talk.kiezburn.org
Fri 14 Apr 2023 10:31AM

Moving Storage tactic proposal

VRS Veroca R. Sala Public Seen by 60

Update 26th April 2023

We take one step back to start over. After reading the comments on this thread we realised we first need to align on what is important to us, What are our priorities? What do we want for this mission to be?

I think this would be a more consensual starting point for us to plan the move, while I cannot guarantee I would take on the lead on coordinating efforts of a plan that I might not feel confident to carry myself, I'm more than happy to guide the discussion here so we get to an agreement on how we want this to be.

The discussion about the timing (when) can come after we decide "what" are we essentially doing: a sustainable move? an affordable move? an easy-to-carry move?) ... let's see...

👉👉👉 Rank your vote here 👈👈👈


The original beginning of the thread:

To help you understand this proposal better we created a video where we walk you through our analysis and thoughts so you can digest this information in a more engaging way than reading this long thread. Have your popcorn ready. (You can also just listen to it as a little podcast, no need to actually watch it!)

🎥 Storage Preso video

TLDR: camps moving their stuff to the new location's barn, Kiez Burn eV supporting the costs of van rentals and petrol to make it possible, a team of Barners led by Vero & Erin, coordinating and guiding the Kieze to accomplish the mission which will happen right after the Kiez Burn 2023.


Kiez Barn 2023

👽 Leads (Who are we?)

Vero: Volunteer coord (2019, 2021), Board member (2020-2022), Orga Korg team (2021) etc

Erin: Comms lead (2019-2021), Board member (2019-2020) Kieze coordination (2021) etc

🚀 Goal: In light of a potential location change. We take the lead to try to find a solution that would aim to be of the lowest effort and time consuming as possible in terms of Storage move. 

📚 References: Such a move has not ever been done at Kiez Burn, therefore we don't count on past experiences and lessons learned. 


Background: The current state of things

Kiez burn Plans to move site. We don't know 100% yet IF we move at all, nor are we sure WHERE exactly would that be. Still, we can prepare for a scenario, knowing that regardless of the exact new location, the stuff in the current storage will probably have to be transported somewhere else.

Three factors to consider

We highlight 3 factors to approach the move, considering being supportive of the affected parties and open to understanding what's required to complete this mission smoothly and within a reasonable budget.

  • What we recognise as an issue is that, Kiez Burn promotes, encourages and makes it easy for participants to build a camp, but it's not easy to undo it.

  • In this context, we want to acknowledge that community decisions such as moving sites do not reflect all and each individual’s consent. 

  • The Kiez Burn population and neighbourhoods are generally not financially abundant

Three key needs for the move

On a high level we understand that this mission will require the following: 

  • Human power 

  • Money for logistics

  • Excellent coordination of all camps and orga teams (or in other words, the whole burn including non-returning camps

Timeline allocation for the move

We find 3 possible options to carry out the move

  • Any time during the year

Many camps have their members scattered around Germany and Europe, we cant expect camps to come to Freiland exclusively for the move, we will likely need to take advantage of this years burn to execute the move right after the burn when people are usually exhausted of the whole burn experience. 

  • Right after KB23

It will be challenging to count on enough motivation and excitement to do this on strike. however we consider it possible. One potential issue with this option is that we are still unsure whether we count on the new location's storage available by the time KB23 ends. Nevertheless, we plan under the premise that this is possible.

  • Leading up to KB24

It's likely that we count on more excited souls to move stuff on build KB2024.

We don't know if Freiland would let us store our stuff one more year. Also, every year new camps are born and more storage units allocated, which will make the mission a bit bigger in 2024. Aditionally As it is too far in the timeline we cannot start planning now and, we Erin and Vero cannot commit now to coordinate this in 2024.

Preliminary conclusion 

We realised that this mission could be just as big as the burn itself since it requires the same key aspects for a burn to happen: humans, money, motivation and great coordination.

Type of solution to aid our weaknesses

With these insights, we wish to propose a solution adjusted to the idiosyncrasy of Kiez Burn’s population and not every and any other burn in the world. We want to find a solution to Kiez Burn's potential roadblocks so that we focus on finding ways to AID our weaknesses. These are our thoughts on that: 

✅ We are a community that counts on human power to make this happen.

