talk.kiezburn.org
July 26th, 2021 14:36

Consent Discussion & Educational project

Caroline
Caroline Public Seen by 187

This thread is to discuss about CONSENT and to co-create & share educational material to offer to the community at the Kiez Burn event and satellite events too!

As consent is our 11th principle and as consent is always about education, why not put some poster in the toilets (It has been done at other burns like Nowhere).

🌼Come discuss consent, post your resources, share what happened to you (at Kiez Burn or somewhere else), ask your questions, etc



Educational content for your campmates:

About consent at the burn, see for reference:


Organisation -

Here is a drive folder in the Kiez Burn Organization drive to keep material

How to provide info at the event?
I've been told @Fabi 🦥 was printing some stuff out. Could you print and laminate around 40 A4-poster on top of whatever you're already doing? Thanks a lot. Veroca told me it would fall under the volunteers' budget. (See below to have the documents)

For this year, I can grab the poster and put them up in the toilets on Wednesday and take them back on Monday or Sunday evening.

However, I'm not sure I will be returned to Kiez Burn next year. Should I give it to someone? Maybe @River Aleks from welfare? Maybe @Caro T or anyone from a kinky/queer-barrio who (i hope) should care about consent?

@Veroca R. Sala if there is space available, I would love to make a blast on social Media/Telegram with educational content about consent at burn.


Which poster will be used

@Sunniva will do the posters!! Woop! They will have the Kiez Burn logo and everything.

The plan is to make one about hearing a no, one about silence is not consent and we are a diverse community and people express themselves differently and one about being a bystandar.

Inspiration:

The poster I have are not perfect but they are better than nothing. If you have any idea of what we can use instead right now please hit up the comment

Sunniva

Sunniva December 3rd, 2021 10:58

Seeing this now! Happy it worked itself out. For next time I’m always available via email: sunnivainnstrand@gmail.com 😊

Jessie

Jessie November 17th, 2021 18:54

@Kate Let's talk via Telegram. I'm already in contact with Fabi, who print out these posters for us.

Kate

Kate November 17th, 2021 15:16

Dear @Sunniva, can you maybe send a printable version of all your beautiful posters to burnnight@kiezburn.org? We wanna reuse them for the Burn Night... budget is no problem so I believe it's easier to re-print them... FYI @Jessie @Veroca R. Sala

Jessie

Jessie August 31st, 2021 13:37

Alright.
The Ranger Radio Box contains:
25 Walkie Talkies
12 (+ 1?) Walkie charger
10 Walkie earplugs

The Radios are labeled from 1-25.
After the Event one came up to me and said, that somebody mistakenly gave his Walkie Talkie (that looks alike, but has a sticker behind the clip) to one of the Rangers. I don't know, if he got back his Radio. He didn' tell me. So maybe, we only own 24 Radios.

I didnt count the Chains.

Also, you find the Inventory List in Google Drive (Kiez Burn 2021 - Rangers)

Purzel

Purzel August 31st, 2021 12:44

I'll be back in my flat today or tomorrow and will let you know 👍

Can you send me the inventory when you're finished? It would help me keep track, in case the radios are used for events.

Jessie

Jessie August 31st, 2021 12:30

Just for confirmation: @Purzel You brought the Box with the Ranger Radios back to Berlin, yes? Would be also great, if you could tell me, how many Radios are in there. I do the Inventory and I counted 25 when I left the Place. Thx :-)

Jessie

Jessie August 31st, 2021 12:19

Yes, most of them are in the Ranger Box in Storage.

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala August 31st, 2021 06:09

yes, one set of posters are at mine, which is fine, so we can use them at events in berlin. 👌 I ma missing the the rest

Caroline

Caroline August 28th, 2021 10:23

Oh, and @Sunniva picked te wellfare ones because it was not used at wellfare. Maybe one set of poster made it to Berlin :)

Cris

Cris August 28th, 2021 09:25

@Jessie pick them up, right? In which box are they?

Because if they are in the rangers boxes, they may be in Storage

Caroline

Caroline August 27th, 2021 23:54

I've put (most of) them down and put it in the ranger tent when it was still up.

I believe we agreed tongive it to the rangers somewhere here on talk but i can't find it tonight

A

Ale August 27th, 2021 20:20

I think welfare was supposed to take them and store them. Maybe @River Aleks knows more?

