the power stuff, in that case we need someone who drives to site on Friday and drives back somewhere on strike, the price of a trailer for 14 days is max 200 euro https://www.mietanhaenger-berlinnord.de/planenanhaenger.html maybe we could support the brave driver with some petrol since towing 1 ton makes your car a lot more thirsty?

as an extra, this might be an interesting alternative for kiezes who now cant use the second transporter

we would still need the transporter to get the other half of the power stuff

Hi all, thank you for your work - as a Kiez we we´re only hoping to fill some anyways available space and chip in some money if possible, but use a whole load (even shared with another Kiez) does not seem to be the right option for us. We don´t want to make things complicated and we will find another solution. So I want to cancel my request, thank you for your support.

@Veroca R. Sala sorry, just got to this, fighting with Kiez Talk. Gonna add @Luu Sierra to this thread, co-lead and mum of House Of Plenty who gonna lead on the van organisation. We haven't found a driver yet, but are sourcing as we speak! (Now going back to finding out how to comment directly on comments...is there a Talk-manual?) xx dad

Hey,

I will try to summarize our problems. @Professor Kaos @Veroca R. Sala (thnx for your help!)

• We have cars, but with insufficient insurance

• We have no clear budget

• We need drivers

• We need to know the load from Kieze to see how/when/if we're able to help them

• We need quite some Spanngurte to load shit safely. U got any? (i have about 3)

Insurance

The 0815-car rental doesnt offer Vollkasko, only Teilkasko with 2500 SB, yes, the worst case scenario is 5k damage.

How was it dealt with in the last years? Has it been Vollkasko all the way? The situation has been the same with multiple drivers and hippies loading stuff in and out and scratching not only their butts. @waldo

Is it possible to add an "external" insurance from another company to have Vollkasko on the cars? Who can give advice? @Owl (Holger)

If we really can't go without Vollkasko, we need to take a different rental company which would be more expensive.

Budget

1. Power: 840,- (would have been transport cost with power company)

2. Build: @Natacha Kromatik doesnt know the budget yet (?) In 2019 we apparantly had 1300,- for transport (for 1 van)

3. DM: How much of kitchen budget can be used for transport? @Franzi @Melinda Gonzalez

4. Kieze: additional gas money from Underworld, House of Plenty, DM (50,- each)

Total: 840 + 1300 + ca.100-200 + ca. 150 = 2390-2490

Costs

144,- ramp

1690,- rental 2 vans for 13 days 6.8. 9h - 18.8. 20h (price went up 130,- because they "forgot" that it's effectively 13 days rental time with pick up early&late)

700,- estimated gas for 6000km (60x8l = 480lx1,4 = 672,-) (8l on 100km?)

252,- for extra km: 200 free km/per day/car = 2600km per car

est. use van 1: ca 4000km, van 2: ca 2000km - so this would be +1400km x 18 cent = 252euro

+ extra insurance?

Total: 144+1690+700+252 = 2786 (ramp is long term use though)

Drivers

We still need drivers for:

• the storage tours (+ ca. 6 helpers) sat-wed (especially for strike)

• Fri6 9h-18h (power to Freiland and back to Berlin)

• Sat7 9h-16h (Food & DM to Freiland) - is @Bee shopping or driving too?

• Sat7 evening (drive back to B) - driver from Underworld @Annette

• Sun8 evening (drive back to B) - driver from House of Plenty

• Mon9 House of Plenty load - How big/heavy is your load? @Caro T

Does anyone have more info on kinky kiez asking for help for tent+kitchen stuff?

Tour schedule here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1znLQhPg7x5YKXPVyNRY13PhX71Vgh6wG4TIlmLEpeRo/edit#gid=1930823044

Some tips/knowledge from the past 3 yrs regarding van rental:

1. There will certainly be damages on the vans. Get good insurance that has very little to no eigenanteil. @Martin KK @Professor Kaos I saw we have a 2500 euro teilkasso, so you should probably count on 500-5000euro extra costs due to damages.

2. We rarely had too few vans, 1 van was more than enough, usually the problem was, we had too few people.

3. Super practical was smaller cars that drive people with a van to help load/unload at storage.

4. Speeding tickets can legally not be paid by kiezburn.

5. Be very limited on who can drive the van, do not lend keys to ppl who might drive a bit drunk

6. It is possible to rent vans in the name of kiez burn so anyone can drive it. This is what we done in previous years. You never really know who will need to drive a van...

Dear people,

i have booked/reserved two vans for us. From very friendly people at 0815 on Köpenicker Str./Kreuzberg. One of them is from Greifswald, knows Freiland and made us a special deal.