✅ As an eV we don't face financial issues, but rather the opposite. The eV has got money.

❌ Our capacity to smoothly coordinate our efforts is limited, challenging and when not, very stressful, particularly at that point in the timeline (after the burn).

Moving models/tactics

▸ Centralized model: this could be anything that means having a centralised vehicle/s rental of some sort to move stuff to new camps. 

Human power: HIGH

Money: MEDIUM

Coordination: HIGH

▸ Decentralized model: this could be anything that means camps organising the move independently with their own vehicles

Human power: HIGH

Money: HIGH

Coordination: LOW 

Time factor

🚚 Driving time: camps will need to drive off to a new location that could be 1-2 hours away from Freiland. Here we analyse what would it look like on each model:

▸ Centralized model: on this model, we will need to find a way to transport humans to the new storage to help unload stuff, as big trucks have spots for max 3 people and also require special drivers. We wouldn't be able to unload 4 big trucks of stuff with 8 people,  We will need way more human power to unload it all, especially in the context of strike. This could mean people still driving back and forth to the location and spending time and petrol to gather enough human power or, a human transport plan with a bus.

▸ Decentralised model: camps can drive their van with their strike crew of 3 and take care of unloading their camp items just as they would do at Freliland’s storage. 

📦 Unloading time: camps will likely hope to get stuff unloaded as soon as possible to come home and decompress quickly. Here we analyse what would it look like on each model:

▸ Centralized model: we are counting on unpredictable waiting times for camps to unload their parcels off the trucks/containers, to let others reach their items. Trucks could contain many camps stuff in them. This is what we consider the major risk of failure. People get tired, later having to drive back to Berlin or spontaneously have to spend one more night at the new location. To avoid this we need to come up with very detailed and well-organised logistics which we are probably not experienced enough to accomplish successfully. 

▸ Decentralized model: No significant waiting times at the new location other than what could be expected at Freeland’s barn. 

👥 Coordination & planning time

▸ Centralized model: Months of planning at macro level 

▸ Decentralized model: 1-2 weeks planning at camp level 


Conclusion

With all context &  insights we believe that  the Decentralised model addresses Kiez burn’s weakness at that point in the timeline by enabling coordination at camp level, however, we need to attend to the 3 main factors we pointed out in the beginning:

  • It is easy at Kiez Burn to build a camp, but its not easy to undo it. 

  • Be understanding of the fact that the community’s decision will be affecting individuals who will have to put in time and effort to do the hard work.

  • Acknowledge and take into consideration the peculiarity of Kiez Burn’s population financial reality by offering financial support.

A high-level proposal

Kiez Burn eV could fill the gap of its lack of coordination capabilities at macro level at that point in the timeline (after the burn), outsource coordination tasks to camps by facilitating budget for the move.(understanding that money is a resource that the eV does not currently lack).

📙Concept

  • Kiez burn eV would support the costs of van/trailer rental and petrol to the Kieze

  • The Kieze will need to cover the costs related to BSR trash IF they need to dump stuff

  • Each Kiez case would be analysed individually, there will not be 1 budget fitting all.

💰 Light estimation of costs

  • Medium size camps could need about €500; bigger camps could need more, and smaller camps could need less or come together with other smaller camps to reduce costs

  • Current number of camps on storage: about 27 (tbc)

  • We also consider expenses of Production's move and BSR costs which can be higher than what we imagine.

    We think we would be sitting around €15.000 - €20.000+

Risks

We consider a big risk if Kiez Burn decides not to support financially this move:

  • We would be putting camps in a tough position where they need to sacrifice their own event's budget to accomplish the move, blocking them to do their magic at the event.

  • Also we risk having more no-returning camps or camps not showing up to collect their stuff which could mean ultimately, that production will still have to afford the financial costs AND put in the human effort to sort out what could be left on Freiland's barn.

  • Having committed community members burned out.


Moreover

With the purpose of further planning, we thought about a number of points we will have to address, these are questions we, leads, and participants in general, need answers from different areas, as well as points to consider moving forward:

  • Are we moving?

