9 days??? Heck yes!

Ah ah yes this is including Build, updated the table to clarify this.

I think these 9 days is including build 😂.

For the purpose of realizer recruiting I am in favour of the proposed dates as I think we should avoid clashing with other big Burner events (similar size or bigger), not festivals where there is only fairly little community overlap (Roztoc)

14-20 August would give the possibility not to overlap with any other Burner events, including the build days and Rebirth (which is being organized by many people from our community that we love and would miss at kiez burn – is there already a statement? besides, this is another local event and much closer to berlin – unlike borderland, nowhere and BM...)

Yes I can see the influence the Prometheans are having on KB as Promethean-orientated events got into this calendar.....

Rebirth Burn > Roztoc/Phoenix, within the context of KB.

(Fyi those are my highest earning weekends of the year, so I am advising against my own interests here)

I agree with @Jack on that point.

I also would advice to take the @everyone tag on this AP with a grain of salt. This is s decision made by the realizes, korg and board. The rest of the community show up once those teams have done the heavy lifting, and including our (community) voices at this stage can make extra noise.

It's a 'nice' thing to do, but please;

• Focus on the agreement of the 20% that do 80% of the work for this decision.

  Especially in the interest of sustainability.

on a different note:

these are my considerations why i would rather have the burn on 15.07-23.07 :)

• first big major reason for me: better earlier than later ;) I personally see myself having to juggle between organizing towards a well structure event and wanting to enjoy summer. i could imagine higher risk for burn outs and fuck ups the later the event will be. I can also imagine lots people taking less responsabilities, as they can imagine to be pretty worn out from summer parties already. I asked myself: if the event last year would have been one month later, would i have had the same amount of energy to put in it? i wouldnt, as it was already pretty burnouty pre-event like this!:/ but of course this is just my personal experience.

• Why is boom taken so strongly into considertaion? it´s not a burn and it´s in portugal. is there also a very big part of kiez burners who goes there this year that i´m not aware of? personally i this that if we have boom in the list we should have also other cool festivals that are happening around. of course that would mean that we couldnt find any date as there is a cool festival for every different week in summer :)

• i would also discuss the topic that we should prioritize bigger events over the fairly small community events: the re-birth will host about 100 KB ( and pretty much the whole Kunt camp :)) which is a pretty high ratio (1/12) Can this be said the same for borderland for example? or for Burning man itself? do we have a lot of people in the KB community who are majorly involved in Borderland Build?. just asking because i actually have no idea :)

Hi just came here to say that I don't care - I think the people taking the biggest realiser roles are more than capable to decide the dates and this doesn't need my input. For me KB is the most important event of the summer and I will make my other plans around it. Having a date to mark to my calendar is more important to me than what the date actually is so that I can start planning. It's sadly impossible to make everyone happy and that is the weight that the decision makers need to carry.

signing

TLDR : Kiez Burn should avoid clashing with emerging local burns and di-prioritize large-international burns. Move the date to earlier: 17.07

I am involved in Kiez Burn and Re-birth. I am doing efforts to form a team to take on Storage for Kiez burn this year, and will also be involved in re-birth. I think that if these two events happen at the same time, either Kiez burn will miss a whole camp with around 30 members who have brought so much to the event OR, simply a small regional burn will not happen (re-birth). I think both are sad, just remember that Kiez Burn once was just as small...

From a more broad community standpoint

I also believe we should as community builders ensure Kiez Burn is not stepping over other local initiatives or burns that happen in the area instead of prioritizing bigger burns with 1000+ participants in other countries, these events will not be at such risk to not happen when overlapping with Kiez Burn. I understand people want to go to more burns, but I believe that whenever possible, Kiez Burn should care about the emerging events that house a portion of Kiez burn itself. Re birth also receives a percentage of new burners who get to see the 11 principles better and closer as not possible in bigger burns, impacting positively the burner community locally.

I think is not about avoiding clashing with other events to be able to attend more burns, but to build a community from where we are and continue empowering people to take initiatives not only for the benefit of Kiez event! From Kiez Burn comes Re-birth, are we gonna kill it? this is sad.

My memory from the Kickoff Weekend is that we agreed that Kiezburn would happen 9-13 August only at the condition that the Rebirth could move to early July without too much hassle - which seemed to be the case initially due to less restrictions on location. I don’t think it was ever anyone’s intention to have both events at the same time or to consider it less important than other burns, that would be very unfair (personally I care more about attending the Rebirth than other EU burns or festivals, and I think that’s true for a lot of people). So if that was a wrong assumption and the Rebirth cannot or doesn’t really want to move (which is fair enough, the date was decided first) I think we should change the date for Kiezburn. Is that the case?

Hi there!

Chiming in here as the org lead for ReBirth. I'm aware that this has been a topic. It's disappointing that KB is kuntsidering the weekend that we have allockunted for our little event. However, it is possible to move our dates.

It won't be moved to the beginning of July as Nowhere is something I would like to attend.

If our dates get chosen, Rebirth will be moved to probably June, September or October. The kunts will need at least a month either side of KB to plan for this as most are leads for Rebirth event.