Size Cargo: L360/H190/W170

Weight Cargo: 1,4t

free km per van: 200km per day / 18cent per km

insurance: teilkasko SB 2500,- (but if we destroy a mirror we just pay that)

Money:

• 1560,- rent

• extra km: 288 euro (est. use van 1: ca 4000km, van 2: 2000km) - this would be +1600km x 18 cent = 288euro

• ca. 6000km gas: ca. 8l/100km = ca. 480l x 1,4eur = ca. 700 Euro

• Total: ca. 2500 euro

Important: all drivers licenses must be presented in the original (on day of rental or after)

NOW: I need 1560,- in CASH to rent (there is no deposit, we just pay upfront) - i asked Alex, cash is unreachable while he's on vacation, so we need a rich and friendly burner to help us out with cash... Anyone?

hello everyone!

the best offer we have atm is two vans for 1560,- from 0815 in kreuzberg. The guy is from Greifswald, knows Freiland and is offering a special deal for us.

i am currently still waiting on two other offers, then we should settle for a deal.

a different option would be to rent from two different rentals (we might save a bit money, but it would be more complicated).

you find my (incomplete) notes here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1znLQhPg7x5YKXPVyNRY13PhX71Vgh6wG4TIlmLEpeRo/edit#gid=87758476

i removed the wrong comment... so here we go again:

Please help on this decision, people of orga, build and finances: Do we want to buy a ramp?

It is to transport power (cable boxes) independently.

@Professor Kaos @Purzel @Max @Max Power @Franzi @Veroca R. Sala @Diarmaid @Cris @CJ Yetman @Bee @Hanna-Maija (Animal) @Myriam TheWanderer @Sven Dudink

cost for rent: 50,- for the whole event

cost to buy: 150,-

https://www.kaufland.de/product/312802648/

pro:

• usable for the next years

• usable for the community through the year

• usable also for fridges, sound systems & anything with wheels

• resale value

contra:

• not usable if we have a different power solution

• more expensive

Thanks for your opinion!

I think we should offer the support to house of plenty who are a crew of free campers pulling a community together. Most other camps are returning

@Caro T @Veroca R. Sala

Sheets in use

Transport schedule sheet (Spread that Shit)

Production Transport schedule

ah and important: if we use the van for lots of back-and-forth for the kiez rides we will exceed the 1000 free km per van, i would have to check back with dx on what the cost would be... (normally 37c/km) or if we could book a bigger km deposit.

hey everyone,

sorry, I was out for some days due to my event.

thanks for the update.

@Veroca R. Sala and @Erin Jeavons-Fellows: i would be in with the kieze meeting. let's talk beforehand about your reasonable suggestions to restrict hippiedom which i am a little afraid of: "a van, ten camps and a huge mud fight".

I put up a sheet for the Kieze to fill in their demands (please don't share before we have settled on the rules) - there is a tab for rules proposals @Annette - shall we have a conference about this after we made up our minds, then meet on wednesday?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BGIV9lKxXcBuTULUHipIqlKUWYmMV15ljNsLt-MH_NE/edit#gid=171842504

i will set up a deadline (19.7.?) for all non-kieze-related transports (all DM+prod essentials) to find out how much room for hippie help we have. The earliest would be monday 9.8. I think.

@Sven Dudink: 1,4t of total load includes persons. so yes, if the power transport is about 2t and we have three people plus luggage, we wont be able to take much else on the first ride. This means changes for shopping too.

Are there more news on water? current info is a bag of 40kg with connectors, is there more coming?

i will adjust the transport schedule. You can find my current stand on planning in muddis shit-transport tab down in the tour schedule.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13gUTFCeY0aauoxX9WtC4Z1MCZkVr5hMKVF4THvRVcx8/edit#gid=19891754

I need to settle on the needed transports first before reaching out for drivers fr/sat, it seems like there is still adjustment on what Muddi needs.

And still the ramp: we are waiting on budget info (monday?) to decide if it makes sense to buy or rent. Considering th effort to get/bring the ramp and the min. 30,- for rent&gas I still think it would make sense, if we use this kind of power supply the next years and now even Kieze want to bring their fridges. But I don't want to force this, just want to be efficient.

- Otherwise: yes, let's close the deal, make reservations with dx-cars and the ramp.

Thanks & Cheers

Martin

@Martin K would you say the 1.4T is including passengers? in that case not much remains,
if we are with 3 persons per van, and both vans have a load of 1T, every person including their luggage weights 100KG, makes 300KG roundabout, which leaves 100KG per van, unless passengers don't count?

