Moving Storage tactic proposal
Veroca R. Sala
Public
Seen by 60
Update 26th April 2023
We take one step back to start over. After reading the comments on this thread we realised we first need to align on what is important to us, What are our priorities? What do we want for this mission to be?
I think this would be a more consensual starting point for us to plan the move, while I cannot guarantee I would take on the lead on coordinating efforts of a plan that I might not feel confident to carry myself, I'm more than happy to guide the discussion here so we get to an agreement on how we want this to be.
The discussion about the timing (when) can come after we decide "what" are we essentially doing: a sustainable move? an affordable move? an easy-to-carry move?) ... let's see...
👉👉👉 Rank your vote here 👈👈👈
The original beginning of the thread:
To help you understand this proposal better we created a video where we walk you through our analysis and thoughts so you can digest this information in a more engaging way than reading this long thread. Have your popcorn ready. (You can also just listen to it as a little podcast, no need to actually watch it!)
🎥 Storage Preso video
TLDR: camps moving their stuff to the new location's barn, Kiez Burn eV supporting the costs of van rentals and petrol to make it possible, a team of Barners led by Vero & Erin, coordinating and guiding the Kieze to accomplish the mission which will happen right after the Kiez Burn 2023.
Kiez Barn 2023
👽 Leads (Who are we?)
Vero: Volunteer coord (2019, 2021), Board member (2020-2022), Orga Korg team (2021) etc
Erin: Comms lead (2019-2021), Board member (2019-2020) Kieze coordination (2021) etc
🚀 Goal: In light of a potential location change. We take the lead to try to find a solution that would aim to be of the lowest effort and time consuming as possible in terms of Storage move.
📚 References: Such a move has not ever been done at Kiez Burn, therefore we don't count on past experiences and lessons learned.
Background: The current state of things
Kiez burn Plans to move site. We don't know 100% yet IF we move at all, nor are we sure WHERE exactly would that be. Still, we can prepare for a scenario, knowing that regardless of the exact new location, the stuff in the current storage will probably have to be transported somewhere else.
Three factors to consider
We highlight 3 factors to approach the move, considering being supportive of the affected parties and open to understanding what's required to complete this mission smoothly and within a reasonable budget.
What we recognise as an issue is that, Kiez Burn promotes, encourages and makes it easy for participants to build a camp, but it's not easy to undo it.
In this context, we want to acknowledge that community decisions such as moving sites do not reflect all and each individual’s consent.
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The Kiez Burn population and neighbourhoods are generally not financially abundant
Three key needs for the move
On a high level we understand that this mission will require the following:
Human power
Money for logistics
Excellent coordination of all camps and orga teams (or in other words, the whole burn including non-returning camps
Timeline allocation for the move
We find 3 possible options to carry out the move
Any time during the year
Many camps have their members scattered around Germany and Europe, we cant expect camps to come to Freiland exclusively for the move, we will likely need to take advantage of this years burn to execute the move right after the burn when people are usually exhausted of the whole burn experience.
Right after KB23
It will be challenging to count on enough motivation and excitement to do this on strike. however we consider it possible. One potential issue with this option is that we are still unsure whether we count on the new location's storage available by the time KB23 ends. Nevertheless, we plan under the premise that this is possible.
Leading up to KB24
It's likely that we count on more excited souls to move stuff on build KB2024.
We don't know if Freiland would let us store our stuff one more year. Also, every year new camps are born and more storage units allocated, which will make the mission a bit bigger in 2024. Aditionally As it is too far in the timeline we cannot start planning now and, we Erin and Vero cannot commit now to coordinate this in 2024.
Preliminary conclusion
We realised that this mission could be just as big as the burn itself since it requires the same key aspects for a burn to happen: humans, money, motivation and great coordination.
Type of solution to aid our weaknesses
With these insights, we wish to propose a solution adjusted to the idiosyncrasy of Kiez Burn’s population and not every and any other burn in the world. We want to find a solution to Kiez Burn's potential roadblocks so that we focus on finding ways to AID our weaknesses. These are our thoughts on that:
✅ We are a community that counts on human power to make this happen.
✅ As an eV we don't face financial issues, but rather the opposite. The eV has got money.
❌ Our capacity to smoothly coordinate our efforts is limited, challenging and when not, very stressful, particularly at that point in the timeline (after the burn).
Moving models/tactics
▸ Centralized model: this could be anything that means having a centralised vehicle/s rental of some sort to move stuff to new camps.
Human power: HIGH
Money: MEDIUM
Coordination: HIGH
▸ Decentralized model: this could be anything that means camps organising the move independently with their own vehicles
Human power: HIGH
Money: HIGH
Coordination: LOW
Time factor
🚚 Driving time: camps will need to drive off to a new location that could be 1-2 hours away from Freiland. Here we analyse what would it look like on each model:
▸ Centralized model: on this model, we will need to find a way to transport humans to the new storage to help unload stuff, as big trucks have spots for max 3 people and also require special drivers. We wouldn't be able to unload 4 big trucks of stuff with 8 people, We will need way more human power to unload it all, especially in the context of strike. This could mean people still driving back and forth to the location and spending time and petrol to gather enough human power or, a human transport plan with a bus.