  • Is Kiez Burn eV gonna support financially to camps? If so, how are we gonna implement budget allocation, payments, and invoice tracking? 

  • How much budget will be allocated for production storage and potential BSR rounds to dump production trash?

  • Who will move production’s items to new barn?

  • Non-returning camps ( those who dont come to this year'S event but want to keep their stuff stored) who need to show up to remove stuff from Freiland barn. 

  • No Show camps (Those who dont come back nor take responsibility for their stuff) What is the plan if camps don't show up to move their stuff? How will Kiez Burn production prepare for these potential scenarios? 

  • Is the new storage secure? to which extent? How much will it cost? what is the accesibility? Do vans need to line up to unload? What is the condition of the new barn? ( rats, humidity etc)

  • How we make sure Freiland barn is properly empty and handed over on time and shape? We plan with BSR rounds? How do we make sure peolpe dont go store stuff at Freilan's barn after the burn ignoring that we are moving?

Disclaimer: 

Having given thought to different aspects of this area lead, we are committed to putting in time and effort to move forward with an approach we believe is feasible for us and everyone involved: The decentralised option with the financial support of Kiez Burn eV.

We are not willing to take the lead to organise a centralised moving approach that will require coordination at an incredibly large scale. We dont have the capacity nor the experience required for it.

We do of course, receive concerns and are open to hearing points of consideration.

Recruitment

IMPORTANT: We need more hands to coordinate the move, we call out to :

  • German speakers willing to help with contracts

  • Is anyone willing to take on the finances and Admin stuff?

  • Several Barners to support onsite at the barns on strike

Reach us out on discord Vero#5972 & ErinCourtney #1489 

AK

Alex Kaos Sun 16 Apr 2023 9:14AM

@Veroca R. Sala Renting a large 12-tonne truck for a day cost DW about 400€ + fuel. Realistic costs of 1 even larger vehicle for 2 days is more in the region of 2k€ (2-3 trips of KB production material). Additional smaller vehicles coud be ~400€ per unit (inc fuel), so with even as much as 10 of these, then we're still only at 6000€.

One Burn Night's worth of investment revenue could cover the costs imo. And we could be saving even more on venue rent due to the move, so it's a self-contained saving in any case.

EJ

Erin Jeavons-Fellows Mon 17 Apr 2023 12:46PM

@Alex Kaos

Hi Alex, can you clarify what you're saying?

Is it that you prefer the centralized coordination angle from a cost-saving perspective?

AK

Alex Kaos Tue 18 Apr 2023 3:36PM

@Erin Jeavons-Fellows no no, I was responding to Vero's comment about the cost for the move being 20k€.

The numbers I played with here was actually a hybrid model, which I consider the most likely solution, or just a more fitting term.

KB production material is ~20% of the entire storage, and so renting a large vehicle for that part makes sense. That will be 'centrally organised', whilst additional funding could be provided to support camps with the additional transport costs (by getting a larger sprinter and assisting with fuel).

I find the Centralised Vs decentralised discussion not really recognizing that all of our decisions are actions fall in a centralisation<->decentralisation scale, and so on reality we're choosing a point on the spectrum. But this is semantics, and not so important for the actual final action. X

VRS

Veroca R. Sala Tue 18 Apr 2023 7:32PM

Hi Alex, thanks for the clarification! yes, you are right is a bit of a hybrid in the end.

We didn't do a proper breakdown of costs but rather a rounded sum of how much could it be including production stuff transportation.

The total could be higher or lower, It also depends on production strike transport, what they do, what kind of truck they rent, if they need to pay a driver etc. My understanding is that this will not be under storage move scope.

We will be preparing the framework and putting a "system" in place and follow-up, but we will not be stepping into the strike and transport lead area. I guess we can only hope that we all get the best vehicle deals we can get.

I am to think that camps and production should think about renting a vehicle that allows them to move it all at once and not even think of doing several rounds because this will make the process a nightmare IMO, but in the end, this is a decision I cannot make...

C

Cris Wed 26 Apr 2023 2:12PM

Thank you both for this fantastically early proposal about a really challenging topic. And to everyone else for their input.