@Melinda Gonzalez I have updated the "proposal" sorry I missed updating that. How do you see it now?

@Martin K the changes are made on the thread, for your information and after the conversations we had yesterday at the meeting and with the kitchen lead.

@Martin K which sheet will be the collaborative sheet plan we could use for the kieze (?)

Thinking of having a meeting next week with the kieze facilitator @Erin Jeavons-Fellows to align a bit on how will we approach the Kieze. How will we offer the s.o.s without ending up involved in huge chaos.

My idea is to discuss this before going out to offer the van.

Whoever else that wants to participate and help coordinate this shit show, join in! Tag me in the comments.

Meeting (ideally) will be Wednesday 14th.

@Annette I would appreciate your opinion alone. How to help the kieze without getting drown 😆

Thanks all

Re: Food shopping- It seems the current proposal is that the food shopping happens around Freiland. Ok, I can't be there, but I guess it's ok if I order the food online for pickup and then- because many things will be probably be missing- and someone (maybe @Bee and Fabi?) will need to check what's NOT there and do a 2nd shopping run with a car. Does this sound feasible @Otto @Veroca R. Sala ?

what production will and will not offer to transport, let's make this clear for the kieze, I suggest these basics, feel free to suggest changes!!!

The goal is to help the Kieze to move stuff to have a decent set up, not to provide the transport. There is a tiny bit of a difference there! Whereas if the goal was to provide them transport we will no be putting up these rules.

The van is not so big and many kieze might need a hand so lets be good for each other and respect the guidelines so all can use the help

@Martin K @Sven Dudink from what i understand we are able to rent the two vans and still be within the budget, plus renting the ramp to ease the unloading. I say we can close deal, no?🎉

Proposal:

In addition I want to request when possible, to help the Kieze.

How?

It was an interest from Kiez burn to help Kieze as much as possible given the short notice and the great number of new Kieze that are doing a lot of effort to populate the streets of Freiland and bring their sparks to the event.

Many of them need to transport materials from Berlin. My proposal is the following:

• Friday afternoon > load the 2 vans with the power equipment to Berlin. ( two production drivers )

• Friday evening > van #1 remains in Freiland, Van#2 goes back to Berlin ( two production drivers)

• Saturday Morning > van#2 loads kitchen supplies and drives to Freiland. (production driver)

• Saturday afternoon > van #1 and #2 drive up and down from Storage to Freliand to move all production gear to the site. ( 1 production driver + 1 volunteer driver assigned already)

• Saturday evening > van#1 remains on-site van#2 drives back to Berlin (driver provided by the kieze)

• Sunday morning > van#2 drives back to Freiland with Kieze stuff and so on and so forth as much as they need during build. They need to have an organized schedule and we need to know who is driving, and when.

  Limitations of the proposal:

• The van is meant to be used to transport essential material for the Kieze to work smoothly like kitchen materials, fridge, lights etc,

• deco stuff

• No mattresses ( they take a lot of space)

If we give okay to this I can make sure the interested Kieze are in touch with you and will enable an organization sheet to make sure the volume of materials to transport fit in the van + a drivers sheet.

>>>transport schedule sheet proposal <<<

i collected some links for cheap kleinanzeigen offers maybe something interesting:

400 per week with enough free KM,

Maybe we can make a deal when renting 2 for 12 days?

https://www.dx-cars.com/transporter/

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/xxxl-transporter-mieten-ohne-kaution-ohne-kreditkarte/1399886637-276-3401#

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/transporter-mieten-fuer-49-99-pro-tag-mercedes-und-vw-/1804595573-238-3500

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/sprinter-crafter-kautionsfrei-in-berlin-ab-49-mieten/1803124800-238-3520

cheap solution if someone has strong car

can transport all power equipment at once if car is strong enough, probably negotiable, or cheaper providers

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/vermieten-plananhaenger-ideal-fuer-umzuege-und-sonstiges/1798537113-238-7900

Summary/Update:

I want to try to summarize the situation.

short cut to my long thoughts: (see option 3)

• bring Power+Prod with 7,5t (Purzel/Martin) in one go (fr 6./wed18.)