Purzel

Purzel August 27th, 2021 19:25

I haven't completely digged in the box yet (will happen on the 01. or 02. when I'm back in my flat) but the box seems way to small to contain the posters.

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala August 27th, 2021 11:59

@Purzel are the posters inside the box with the rangers radios you brought to berlin??? i thiknk they are!, in that case would you let us know? perhaps can be used in the decom/ kiez burn Night, but please, if you give it to someone would be nice to take the name of the person and make sure the posters are brought back so that are available for future events. thanks! ( ill add consent lead to the decom-lead roles.

Caroline

Caroline July 30th, 2021 17:26

@Cris asked for.

I do not have the prices yet. If not possible in A3 it will be A4

Cris

Cris July 30th, 2021 16:32

If you could add Rangers to the Gate, Greeters, Welfare list, I'd be thankful. Otherwise I'll take care of those. Just confirm me, pls, with whatever

Caroline

Caroline July 30th, 2021 15:07

[PRINTING]

I asked Fabi to print

  • the four posters from @Sunniva each A4 x6 -> 24 posters for the toilets

  • the four posters from @Sunniva each A3 x5 -> set of big posters for Gate, Greeters, wainting room from covid test (if possible), ranger and Wellfare

  • The consent culture + running interference A4 x2 -> for Wellfare and Rangers.

Am I missing something?

Sunniva

Sunniva July 29th, 2021 18:46

Here’s two more great explanations of consent for beginners!

These could work well for the 𝐩𝐫𝐞-𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐧𝐭-𝐝𝐢𝐠𝐢𝐭𝐚𝐥-𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐭-𝐞𝐝𝐮𝐜𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧-𝐦𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐡𝐨𝐧 @Veroca R. Sala

  1. This animation comparing consent to a cup of tea https://youtu.be/oQbei5JGiT8

  1. This cute comic by the one and only Tikva Wolf

Sven Dudink

Sven Dudink July 29th, 2021 16:18

Awesomeness, what a great posters ❤️ Thanks for putting all this work into it

Sunniva

Sunniva July 29th, 2021 15:23

Yep these are meant to be used in addition to the other classics I think. Maybe next time I'll make some more for Kiez Burn specifically covering intro to consent.

A

Ale July 29th, 2021 15:20

Wow they look great!! ❤️ Thank you so much!!

Will we be using only those or the other ones as well additionally? I guess „how to ask for consent“ and „how to state your no/yes“ in different ways is something that’s always important and probably one of the first hurdles. ☺️

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 29th, 2021 15:20

@Sunniva I have just sent them via telegram to fabi!

Sunniva

Sunniva July 29th, 2021 15:08

How can I best share them with you for the printing @Fabi 🦥?

Bee

Bee July 29th, 2021 14:21

Super awesome posters!! Thank you Sunniva :) And also love that you're taking the colourblind burners into account with the colour scheme! ;)

Laia

Laia July 29th, 2021 14:08

Wow😍 Just got emotional about this💧. Aaaaahhh lot of thanks! ❤️

Mi Go

Mi Go July 29th, 2021 13:20

@Caroline For what it's worth, if you have capacity at the Burn I think many would come. (raises hand) Here's one voice encouraging you to beat down that imposter syndrome! :) I hear and honor the concerns and nuances that CJ has raised, while I think that culturally and systemically it is undeniable that sexism and power dynamics play a role in many consent breaches and the bystander behaviour that enables them. A discussion along these lines would be healthy to foster in the kiezburncommunity.

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 29th, 2021 12:35

They look amazing!! I have replaced the ones I used for the FB marathon, for these cause are cooler, and more accurate, adjusted to kiez burn. love the flirting one the person has a burner cup hanging! so they are coming out in the daily FB post. Plus making a blast on telegram❤️

Thank you all!

Cris

Cris July 29th, 2021 12:30

¡Mecagoenlaleche, Sunni! You're a f*ng Goddess! I love you!

If you'd agree that I spread them around among the Rangers and Deine Mudda,send the high res my way, bitte!

Sunniva

Sunniva July 29th, 2021 09:57

Meow! Here's the posters I've made! Please have a look and hit me up for higher resolution files. They've already gone through a couple of feedback rounds with @Caroline and two other trusted friends. If you have any final comments this is your chance. Apparently blue and yellow should be a good combination for colorblind folks?

