Thu 2 Feb 2023 1:12PM

What do we do about Freiland's price increase?

C Chiara Public Seen by 54

This advice process is about Freiland’s decision to add a 20 € camping fee per person in 2023 and 2024. The main decisions we need to take are (I). Whether we still want Kiezburn to happen in 2023, and (II). If so, where do we get the additional money from. 



Proposer’s role:

I am writing this Advice Process on behalf of all the participants of the Kickoff Weekend 2023. This group of people includes most of the realizers for Kiezburn 2023, a lot of realizers from previous years, and some Boardies.

Information gathered before posting

This proposal was discussed at the Kickoff Weekend, on 28.01.2023.

People/roles most affected by this proposal





People/roles with the most knowledge and experience relevant to this proposal:

Participants of the Kickoff Weekend

Last year’s Finance lead @Kathleen

The proposal


Freiland wants to add a 20 € camping fee per person in 2023 and 2024. This is because they want to expand the site by buying new land, and because they want to add fixed infrastructure for water (2023) and power (2024). Note that the water pipes we currently have are owned and not rented by KB, so this addition would not save us any money in 2023. For reference, in the past years Freiland’s price has been 10% of the ticket revenue, so about 8.000-10.000 €. This is a 20.000 € increase. This means that in 2023 and 2024 Freiland’s price would be 30.000, three times as much as it was in the past. 

The proposal

At the Kickoff Weekend, there unanimously agreed that we still want Kiezburn to happen in Freiland 2023, and we will start scouting for new locations to host Kiezburn 2024. The alternative would be that Kiezburn does not happen at all this year. 

If we go ahead with Kiezburn 2023, we need to decide where we can get this extra money from. The three options are:

  • We increase ticket price by 20 euros (from 95 to 115)

  • We take the money from the Kiezburn budget (e.g. dreams, infrastructure, KB-related events).

  • A mix of both

How would the proposal be implemented

If we decide to take the budget from Tickets, then the Ticketing team should decide on the details and implement them at the next ticket sale. For example, does the low-income ticket price stay the same or does it also increase?

If we decide to take the money from the Kiezburn budget, then the Finance team should decide on where it makes more sense to reduce the budget.

Who would implement this proposal



When would this proposal be implemented

Before the Ticket sales for Kiezburn 2023.

What would be the cost (time, money, effort, etc.) of this proposal

Money: 20.000 € 

Time/effort: deciding which areas of the budget we can take money from

What are the advantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)

We have an event in 2023.

What are the disadvantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)

The financial burden falls either on the participants, or on Kiezburn budget (thus restricting the amount of money that we can put into creativity, infrastructure and KB-related events).


A decision on whether we want to have an event at all with these conditions should happen in the next two weeks, so we can go ahead with booking a date with Freiland.

A decision on where we get the money from should be taken before the ticket sale.


Jessie Thu 2 Feb 2023 2:05PM

I'm totally fine increasing the price of the ticket. But wasn't it 80€ last year so it would be 100€?


Chiara Thu 2 Feb 2023 2:18PM


Kaliope Thu 2 Feb 2023 2:14PM

I) Yes to Kiez Burn 2023 🔥 II) Art is essential and makes a burn what it is 🎨 Taking away money from the dreams budget is a redistribution that comes at the expense of a few artists instead of the whole community. Besides, I don't see how we could reduce other infrastructure costs... So why not combine these two options?

  • raise the regular ticket price, have an even more expensive "supporter" ticket with baseless and pointless (but consensual) VIP all area access, enable additional donations, keep the low income price the same

  • partially fund the additional costs with the revenue of our burn nights in 2023


Kris Thu 2 Feb 2023 2:52PM

Are we coming from a position where it's possible to negotiate? i.e. do we have viable alternatives that are cheaper or better?


Purzel Thu 2 Feb 2023 3:15PM

Sadly not at all, the increase is non negotiable and we told them that we will move, they are sad about but still...

We are starting to look for other places but it's highly unlikely that we find one this year.


Kris Thu 2 Feb 2023 7:17PM

Then it doesn’t sound like we have much choice..

It’s difficult to threaten to leave when we have nowhere to go.