• divide&conquer: divide cold/fresh (sat) and noncold food+drinks (fr)

• rent Robbe as production van to bring food+rest on friday eve, then use sat morning

• rent Sixt van in Neubrandenburg for fresh/cold stuff+rest OR use private car(s) on saturday

General:

• still: for power (1,6t) we need a lift on the van or a ramp

• still: 840,- for power transport too expensive: should be managed by us

• 7,5t as production van not possible bc everyone needs to drive it on site

• expensive: best would be to have two vans on site during the event (build & shopping)

• 3,5t van with lift is 179,- per day (incl. 800km, insurance, +drivers) from LEX

• 3,5t van without lift is 131,- (cargo) / 149,- (truck) per day from ROBBEN

• 3,5t van with lift is 1100,- for 12 day (6.-18.8.)

• Budget: 840eur from power budget + production budget (how much)

• IF we had a driver 7,5t for friday 6.8. we could bring power, water & rest of production in one tour and return the van to B the same day, and rent a small van to buy/collect food, drinks and other muddi stuff on friday and bring it early saturday morning (problem is to cool food before power is up, BUT the van needs to be on site early morning for storage tours)

Basic Problems:

• conflict of van buys food and cant cool it before power is up – but van needs to be on site

• how to get power/water/production?

• how to get muddis stuff?

• how to have a van on site saturday morning?

• how to have drinks & food fresh & cool on saturday?

• are there Spanngurte? Is there a Sackkarre? Or do we want to rent this too?

Vans:

Robben: (was there a reason last time to not take a Robbe?)

7,5t = 150,-/day with lift

3,5t = 131,- (sprinter) or 149,- (cargo) per day without lift

Lex: 3,5t = 179,-/day with lift (cargo) / ca. 150,-/day without lift (sprinter)

Buchbinder: 3,5t = 219,-/day with lift / 12 days: 723eur + insurance

Option 1: (expensive)

• rent 2 vans with lift from Lex (179,- each/day) for power + water and production stuff on friday

• return one van to B on friday, come back on saturday with Muddis drinks and food

• return one van to B (driver needs to come back)

• keep prod.van on site for 12 days (fr 6.8.-wed 18.8.)

• for strike: Martin returns to B on monday and returns on wednesday with 7,5t to pick up Power, Waste, muddis bottles + rest all at once (needs to check deadine of power return)

• cost:

  van1 for 2 days = ca. 300-360eur

  van2 for 12 days = 1100eur

  7,5t for 1 day = ca. 150eur

Option 2: (ramp solution)

• buy a ramp OR borrow a ramp for 1 day

• rent two regular vans without lift

• load power with ramps

• bring power + water + production + muddis stuff with two vans

• get food & drinks on saturday, then return van to Berlin (driver needs ride)

We can buy a metal ramp (680 kg) for 140,- (could be kept and also be used for bass, amps, fridges, everything with wheels). Something like this:

https://www.kaufland.de/product/312802648/

https://www.kaufland.de/product/199690941/

OR rent a ramp for 10eu/day (from Gerken)

Option 3: (cheap & possible)

• Fri, 6.8. 10h Robben: power + water + prod with one load 1,9t / 7,5t with @Purzel back & forth B-KB-B (strike: back with Martin on 18.8.)

• Fri, 6.8. 10h Robben: 3,5t Production van is rented for buying drinks and non-cold food + loading muddi stuff + small production rest, arrive in the evening at KB.

• Sat 7.8. 10h unload stuff and use Robbe as production van

• Sat 7.8. 10h drive with car (available?) to Sixt Neubrandenburg (driver+helper) rent van for a day, use Sixt van to buy food & drinks & rest, by then power & fridge is up, return van saturday evening, come back with car

OR: use two cars for rest shopping => Demmin

• Mon/Tue: use Robbe and/or Cars to buy more food/drinks, same on strike monday

Updated info about power gear transport

Transporting, loading and unloading the power gear in a save way would require a van with lift, we loaded and unloaded last year without, this is not save and will put weights way over 35 kilo on people, the generator weights 135 kilo, the boxes i dont know, but its total 1600 kg and maybe around 6-8 boxes,, so do the math, ideally we got someone with LKW 7.5 License but it might be tough to find someone available on friday 06.08.2021

okay cool, I will check if sharing a van will make sense once I have a clue about the extent of the muddi transport. I was just supposing, that DM would need at least one big transport (fridges, kitchen, food, drinks, material), the rest being done with cars. so from sunday evening on the van coul be free for the site - i check back with the others and we'll talk soon. is there a kborg transport lead? (still figuring out responsibilities and talk and shizzle, give me a moment...)

hey,

is the production van the Muddi van? If so I would claim responsibility.

i am not in Berlin 31.7.-7.8., if i need to rent personally this might be a problem. i can pick up the van sunday morning, 8.8. and drive to freiland - and back after strike.