What do we do about Freiland's price increase?
Chiara
Public
Seen by 55
This advice process is about Freiland’s decision to add a 20 € camping fee per person in 2023 and 2024. The main decisions we need to take are (I). Whether we still want Kiezburn to happen in 2023, and (II). If so, where do we get the additional money from.
Proposer
@Chiara
Proposer’s role:
I am writing this Advice Process on behalf of all the participants of the Kickoff Weekend 2023. This group of people includes most of the realizers for Kiezburn 2023, a lot of realizers from previous years, and some Boardies.
Information gathered before posting
This proposal was discussed at the Kickoff Weekend, on 28.01.2023.
People/roles most affected by this proposal
@Everyone
@Boardies
@Finance
@Tickets
People/roles with the most knowledge and experience relevant to this proposal:
Participants of the Kickoff Weekend
Last year’s Finance lead @Kathleen
The proposal
Background
Freiland wants to add a 20 € camping fee per person in 2023 and 2024. This is because they want to expand the site by buying new land, and because they want to add fixed infrastructure for water (2023) and power (2024). Note that the water pipes we currently have are owned and not rented by KB, so this addition would not save us any money in 2023. For reference, in the past years Freiland’s price has been 10% of the ticket revenue, so about 8.000-10.000 €. This is a 20.000 € increase. This means that in 2023 and 2024 Freiland’s price would be 30.000, three times as much as it was in the past.
The proposal
At the Kickoff Weekend, there unanimously agreed that we still want Kiezburn to happen in Freiland 2023, and we will start scouting for new locations to host Kiezburn 2024. The alternative would be that Kiezburn does not happen at all this year.
If we go ahead with Kiezburn 2023, we need to decide where we can get this extra money from. The three options are:
We increase ticket price by 20 euros (from 95 to 115)
We take the money from the Kiezburn budget (e.g. dreams, infrastructure, KB-related events).
A mix of both
How would the proposal be implemented
If we decide to take the budget from Tickets, then the Ticketing team should decide on the details and implement them at the next ticket sale. For example, does the low-income ticket price stay the same or does it also increase?
If we decide to take the money from the Kiezburn budget, then the Finance team should decide on where it makes more sense to reduce the budget.
Who would implement this proposal
Tickets
Finance
When would this proposal be implemented
Before the Ticket sales for Kiezburn 2023.
What would be the cost (time, money, effort, etc.) of this proposal
Money: 20.000 €
Time/effort: deciding which areas of the budget we can take money from
What are the advantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)
We have an event in 2023.
What are the disadvantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)
The financial burden falls either on the participants, or on Kiezburn budget (thus restricting the amount of money that we can put into creativity, infrastructure and KB-related events).
Decision
A decision on whether we want to have an event at all with these conditions should happen in the next two weeks, so we can go ahead with booking a date with Freiland.
A decision on where we get the money from should be taken before the ticket sale.
Kris Thu 9 Feb 2023 7:40PM
AFAIK only VAT applies here and that's deductible.
We pay more than 20 eur per camper to Freiland, so that setup doesn't really make sense. This kind of pricing is known as drip pricing, and is more and more prevalent (and annoying). This is a cost we decide we're willing to pay as a community.
Saskia Fri 10 Feb 2023 7:04AM
That is not correct. We also pay GEMA and GEMA is a hefty price tag that depends on revenue (is that the right word? The money we make with ticket and other sales b4 taxes. We only have ticket sales tho as we dont sell food or drinks). The GEMA price tag is so hefty, that the 30% GEMA discount we get over Club Commission is several times the membership-fee for club comission.
So. If we increase our prices by 20 Euro per ticket and it is seen as our ticket revenue that's more financial impact than just VAT.
(Edit: If you wonder why GEMA has no impact for Burn Night: GEMA is usually included in club rental fees as the clubs pay a straifght fee to GEMA).
Kris Fri 10 Feb 2023 3:25PM
Oh, GEMA isn't a tax, it's legalized piracy. Don't think making a surcharge would let us get away with not paying them, though.
Saskia Fri 10 Feb 2023 4:03PM
Maybe it would be worthwhile reaching out to club comission about that. I have heard that stuff that is sometimes charged with tickets (such as trash-desposit fees in some bigger festivals or charging extra for "camping passes") are listed seperatedly because of that.
I can do that quickly, doesn't cost us a thing to ask for that info. :)
Edit: and of course paying GEMA is a huge pain in the ass, there is no question about that.
Kris Sun 12 Feb 2023 2:35AM
Cool, I'll defer to our finance people on that, I know nothing about German niceties.
B r i Sun 19 Feb 2023 1:55PM
out come here is to increase the price, right?
nothing else is affected
Erin Jeavons-Fellows Mon 20 Feb 2023 12:13PM
KB is by far the cheapest burn in Europe. 115 euros for a 5-day event is already very cheap. we have plenty of room to raise it.
Saskia · Thu 9 Feb 2023 9:46AM
Hello.
I am agreeing with each and everyone here. Kiez Burn should happen. Ticket prices need to be increased. If we can we should not take it from the arts. We can and should use Burn Night and other fundraising efforts. Organizing a storage solution with the future in mind is gonna save us a lot of headaches.
I have a little bit of a different question, maybe for finance: IF we increase the ticket prices, tax wise this would mean that we 'make the money' first, wouldn't it? Is there a way to legally just act as the "collector" with never ever really bein the "owner" of the money so it doesn't really go through our finance system?
And, if not: Is there a way to make it clear what caused the massive price to the participant who buys the ticket? Adding it extra like one would maybe add "processing fee" when buying a concert ticket. I imagine seeing something like: "
"Kiez Burn Ticket Price (normal) 95 Euro
Freiland charge per Person 20 Euro
Total: 115 Euro"