What do we do about Freiland's price increase?

I'm totally fine increasing the price of the ticket. But wasn't it 80€ last year so it would be 100€?

says 95 here https://tickets.kiezburn.org/2022/page/faq/

I) Yes to Kiez Burn 2023 🔥 II) Art is essential and makes a burn what it is 🎨 Taking away money from the dreams budget is a redistribution that comes at the expense of a few artists instead of the whole community. Besides, I don't see how we could reduce other infrastructure costs... So why not combine these two options?

• raise the regular ticket price, have an even more expensive "supporter" ticket with baseless and pointless (but consensual) VIP all area access, enable additional donations, keep the low income price the same

• partially fund the additional costs with the revenue of our burn nights in 2023

Are we coming from a position where it's possible to negotiate? i.e. do we have viable alternatives that are cheaper or better?

Sadly not at all, the increase is non negotiable and we told them that we will move, they are sad about but still...

We are starting to look for other places but it's highly unlikely that we find one this year.

Then it doesn’t sound like we have much choice..

It’s difficult to threaten to leave when we have nowhere to go.

Changing locations might also cost some money, I feeling that this should be part of the convo as well.

Thanks Chiara for this clear Advice Process! I ABSOLUTELY think that we should have Kiez Burn 2023, and Freiland is the only location that makes sense for this year. I am happy with the solution of raising the tickets by 20 Euros, and agree with @Kaliope that it spreads the fee increase amongst the community, rather than reducing the art funding. If possible, would be great to keep the low income ticket prices the same, but I defer to the Ticket Team as I don't know what's preferable: more low income tickets at a higher price or fewer at the same price.

Agreed, this is an unfortunate position to be put in, but the choices are limited.

My advice would be:

• Maintain the low-income ratio of 50% regular ticket cost. It's the easiest way to stay as "fair" as possible, without having to rediscuss the specific price every year.

• Raise the regular ticket price by 20€

• Create multiple 'VIP' donation -ticket options (120€, 140€, 200€) for additional arts funding.

• Add a similar option to the burn-night tickets as additional funding.

• Dedicated any leftover dreams/art/KB funds towards the move costs of next year, as a plan to address receiving a big 'fuck you' 200% non-negotiable cost hike from our partners of 4 years...... That does not match inflation.....

So the same as what most people here are saying. X x

I think we can get a fairly good conception of how willing people are to get VIP tickets, so we'll match the low income ones to that. Totally agree that the low income rebate should be substantial, but that limits how many we can have.

Also was there any plans to increase number of tickets this year? As this could also give us some playroom, like the money we could get from 10% more tickets used to fund then some of the low income tickets or at least have smaller increase in ticket price for everyone?

We need to pay 20 extra per person (it’s a camping fee), so selling more tickets would not help

Yes but the basic rent should stay the same? Like if we have hundred people more, then the money we could have gotten from them for art could go in subsidizing the tickets instead

The basic rent is a portion of the ticket sale (10% I think) so it would also increase with more participants. I might be wrong but I’m not sure we can save a significant amount of money this way.

It's a very unfortunate timing of raising the Freiland funds this drastically given the results from the Vision Weekend aka our decision to move site. Whilst I personally want a last year at Freiland and also believe it'll make emptying storage much easier if all the camps are back. What I mean with that is, as this ought to be our last year at Freiland, that we probably should find a storage unit close to Berlin and ask (plus financially support camps) to transport their entire useful storage to the new location.

Given that the move will be expensive and the storage unit will also cost things, my question is how much money we ought to save and dedicate to that move? Is it worth having a smaller Kiez Burn this year? Like a 600 people event for instance, to save money and resources?

Skipping a year is also an option. not a nice one. but an option.

I was thinking it be even more people to help make a fund for transport from one storage to the other plus whatever extra cost that will come up (as it alway does).

I guess I don't understand the system, but, less burners = more money left over?

Things like power cost more per meter of cable than usage, no?

FYI - The economics of scale mean that the more people come, the more money there is left over. Less people squeezes our budget tighter.

More people make it possible to give bigger projects (like moving). Plus it provides the possibility of more Human-Power.