B r i Thu 2 Feb 2023 7:39PM

Changing locations might also cost some money, I feeling that this should be part of the convo as well.


Jaina Hirai Fri 3 Feb 2023 2:28PM

Thanks Chiara for this clear Advice Process! I ABSOLUTELY think that we should have Kiez Burn 2023, and Freiland is the only location that makes sense for this year. I am happy with the solution of raising the tickets by 20 Euros, and agree with @Kaliope that it spreads the fee increase amongst the community, rather than reducing the art funding. If possible, would be great to keep the low income ticket prices the same, but I defer to the Ticket Team as I don't know what's preferable: more low income tickets at a higher price or fewer at the same price.


Alex Kaos Sat 4 Feb 2023 3:44PM

Agreed, this is an unfortunate position to be put in, but the choices are limited.

My advice would be:

  • Maintain the low-income ratio of 50% regular ticket cost. It's the easiest way to stay as "fair" as possible, without having to rediscuss the specific price every year.

  • Raise the regular ticket price by 20€

  • Create multiple 'VIP' donation -ticket options (120€, 140€, 200€) for additional arts funding.

  • Add a similar option to the burn-night tickets as additional funding.

  • Dedicated any leftover dreams/art/KB funds towards the move costs of next year, as a plan to address receiving a big 'fuck you' 200% non-negotiable cost hike from our partners of 4 years...... That does not match inflation.....

So the same as what most people here are saying. X x


Kris Sat 4 Feb 2023 8:04PM

I think we can get a fairly good conception of how willing people are to get VIP tickets, so we'll match the low income ones to that. Totally agree that the low income rebate should be substantial, but that limits how many we can have.


Johannes Klöppner Mon 6 Feb 2023 9:52AM

Also was there any plans to increase number of tickets this year? As this could also give us some playroom, like the money we could get from 10% more tickets used to fund then some of the low income tickets or at least have smaller increase in ticket price for everyone?


Chiara Mon 6 Feb 2023 10:33AM

We need to pay 20 extra per person (it’s a camping fee), so selling more tickets would not help


Johannes Klöppner Mon 6 Feb 2023 12:11PM

Yes but the basic rent should stay the same? Like if we have hundred people more, then the money we could have gotten from them for art could go in subsidizing the tickets instead


Chiara Mon 6 Feb 2023 12:20PM

The basic rent is a portion of the ticket sale (10% I think) so it would also increase with more participants. I might be wrong but I’m not sure we can save a significant amount of money this way.


Caro T Mon 6 Feb 2023 11:57AM

It's a very unfortunate timing of raising the Freiland funds this drastically given the results from the Vision Weekend aka our decision to move site. Whilst I personally want a last year at Freiland and also believe it'll make emptying storage much easier if all the camps are back. What I mean with that is, as this ought to be our last year at Freiland, that we probably should find a storage unit close to Berlin and ask (plus financially support camps) to transport their entire useful storage to the new location.

Given that the move will be expensive and the storage unit will also cost things, my question is how much money we ought to save and dedicate to that move? Is it worth having a smaller Kiez Burn this year? Like a 600 people event for instance, to save money and resources?

Skipping a year is also an option. not a nice one. but an option.


B r i Mon 6 Feb 2023 3:18PM

I was thinking it be even more people to help make a fund for transport from one storage to the other plus whatever extra cost that will come up (as it alway does).

I guess I don't understand the system, but, less burners = more money left over?

Things like power cost more per meter of cable than usage, no?


Alex Kaos Mon 6 Feb 2023 3:25PM

FYI - The economics of scale mean that the more people come, the more money there is left over. Less people squeezes our budget tighter.

More people make it possible to give bigger projects (like moving). Plus it provides the possibility of more Human-Power.


Henrik 🤖 Mon 6 Feb 2023 12:14PM

I don't want Kiez Burn to be skipped and would happily pay the camping fee plus a bit extra to make it hapen 💛💸💛


Bart Mon 6 Feb 2023 7:28PM

+1 for increasing ticket prices. While the cost increase from Freiland is huge, 20€ more on the ticket is not that much in the grand scheme of things.

I have the impression that KB is rather affordable compared to other burns and am certainly willing to pay for a VIP ticket. I would be very sad to not have KB23.