It's definitely not easy to have an idea on what to do, when there are so many questions open (storage available? new site where? new site has storage? and so on) But how I personally see it, and the thoughts I put about our storage, go in this direction:

- each camp: use this year to cut down storage as much as possible: throw away garbage, redistribute between camps, bring things to Berlin..

- If there's a new storage somewhere else by Strike'23, it would be very convenient to Strike there already. But this will only work if it's easy to do, otherwise ppl will be too tired to figure out new shit.

- I'm very much in favor of a centralized model, where we, particularly the eV, share costs and bigger vehicles to move everything. Easier, cheaper, more sustainable.

- Ideally, every camp that has storage should support with some people to move the shit around, accordingly with the m2/m3 they have.

- If there's no clear storage by Strike'23, using the energy towards Build'24 sounds more realistic to me than coordinating an extra action somewhen in the year. Also, as Alex says, it could be used to redistribute items in a moment, when everyone is happy to take them. Eg. if a camp doesn't come back/cannot support with ppl or money/don't care, their treasures get gifted away or brought to BSR.

- I would expect that some % of the storage would remain an orphan pile left alone. I guess this should be part of the whole strategy. Like, KORG takes care of it, and redistributes or brings to BSR?

In this case, I'd find it nice, if there's some accountability protocol (e.g. owners of the orphan pile get to chip in more moneyz, or such)

- This opportunity could potentially mean to rethink the way we do storage. I guess having a "barn" in Berlin is waaaaay more expensive, but easier to handle, use and move.

Or, in Nowhere, camps store their things in (truck) containers, that usually live somewhere, but get delivered to site for the event, and then pick up afterwards. We have other scale, but we could as well share containers between camps. Dunno.

The last option is to, as mentioned before, make Storage the new Effigy.

AK

Alex Kaos Thu 27 Apr 2023 7:06AM

@Cris Idea: how about we add an additional deposit on the camp storage costs for KB23?

This deposit is reclaimed upon successfull cleaning out of the camp equipment.

If it's in the region of 300€ that would be a significant contribution to the costs of throwing away/managing an orphan pile

JH

Jaina Hirai Thu 27 Apr 2023 7:14AM

@Alex Kaos i’m not Cris but i think this is a brilliant idea.

C

Cris Thu 27 Apr 2023 10:43AM

@Alex Kaos As a Cris, I also think that's a great idea.

Maybe even combining it somehow with the human power? We'll need mostly people to help move stuff, I guess. Maybe with a fee that you don't pay if you can send some of your camp members, or sth

VRS

Veroca R. Sala Fri 28 Apr 2023 9:53AM

@Cris thanks for passing by and reading this pile of words.

I agree with most of your points. I like the idea of camps getting rid of stuff this year preparing for potential next years move, and generally re-think the way we do storage. I only request clarification on this if you find the time:

- I'm very much in favor of a centralized model, where we, particularly the eV, share costs and bigger vehicles to move everything. Easier, cheaper, more sustainable.

Would you specify why think the centralised model would be easier?

From my understanding, you may be prioritising the financial and sustainable aspects of the centralized option over the ease of execution that the decentralized option offers. Im not saying its wrong to prioritise one over the other, I'm only trying to understand where people in this thread stand for and what is important for us in general.

I believe the centralised option only sounds simpler (putting all in a truck and moving it all together) but the practicalities of it can be more complex than the sole concept.

C

Cris Fri 28 Apr 2023 11:03AM

@Veroca R. Sala

SĂ­, I agree. It's simpler and complex at the same time.

I'm of the opinion we could try to centralize the move as much as possible. Having less vehicles, but bigger, and a team of people to move the stuff. It's definitely more sustainable and cheaper, and you need less drivers (potentially more qualified, but then maybe they came along with the vehicle. I also think organizing a big team maybe easier than several teams organize themselves independently. The human power may be also more efficient this way.

But I guess what at the end could happen, is an hybrid model: that some camps do their move independently, and others get together. Because of logistics, time availability, amount of stuff, and what is more convenient for each camp.

It could also happen, btw, that the new Site is so close, that we don't even have to abandon this storage at all (Freiland agreeing, ofc)

Was this more specific? :)

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