Tagging a few of the active folks in this thread for you to see and just in case you have something to say before we move on 🙂

@Cris @Veroca R. Sala @Laia @Mareike @Bee @Fabi 🦥 @CJ Yetman

Cris

Cris July 28th, 2021 15:46

On the Ranger Manual we have this, which can be applied to any participant:

In approaching any situation, a  Ranger’s initial default action is TO DO NOTHING. If, in the process of doing nothing, you decide that your presence would be helpful, engage by helping participants solve their own problems. If the situation still needs attention, call the Ranger Lead.

Remember: your first priority is your own safety. Initiate an action only if you feel comfortable and confident.

Approach those involved in the incident slowly, visibly, and without getting too close. Explain all of your actions before you take them. When entering someone’s Kiez, ask for permission: “Hey, is it okay if I come in?”, “Do you mind if I take a seat?”, “Can I take my pack off and stay a while?” 

Respect the participant’s personal space. Be aware of your positioning skills and body language. Speak calmly and casually. 

Slow down the pace: this will help to reduce feelings of being overwhelmed. Diffusing tense situations is a core Ranger skill. Slowing the situation down is one of the best ways to help overwhelmed participants calm down.

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 28th, 2021 14:23

Changed how to say NO for this:

@Cris @Jessie thinking of making fb post about what to do AT THE EVENT if there is a consent violation. Which words do you you suggest from the ranger perspective? this is more for newbies ( but for all in the end) thanks

👤

Anonymous July 28th, 2021 13:57

Sunniva

Sunniva July 28th, 2021 13:52

Sure thing I’ll hit you up with the files if there isn’t enough printing budget @Mareike

Caroline

Caroline July 28th, 2021 13:43

@Sunniva will very probably have the time to make a pronouns one :)

Caroline

Caroline July 28th, 2021 13:40

Woo good idea !!

I don't like the "how to say no" one because it is not mentionned that even if you havent said no properly (just staid silent, maybe or giggle) IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

In my opinion, doing a poster on that subject is really difficult. Workshops are a better place because you have much more place for nuance + you can practice

Instead i would put the pronouns one or maybe the rape culture pyramide available here https://www.11thprincipleconsent.org/consent-propaganda/rape-culture-pyramid/

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 28th, 2021 13:26

@Sunniva @Caroline i thought on a 𝐩𝐫𝐞-𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐧𝐭-𝐝𝐢𝐠𝐢𝐭𝐚𝐥-𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐭-𝐞𝐝𝐮𝐜𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧-𝐦𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐡𝐨𝐧, for what i have scheduled a daily post on facebook ( from my personal acc not Kiez Burn e.V)

Here are the up coming 6 facebook posts ( every day at 6pm) https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1adG5_b5J1OVGFxn1FwHEekqho7LR46kD?usp=sharing

If you think there is something super relevant that I could post before Friday the 6TH (Build starts) lemme know!❤️

Cris

Cris July 28th, 2021 12:59

Thank you @Laia for your comment! I took the liberty to use bits of it to improve this topic in the rangers manual :)

Caroline

Caroline July 28th, 2021 12:18

@Laia consent posters will be non gendered, toilets also i think (with pissoirs and pussoirs)

About the pronouns posters, as i've said to cris in a comment bellow i would prefer to concentrate on consent the toilets as there hzs been consent breach and a lot of peoole are not enough educated with it.

But as you are several to ask maybe we can see if @Sunniva has the time to make a fourth poster about pronouns.

I can also find the unicorn coloriage one if you want some for your kiez (so people can colour their own unocorn)

Cris

Cris July 28th, 2021 10:37

Yes,please!!

Cris

Cris July 28th, 2021 10:37

Gladly. If I recall correctly, this one is already among the Rangers stuff.

Laia

Laia July 28th, 2021 09:58

Ohhh! 💜I just saw the last two ones about pronouns. Very very very much support it.

Laia

Laia July 28th, 2021 09:53

Hi! It's possible to do something about gender identity?

The last burn I was we made some posters about respecting people's pronouns. Also in the toilets. (Also I hope those are non gendered)

"Don't assume people pronouns"

"Respecting people pronouns is respecting their gender identity"

"Ask about pronouns" etc

In burns that are so lgbt friendly and many people plays with gender expression, I got more missgendered here than in the default world. And this triggers a lot of anxiety until I find some really aware burners and queer/trans burners with whom stick with and feel safe.