Cris Tue 7 Feb 2023 12:05PM

My vote goes for these already-said options:

  • Absolutely in favor of the mix of both option: increase the ticket by sth less than the hard 20 €, keep low income as 50% of the regular price. Relocate dreams and other budget to subsidize the tickets.

  • Promote the VIP tickets. Explain why one should choose that ticket and what is the money for.

  • "Fundraiser" through Burn Night revenue.

In the Art Budget vs. Inclusive Tickets, I personally strongly stay on the keep-them-low side of life. I've never experienced more expensive Playa Art to be better in any way. Yes, it definitely allows cool things to happen, but we're also not discussing a concept, just a one-time situation. Whereas when we increase the ticket, we are just making our event more selective, making it for low-income burners to even attend. Fuck art! (on 2023)

Other not so soft opinions, probably underevaluated:

  • Charge Freiland the one year usage of Deine Mudda Feuerschale, that they stole from Storage. It's a big Schale, so I'd say 25€/day. Plus the not-even-asking-for-it fee: 200€

  • We demoop before the event and leave the moop at Freiland. Not that they charge us for taking anything.

  • Storage is the new Effigy! Burn, Strike and Storage all-in solution!

(and yes, very disappointed at Freiland for go so f*cking Wallstreet on us)


Saskia Thu 9 Feb 2023 9:46AM


I am agreeing with each and everyone here. Kiez Burn should happen. Ticket prices need to be increased. If we can we should not take it from the arts. We can and should use Burn Night and other fundraising efforts. Organizing a storage solution with the future in mind is gonna save us a lot of headaches.

I have a little bit of a different question, maybe for finance: IF we increase the ticket prices, tax wise this would mean that we 'make the money' first, wouldn't it? Is there a way to legally just act as the "collector" with never ever really bein the "owner" of the money so it doesn't really go through our finance system?

And, if not: Is there a way to make it clear what caused the massive price to the participant who buys the ticket? Adding it extra like one would maybe add "processing fee" when buying a concert ticket. I imagine seeing something like: "

"Kiez Burn Ticket Price (normal) 95 Euro

Freiland charge per Person 20 Euro

Total: 115 Euro"


Kris Thu 9 Feb 2023 7:40PM

AFAIK only VAT applies here and that's deductible.

We pay more than 20 eur per camper to Freiland, so that setup doesn't really make sense. This kind of pricing is known as drip pricing, and is more and more prevalent (and annoying). This is a cost we decide we're willing to pay as a community.


Saskia Fri 10 Feb 2023 7:04AM

That is not correct. We also pay GEMA and GEMA is a hefty price tag that depends on revenue (is that the right word? The money we make with ticket and other sales b4 taxes. We only have ticket sales tho as we dont sell food or drinks). The GEMA price tag is so hefty, that the 30% GEMA discount we get over Club Commission is several times the membership-fee for club comission.

So. If we increase our prices by 20 Euro per ticket and it is seen as our ticket revenue that's more financial impact than just VAT.

(Edit: If you wonder why GEMA has no impact for Burn Night: GEMA is usually included in club rental fees as the clubs pay a straifght fee to GEMA).


Kris Fri 10 Feb 2023 3:25PM

Oh, GEMA isn't a tax, it's legalized piracy. Don't think making a surcharge would let us get away with not paying them, though.


Saskia Fri 10 Feb 2023 4:03PM

Maybe it would be worthwhile reaching out to club comission about that. I have heard that stuff that is sometimes charged with tickets (such as trash-desposit fees in some bigger festivals or charging extra for "camping passes") are listed seperatedly because of that.

I can do that quickly, doesn't cost us a thing to ask for that info. :)

Edit: and of course paying GEMA is a huge pain in the ass, there is no question about that.


Kris Sun 12 Feb 2023 2:35AM

Cool, I'll defer to our finance people on that, I know nothing about German niceties.


B r i Sun 19 Feb 2023 1:55PM

out come here is to increase the price, right?

nothing else is affected


Erin Jeavons-Fellows Mon 20 Feb 2023 12:13PM

KB is by far the cheapest burn in Europe. 115 euros for a 5-day event is already very cheap. we have plenty of room to raise it.