As a follow up question to your last sentence about the Kunts needing at least a month either side of KB (which makes total sense). This would mean that we actually connot not overlap with Rebirth, correct? Unless we take the burn weekend 16.07, meaning our build overlaps again with Nowhere which had it's own issues last year (realiser shortage, burnt out burners, covid overlap, etc).

As currently it seems that almost no one of the realizers goes to the Big Burn, should we not consider, putting Kiezburn on that weekend(as opposed to take it completely out of consideration like we done during the Kickoff weekend)? My guess would be that Borderland and Nowhere are much bigger competition for many in the community then the big one. I share also the opinion that Boom and other non Burner Events should not be taken in consideration, as otherwise you never can stop, because what about Ozora, Wilde Möhre or the thousand other cool festivals a handful people go.

More Kiez Burners should go to Burning Man and get a sense of what it's like tbh.

totally agree!!!

you're paying!! 🎉

OK, step one is that we become an official regional so I can get you some free tickets

actually working on an advice process about that as we speak xD

I would highly recommend doing Kiez Burn in August, maybe like Johannes suggested during the Big Burn weekend or sadly a bit close to the Rebirth Burn. Doing Kiez Burn in July last year ended up with many issues due to overlapping with the big regional burns. For instance, we had a lack of experienced realizers able to commit or able to be there during build as they were at Nowhere, exhausted from Nowhere or covid sick from Nowhere. Whilst I agree with Vero, that from a community-building standpoint we should prioritise our own local endeavours more than the bigger burns elsewhere (and we did this consideration last year with Holger's burn), the reality is that just as many of our inhabitants if not more go to those bigger regional burns as they go to Rebirth.

Going forward at our new TBC-Gelände, returning to our June dates should be advisable to never have this terrible weighing of Burns ever again. But this year, alas.

Re-Birth Burn for president!

Let's take the burning man weekend and subtract a bunch of flights to Nevada and back from our environmental footprint!

Jokes aside... how do we make this decision? I think a lot of us would need to know rather soon. Can we call a realizer meeting this week and vote? I don't really see a clear winner from this discussion, but these seem to be the options if we decide to only consider EU burns as important factors:

19-23.07: between the two big EU burns

2.08-6.08: kb build overlaps with borderland, rebirth would need to be rescheduled

9.08-13.08: rebirth would need to be rescheduled

16.08-20.08: rebirth would need to be rescheduled

27.08-27.08: given the promethean involvement with phoenix, many of us would be sad about this - but it does seem fair to prioritize burns over fire conventions.

31.08-3.09: overlap with the Big Burn. Maybe more importantly, diluting the work of kiezburn orga over the entire summer sounds exhausting.

In any case, if it'll happen in one of the first 3 weeks of august, the rebirth will be reschedule. So there is no need to take it in account with the build and strike 😊

thanks for clarifying! I've edited the comment :)

Please someone call a meeting and make a decision already. Just following this indecisiveness here is making my hair go gray :D No one wants to take responsibility over the decision? I volunteer making it myself. I decide on the week of 16.08-20.08. There. DONE.

Hey everyone, thank you so much for your inputs!

As we see, it's not possible to make a perfect decision.

Now that we have gathered as many of the elements to take into account, the Board will review the topic and come back with a decision asap.

Latest by our next meeting on 23.02, ideally earlier 🙂

Today’s the decision day! Full trust in the board’s decision, whatever it may be. I am beyond excited to know the dates will be set today! 😍

How many people can go to rebirth? It's unfortunate there's a clash. Is it open to the community still or set? I feel very out of the loop with this event, only heard of it in passing.

100~ or so folk I guess including an entire camp and a lot of Kiez Burn Realizers. It is generally open to the community but also much smaller than KB so limited tickets. (therefore doesn't get widely advertised as the orga roles are 40% or maybe more of the tickets sold)

Inside goss is that Nowhere will make a go-ahead decision by end of month. We might actually announce before them this time! (cc @Cairn (Clément) )

Is there a decision on the date now, or how will it happen? The originally proposed date 9.-13.8. with build starting from 5.8. would be fine with Freiland. I can't see a clear alternative proposal, and thanks to the kind Rebirth crew to being open to move their event.

So unless there is a clear alternative proposal (which I can't see currently) - Can please reach a go or no-go decision on going with 9.-13.8. now? It's less than 6 months until the intended date and we need to urgently move forward.

UPDATE: DECISION HAS BEEN REACHED, WE HAVE DATES!

09 - 13 August

Thank you for your patience on this.

The main points that have impacted the decision:

• Wish to not impede with other European Burns

• Ensuring that the dates do not interfere with Rebirth, which has agreed to change their dates, as it doesn't represent a major hassle

• Availability of the majority of Realisers

PS: Found this process too long and the restrictions too many? Join the scouting team, and help us find a new place where our doocracy can run wild and free! :)

Thank you for the info! To be sure I got this right, will the burn officially end on Sunday or on Monday? I had heard a rumor we would end on Monday this year, and was very excited to have a “Sleepy Sunday” Temple and recovery day. [EDIT: I'm totally okay if the Board decided against the extra day of burn, just want to give my camp correct and accurate info]