I totally super encourage that people play with gender expression and gender identity (and it's really nice to see people discover themselves in that way). But it's nice also to be aware that it's a part of trans people identity and should be addressed seriously and cautiously as well when it matters. That would make trans/intersex/nb people to feel more safe and welcomed.

Mareike

Mareike July 28th, 2021 07:50

Very close to my heart, thank you so much for bringing this forward!❤️ Could we get a poster for the Gate + Greeting too @Caroline ? If there is no printing budget anymore I would also be happy to just get the final files and print/laminate them myself :)

Caroline

Caroline July 28th, 2021 06:44

Yes yes. Maybe to just put in rangers tent and welfare?

Cris

Cris July 27th, 2021 23:32

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 27th, 2021 21:49

Cool sounds good! then you guys do the posters for toilets, welfare, rangers etc. No Kieze.

Budget I can provide is 50--80 max. Hope these is enough to get them laminated for further use🤗

Thank you!!!

Caroline

Caroline July 27th, 2021 18:19

So @Sunniva is going to make posters!
The plan is to make one about hearing a no, one about silence is not consent and we are a diverse community and people express themselves differently and one about being a bystandar.

About the posters of the pronouns @Cris, while I found them really important, I think damage that can be done by a consent breach are more hurtful and sadly happens a lot at burn. (sorry I don't know how to phrase it). I think it's better to focus on this subject.
If you want the gender unicorn or the other one about asking for pronouns, to be printed let me know and I'll deliver it to it to you, to be put wherever you like. Taging @Veroca R. Sala to know if this one should go under volunteers budget or not

Caroline

Caroline July 27th, 2021 17:54

@Fabi 🦥 awsomly cheap! @Sunniva is going to make beatiful poster with the kiezburn logo so people reading it take the educational part more seriously. When would it be the deadline for sending you the poster?


@Veroca R. Sala i can distribute material to the kiez but i don't know what to use and i will not have time to coordinate with kiez in details.
The Nowhere's barrio consent guide is awsome to read before the burn (especially by veteran camp member, it's focusing on leading by example). Maybe just sending that to read to kiez leads is a good enough start... @Erin Jeavons-Fellows

Sunniva

Sunniva July 27th, 2021 16:24

Hii! Fellow consent education enthusiast here 👋

Thank you for initiating this! I like your suggestions above, all though they are all focusing on verbal cues for consent, when indeed consent is more layered and nuanced than that. I have some time on my hands and a digital drawing board and some design programs, and would be happy to make something by tomorrow. Let me know if you wanna collaborate? You can reach me on Telegram (@sunniva) if you'd like to contact me faster and directly. I'd be happy to have a call with you tonight or tomorrow!

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 27th, 2021 15:03

So a final number of copies is better to coordinate with @Caroline . I can only say I can provide with those 60 bucks to print the toilet posters ( maybe a bit more)

there are two initiatives here @Fabi 🦥

1# toilet posters in color

To my understanding ( Caro correct me if im wrong) the most relevant are the Toilets posters, 40 ( 2 units per toilet) + 16 ( to add to welfare, rangers, gate etc) these will be copies in color + laminated IF possible and sufficient budget.

I could try to extract some ore budget from volunteer coordination and direct more to this purpose given I consider these posters are important to raise awareness in a burn that every year welcomes newbies, if the posters were laminated they could be reused next year ❤️

#2Complementary educational material - Black and white
As I understand it depends on whether Caro wants to move forward and offer the extra educational reading material for each Kiez.

If she does, Im not sure how many pages will these bundles have. From what I see in the listed linked material on this very thread, looks like altogether could be something like 6 double-sided-printed pages for each camp (?) we have 35 Kieze (?).

We could request a few bucks to each Kiez that wants to have it (we only need to know how much is it)

@Fabi 🦥 All these data are very lightly calculated. But for you to have a rough idea of what we are talking about.

Fabi 🦥

Fabi 🦥 July 27th, 2021 12:33

@Veroca R. Sala i won't have to charge for a quantity of 40-50 sheets printed. if they all need to be laminated i could probably do that for 20€

Fabi 🦥

Fabi 🦥 July 27th, 2021 12:27

@Veroca R. Sala how many copies? b/w or color?

