Fri 3 Feb 2023 4:29PM

(CLOSED) Let's agree on a date for Kiez Burn 2023!

C Cairn (Clément) Public Seen by 56

This advice process is about deciding the date for Kiez Burn 2023. While a preferred date has been discussed by most current Realizers during the kickoff weekend, more information needs to be gather to ensure we make the best decision possible.


09 - 13 August

Thank you for your patience on this.

The main points that have impacted the decision:

  • Wish to not impede with other European Burns

  • Ensuring that the dates do not interfere with Rebirth, which has agreed to change their dates, as it doesn't represent a major hassle

  • Availability of the majority of Realisers

PS: Found this process too long and the restrictions too many? Join the scouting team, and help us find a new place where our doocracy can run wild and free! :)


@Cairn (Clément)

Proposer’s role:


I am writing this Advice Process on behalf of all the participants of the Kickoff Weekend 2023. This group of people includes most of the realizers for Kiezburn 2023, a lot of realizers from previous years, and some Boardies. 

Information gathered before posting

This proposal was discussed with the board, as well as during the Kickoff Weekend, on 28.01.2023.

People/roles most affected by this proposal




People/roles with the most knowledge and experience relevant to this proposal:

Participants of the Kickoff Weekend 


The proposal


Finding a date is hard. Events near and far, some being Burns, some big festivals, some KB-community-led. How do we ponder the different factors and choose a date for KB 23?

A date was discussed and agreed upon during the Kick Off weekend (see table below).

However, voices have quickly raised, bringing arguments that may not have been taken into account then.

All dates possible have cons, this is about agreeing on the least bad option.

The proposal

Let’s map all pros and cons for each date, and try to come up with a way to make the most beneficial decision for everyone involved.

Here's a table with the different events known to be attended by an unknown amount of KB members, along with the potential dates.

I will update it as needed.







































Kiez Burn Build?


Kiez Burn Build?


Kiez Burn Build?

Rebirth Burn

Kiez Burn Build?

Rebirth Burn

Kiez Burn?

Rebirth Burn

Kiez Burn?

Rebirth Burn

Kiez Burn?

Rebirth Burn

Kiez Burn?


Rebirth Burn

Kiez Burn?









Phoenix Fire Convention

Phoenix Fire Convention

Phoenix Fire Convention


Burning Man

Phoenix Fire Convention


Burning Man

Burning Man

Burning Man

Burning Man

Burning Man

Burning Man


Burning Man



Community organised event

What do we want to take into account in deciding a date?

  • Freiland's restrictions. Weekend of 15.07 is first Burn weekend possible. Non negotiable. (So build from 07.07)

  • Availability of current Realisers. Most were present during Kick off weekend, but not all.

  • Sustainability. Decision has been made during Kick Off to put Sustainability at the core of how we work together and create Kiez Burn. Should we give the same importance to far away events, as this can be considered a facilitation of a non sustainable practice? This concerns Burning Man mainly, but also Nowhere/Borderlands

  • Homeburns. The dates agreed on at Kick Off overlap Rebirth (aka Funeral). Assumption was made that moving this event would be less trouble for the 100 people involved than it would be for 1000 people KB to find other dates. However this has not been communicated with the organisers beforehand (As organiser of the Kick Off, I'd like to apologise for that, that's just shitty), nor confirmed with them

  • Which other events are Realisers actually intending on attending? See the poll in comments

How would the proposal be implemented

  1. Gathering of advice & inputs from Realizers, impacted peeps, and community (until 17.02)

  2. If the proposed date (09-13.08) is clearly the best choice, validate & confirm with Freiland.

  3. If outcome is uncertain, a vote will be opened, for one week, before a decision is taken

Who would implement this proposal

All of us?

I’m driving this AP, but the implementation of the event and decision communication falls on Realisers, Site Liaison, Communicors.

When would this proposal be implemented

Best case by 17.02, worst a week later.

What would be the cost (time, money, effort, etc.) of this proposal

Time/effort: Gathering advice (not opinions or wishes), and trying to find the least inconvenient dates.

What are the advantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)

We have an event in 2023, pretty cool no?

What are the disadvantages of this proposal (relative to the current situation and/or counter-proposals)

We have to work to have an event?


A decision on what date we want KB 23 to be should happen in the next three weeks, so we can go ahead with booking a date with Freiland.


Kris Fri 3 Feb 2023 9:32PM

9 days??? Heck yes!


Cairn (Clément) Sat 4 Feb 2023 11:15AM

Ah ah yes this is including Build, updated the table to clarify this.


Jack Sat 4 Feb 2023 10:00AM

I think these 9 days is including build 😂.