I don't want Kiez Burn to be skipped and would happily pay the camping fee plus a bit extra to make it hapen 💛💸💛

+1 for increasing ticket prices. While the cost increase from Freiland is huge, 20€ more on the ticket is not that much in the grand scheme of things.

I have the impression that KB is rather affordable compared to other burns and am certainly willing to pay for a VIP ticket. I would be very sad to not have KB23.

My vote goes for these already-said options:

• Absolutely in favor of the mix of both option: increase the ticket by sth less than the hard 20 €, keep low income as 50% of the regular price. Relocate dreams and other budget to subsidize the tickets.

• Promote the VIP tickets. Explain why one should choose that ticket and what is the money for.

• "Fundraiser" through Burn Night revenue.

In the Art Budget vs. Inclusive Tickets, I personally strongly stay on the keep-them-low side of life. I've never experienced more expensive Playa Art to be better in any way. Yes, it definitely allows cool things to happen, but we're also not discussing a concept, just a one-time situation. Whereas when we increase the ticket, we are just making our event more selective, making it for low-income burners to even attend. Fuck art! (on 2023)

Other not so soft opinions, probably underevaluated:

• Charge Freiland the one year usage of Deine Mudda Feuerschale, that they stole from Storage. It's a big Schale, so I'd say 25€/day. Plus the not-even-asking-for-it fee: 200€

• We demoop before the event and leave the moop at Freiland. Not that they charge us for taking anything.

• Storage is the new Effigy! Burn, Strike and Storage all-in solution!

(and yes, very disappointed at Freiland for go so f*cking Wallstreet on us)

Hello.

I am agreeing with each and everyone here. Kiez Burn should happen. Ticket prices need to be increased. If we can we should not take it from the arts. We can and should use Burn Night and other fundraising efforts. Organizing a storage solution with the future in mind is gonna save us a lot of headaches.

I have a little bit of a different question, maybe for finance: IF we increase the ticket prices, tax wise this would mean that we 'make the money' first, wouldn't it? Is there a way to legally just act as the "collector" with never ever really bein the "owner" of the money so it doesn't really go through our finance system?

And, if not: Is there a way to make it clear what caused the massive price to the participant who buys the ticket? Adding it extra like one would maybe add "processing fee" when buying a concert ticket. I imagine seeing something like: "

"Kiez Burn Ticket Price (normal) 95 Euro

Freiland charge per Person 20 Euro

Total: 115 Euro"

AFAIK only VAT applies here and that's deductible.

We pay more than 20 eur per camper to Freiland, so that setup doesn't really make sense. This kind of pricing is known as drip pricing, and is more and more prevalent (and annoying). This is a cost we decide we're willing to pay as a community.

That is not correct. We also pay GEMA and GEMA is a hefty price tag that depends on revenue (is that the right word? The money we make with ticket and other sales b4 taxes. We only have ticket sales tho as we dont sell food or drinks). The GEMA price tag is so hefty, that the 30% GEMA discount we get over Club Commission is several times the membership-fee for club comission.

So. If we increase our prices by 20 Euro per ticket and it is seen as our ticket revenue that's more financial impact than just VAT.

(Edit: If you wonder why GEMA has no impact for Burn Night: GEMA is usually included in club rental fees as the clubs pay a straifght fee to GEMA).

Oh, GEMA isn't a tax, it's legalized piracy. Don't think making a surcharge would let us get away with not paying them, though.

Maybe it would be worthwhile reaching out to club comission about that. I have heard that stuff that is sometimes charged with tickets (such as trash-desposit fees in some bigger festivals or charging extra for "camping passes") are listed seperatedly because of that.

I can do that quickly, doesn't cost us a thing to ask for that info. :)

Edit: and of course paying GEMA is a huge pain in the ass, there is no question about that.

Cool, I'll defer to our finance people on that, I know nothing about German niceties.

out come here is to increase the price, right?

nothing else is affected

KB is by far the cheapest burn in Europe. 115 euros for a 5-day event is already very cheap. we have plenty of room to raise it.