Jessie

Jessie July 27th, 2021 10:32

Thx for reaching out to me. Yes please. Would be great if you could print it out. Thank you very much.

River Aleks

River Aleks July 27th, 2021 09:08

@Caroline you could bring it to Welfare after the burn and we could store it for the next year for sure, no problemo

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 27th, 2021 09:07

@Caroline I dont exactly know how much money I can allocate for the printing cause I still dont have an answer from Fabi on how much the costs each copy is, but I could calculate already it won't be much more than 50 bucks for the consent flyers.

If you need them in color and laminated it might not be enough money, considering we also want a German copy. ( something like 40/50 color printed copies in total)

Complimentary educative material ( besides the toilets)

  • Thinking we could have more consent reading material at the camps? maybe the Kieze want to chip in some coins to print and have at their workshops tents and tables (?) we arrange the affordable printing with Fabi and distribute the material onsite to the Keize ( idea, I dont have the capacity to execute, only dropping this here and tag @Erin Jeavons-Fellows )

  • We could print these in black and white... it shouldn't be much money.

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 27th, 2021 08:51

yes!! Cris Olano is her tag

Caroline

Caroline July 27th, 2021 05:49

@Jessie do you want us to print this one out to put in the wanderer tent?

https://www.11thprincipleconsent.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/rangers_guide2014.pdf

It's burning man oriented (see last advice) but it's still good tips

Thanks @ cris on fb

A

Ale July 26th, 2021 21:46

I know what you mean. There’s a note at the bottom, but it’s easily overlooked I guess.

Caroline

Caroline July 26th, 2021 21:34

I would add this one to emphasis on the need to hear a real yes: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETxogH-WoAAWPGR.jpg:large

Caroline

Caroline July 26th, 2021 21:28

Yes i like it.
The "how to say non" one is bothering me a little because it doesn't say at all that silence is not consent and that could be interpreted as (internalized) victim blaming. What do you think?

Bee

Bee July 26th, 2021 21:22

Very much so! :D

A

Ale July 26th, 2021 21:21

Bee

Bee July 26th, 2021 21:17

Heya I like these posters! Was having a talk about this very idea earlier today and love this initiative. I would like to suggest/add an additional poster in this theme which is 'how to ask for consent?' because I think sadly there are some people who just aren't very well practiced in this area -especially those new to Burns/the idea of consent as a principle. Also taking into account some people are not able to actively say no or may go into 'freeze' mode based on how they respond to a situation, so consent ideally is proactively sought on all sides.

I imagine it would have some basic check in phrases to help normalise these when they're seen (& hopefully heard) around. 'Are you comfortable?' 'Would you like to...?' 'Would you like to slow down?' 'Can I x/y/z?' 'Should we take a little break?' etc.

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 26th, 2021 16:46

the "copy" is the text itself. i Meant, perhaps Kiez Burners wanted to adjust the content of posters (?),

Maybe we just collect all materials and then we choose what goes best in thw toilets... We could just gather all these and facilitate materials to a workshop or something in the future. ❤️

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 26th, 2021 16:02

thanks, adding this to the top of the thread so it doesnt get lost in the comments

Caroline

Caroline July 26th, 2021 15:58

If there is a previous case of female on male consent breach at kiez burn, I see why the Sexism Free Night posters might be badly accepted by the community and even could be percieve as "not trusting the victim". Thanks for letting me know.

I think it's a better idea to not put these posters if there is no other work and content behind.

One day (when I won't have imposteur syndrome) I'l organise a workshop about the links between oppression and breach of consent.


For now let's just do the best with what we have

CJ Yetman

CJ Yetman July 26th, 2021 15:44

I’m not strictly opposed to any of these posters, and I agree anything is better than nothing. I would just prefer to take the opportunity to also include incidents which, at least from my perspective, are rather common, even if they typically go unreported and therefore don’t make it into any statistics. I also don’t have the time to realize it myself this year, so I just leave this as a suggestion for anyone that might have the time and initiative. And thank you for your effort and initiative already! 💗

Caroline

Caroline July 26th, 2021 15:43

I especially like the "ask before touching" ones.
As they are shorter, maybe we can put them in the urinals and keep the long ones for poop spaces?