For the purpose of realizer recruiting I am in favour of the proposed dates as I think we should avoid clashing with other big Burner events (similar size or bigger), not festivals where there is only fairly little community overlap (Roztoc)


Kaliope Sat 4 Feb 2023 11:38AM

14-20 August would give the possibility not to overlap with any other Burner events, including the build days and Rebirth (which is being organized by many people from our community that we love and would miss at kiez burn – is there already a statement? besides, this is another local event and much closer to berlin – unlike borderland, nowhere and BM...)


Alex Kaos Sat 4 Feb 2023 3:54PM

Yes I can see the influence the Prometheans are having on KB as Promethean-orientated events got into this calendar.....

Rebirth Burn > Roztoc/Phoenix, within the context of KB.

(Fyi those are my highest earning weekends of the year, so I am advising against my own interests here)

I agree with @Jack on that point.

I also would advice to take the @everyone tag on this AP with a grain of salt. This is s decision made by the realizes, korg and board. The rest of the community show up once those teams have done the heavy lifting, and including our (community) voices at this stage can make extra noise.

It's a 'nice' thing to do, but please;

  • Focus on the agreement of the 20% that do 80% of the work for this decision.

    Especially in the interest of sustainability.


Ceci Sat 4 Feb 2023 6:35PM

on a different note:

these are my considerations why i would rather have the burn on 15.07-23.07 :)

  • first big major reason for me: better earlier than later ;) I personally see myself having to juggle between organizing towards a well structure event and wanting to enjoy summer. i could imagine higher risk for burn outs and fuck ups the later the event will be. I can also imagine lots people taking less responsabilities, as they can imagine to be pretty worn out from summer parties already. I asked myself: if the event last year would have been one month later, would i have had the same amount of energy to put in it? i wouldnt, as it was already pretty burnouty pre-event like this!:/ but of course this is just my personal experience.

  • Why is boom taken so strongly into considertaion? it´s not a burn and it´s in portugal. is there also a very big part of kiez burners who goes there this year that i´m not aware of? personally i this that if we have boom in the list we should have also other cool festivals that are happening around. of course that would mean that we couldnt find any date as there is a cool festival for every different week in summer :)

  • i would also discuss the topic that we should prioritize bigger events over the fairly small community events: the re-birth will host about 100 KB ( and pretty much the whole Kunt camp :)) which is a pretty high ratio (1/12) Can this be said the same for borderland for example? or for Burning man itself? do we have a lot of people in the KB community who are majorly involved in Borderland Build?. just asking because i actually have no idea :)


Poll Created Sun 5 Feb 2023 11:11AM

Let's find out who actually goes to any of these mentioned festivals? Closed Fri 17 Feb 2023 10:00PM

by B r i Sun 19 Feb 2023 1:45PM

24 people voted

Nowhere is the clear winner with 10 votes

Rebirth, with 7 votes, sounds like it would move around KB as originally mentioned in the Kick-of weekend... potentially kicking it off the ballot, and having it hover above like an angelic soul, ready to rebirth into the new date, once the pregnant pause of deciding a date for KB is over.

Borderland gets -2 points, bc of the non-commitment of 2 voters, putting it at 4 votes

If we organize the priorities of the group of people that voted, they would look like:


2) Kiezburn ∞)Rebirth

3)Phoenix fire



6)Burning man

Realizer or not, though we technically know who has volunteered to 'realize.'

This would help to have a clearer view of the number of people (that are involved) that will not miss the other festival, rather then just saying 'some people will go here and a person will go there.'

I'm aware of the secondary reason to not conflict with other burns and not compete for like minded attendees, this is to see involved peoples plans.

On the other side, KB has always sold out and fresh blood helps practice and teach principles including Inclusion 😌


Results Option % of points Voters
Nowehere 25.6% 10 EJ C CT A K AK H P B H
Rebirth 17.9% 7 C EJ MK VRS CT C B
Borderland 15.4% 6 JH PAK JK G AK H
Only Kiezburn 15.4% 6 JH J BRI K M S
Phoenix fire 12.8% 5 C K C A AK
Roztoc 7.7% 3 A AK P
THE Burning man 5.1% 2 K H
Boom 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 0  

24 of 24 people have participated (100%)


Jaina Hirai Sun 5 Feb 2023 12:02PM

Only Kiezburn

I typically only go to Kiez Burn, but if I were to attend a second burn in 2023 it would be "Where The Sheep Sleep" in the Netherlands, which is not listed. If I were to attend a third burn, it would be Borderland.


Kaylin Sun 5 Feb 2023 12:30PM

Phoenix fire

Fireplay and local


Bee Mon 6 Feb 2023 11:31AM


Nowhere is not confirmed yet but I will definitely attend the Rebirth.

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