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 26th, 2021 15:36

you dont have to, we can modify a bit the top o the thread announcing that this is not a decision making thread but a discussion thread. If things gets heated then we will see, but you dont need to brig all asnwers! ❤️

A

Ale July 26th, 2021 15:34

http://loslassen.org/consent/

Here are some posters I found as well.

Caroline

Caroline July 26th, 2021 15:33

Yes it is a good idea. However, it might bring a storm here, as it's always the case with touching subject like consent. I will not have the energy or the time to answer everything if it goes out of hands.
I can remove the Sexism Free Night poster as it is touchy -especially for male victims- to associate patriarcat with consent violation. It is a very intricated subject and that might not be the time and place to talk about it.

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 26th, 2021 15:26

@Caroline Im thinking if maybe better to make the blast inviting the community to participate in this very discussion and, of course, to read the files you are si kindly offering here. Instead of only sharing a link to a pdf, no? I feel is also important to give us the space to talk about this and maybe this way we can enable some space for that on this platform.

let me know your thoughts,

Caroline

Caroline July 26th, 2021 15:25

I need to think about wich educational thing we can send. Do you think the dusty consent project will resonate with people because it is at another burn and it takes in account burn culture? But the website is just... ugly

I do not understand your question? What is the copy?

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 26th, 2021 15:18

tagging @Cris who is usually very intersted in this topic ❤️

Caroline

Caroline July 26th, 2021 15:18

Sorry to hear about your experience as an adolescent. I see this is a very sensitive issue for you.

I definitly think it is sexism matter (or other oppression matter: by example the adult woman had power on you because older). Statistics don't lie.
I have some very good podcast about this very subject to recommand (but it's in french).

For now: as Kiez Burn is very close and as i would not have time to make any educational content and have long discussion about this, I can propose to not put the Sexism Free Night poster but only the noBed,Yes!Bed ones. What do you think?


I just want to improve things about consent in the little time I will spend here. I do not want to hurts anyone feeling - especially victims of aggressor feelings - and have deep and profound conversation when it is not the place and time

I really hope you like the other posters and if you want to talk about it irl, i would be happy to meet you at kiez burn

Veroca R. Sala

Veroca R. Sala July 26th, 2021 15:13

Awesome thanks!!!

Will prepare the blast for social media and telegram. Maybe we want to make a deadline to let us make "adjustments"to the copy if needed?

@Fabi 🦥 i have some bucks for this, how much do you think it will cost and how much will it cost to print the volunteers sheet in A3? so to have an idea if the budget is okay cause i have other extra expenses still. I prefer to know this beforehand . Thanks!

@Caroline Im thinking if maybe better to make the blast inviting the community to participate in this very discussion and, of course, to read the files you are si kindly offering here. Instead of only sharing a link to a pdf, no? I feel is also important to give us the space to talk about this and maybe this way we can enable some space for that on this platform.

let me know your thoughts,

CJ Yetman

CJ Yetman July 26th, 2021 15:09

I have also heard frequently (just this past weekend again too) that women often experience non-consensual interactions from other women.

CJ Yetman

CJ Yetman July 26th, 2021 15:08

We also had to deal with a "consent violation" type incident at the last KB that was fem->masc.

CJ Yetman

CJ Yetman July 26th, 2021 15:07

I've personally experienced several non-consensual interactions from women at burns and other similar events. I was also abused by an adult women as an adolescent. I might be a wild outlier, but I doubt it.

Caroline

Caroline July 26th, 2021 15:04

In a world where 95% of victims of sexual aggression are women or afab and 98% of aggressors are men... Yes we can say it is driven by sexism?


I agree with you that there IS some fem->* aggression but it is still driven by patriarcal shit: wanting to affirm yoursellf because that's the only way you can be heard (and that what's society is teaching to men and not to women), etc.

You're only talking about the Sexism Free Night ones right?

CJ Yetman

CJ Yetman July 26th, 2021 14:57

I'm a bit confused/concerned with the very strong association between sexism and consent violations suggested by these posters. While the word sexism may have some broader, generalized definition, it is usually focussed on men/masc->women/fem type discrimination. In my experience, consent violations frequently come and go in many different directions, masc->fem, fem->masc, fem->fem, masc->masc, so I wonder if it makes sense to suggest that consent violations are driven by sexism.