▸ Decentralised model: camps can drive their van with their strike crew of 3 and take care of unloading their camp items just as they would do at Freliland’s storage.
📦 Unloading time: camps will likely hope to get stuff unloaded as soon as possible to come home and decompress quickly. Here we analyse what would it look like on each model:
▸ Centralized model: we are counting on unpredictable waiting times for camps to unload their parcels off the trucks/containers, to let others reach their items. Trucks could contain many camps stuff in them. This is what we consider the major risk of failure. People get tired, later having to drive back to Berlin or spontaneously have to spend one more night at the new location. To avoid this we need to come up with very detailed and well-organised logistics which we are probably not experienced enough to accomplish successfully.
▸ Decentralized model: No significant waiting times at the new location other than what could be expected at Freeland’s barn.
👥 Coordination & planning time
▸ Centralized model: Months of planning at macro level
▸ Decentralized model: 1-2 weeks planning at camp level
Conclusion
With all context & insights we believe that the Decentralised model addresses Kiez burn’s weakness at that point in the timeline by enabling coordination at camp level, however, we need to attend to the 3 main factors we pointed out in the beginning:
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It is easy at Kiez Burn to build a camp, but its not easy to undo it.
Be understanding of the fact that the community’s decision will be affecting individuals who will have to put in time and effort to do the hard work.
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Acknowledge and take into consideration the peculiarity of Kiez Burn’s population financial reality by offering financial support.
A high-level proposal
Kiez Burn eV could fill the gap of its lack of coordination capabilities at macro level at that point in the timeline (after the burn), outsource coordination tasks to camps by facilitating budget for the move.(understanding that money is a resource that the eV does not currently lack).
📙Concept
Kiez burn eV would support the costs of van/trailer rental and petrol to the Kieze
The Kieze will need to cover the costs related to BSR trash IF they need to dump stuff
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Each Kiez case would be analysed individually, there will not be 1 budget fitting all.
💰 Light estimation of costs
Medium size camps could need about €500; bigger camps could need more, and smaller camps could need less or come together with other smaller camps to reduce costs
Current number of camps on storage: about 27 (tbc)
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We also consider expenses of Production's move and BSR costs which can be higher than what we imagine.
We think we would be sitting around €15.000 - €20.000+
Risks
We consider a big risk if Kiez Burn decides not to support financially this move:
We would be putting camps in a tough position where they need to sacrifice their own event's budget to accomplish the move, blocking them to do their magic at the event.
Also we risk having more no-returning camps or camps not showing up to collect their stuff which could mean ultimately, that production will still have to afford the financial costs AND put in the human effort to sort out what could be left on Freiland's barn.
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Having committed community members burned out.
Moreover
With the purpose of further planning, we thought about a number of points we will have to address, these are questions we, leads, and participants in general, need answers from different areas, as well as points to consider moving forward:
Are we moving?
Is Kiez Burn eV gonna support financially to camps? If so, how are we gonna implement budget allocation, payments, and invoice tracking?
How much budget will be allocated for production storage and potential BSR rounds to dump production trash?
Who will move production’s items to new barn?
Non-returning camps ( those who dont come to this year'S event but want to keep their stuff stored) who need to show up to remove stuff from Freiland barn.
No Show camps (Those who dont come back nor take responsibility for their stuff) What is the plan if camps don't show up to move their stuff? How will Kiez Burn production prepare for these potential scenarios?
Is the new storage secure? to which extent? How much will it cost? what is the accesibility? Do vans need to line up to unload? What is the condition of the new barn? ( rats, humidity etc)
How we make sure Freiland barn is properly empty and handed over on time and shape? We plan with BSR rounds? How do we make sure peolpe dont go store stuff at Freilan's barn after the burn ignoring that we are moving?
Disclaimer:
Having given thought to different aspects of this area lead, we are committed to putting in time and effort to move forward with an approach we believe is feasible for us and everyone involved: The decentralised option with the financial support of Kiez Burn eV.
We are not willing to take the lead to organise a centralised moving approach that will require coordination at an incredibly large scale. We dont have the capacity nor the experience required for it.
We do of course, receive concerns and are open to hearing points of consideration.
Recruitment
IMPORTANT: We need more hands to coordinate the move, we call out to :
German speakers willing to help with contracts
Is anyone willing to take on the finances and Admin stuff?
Several Barners to support onsite at the barns on strike
Reach us out on discord Vero#5972 & ErinCourtney #1489
Veroca R. Sala Fri 14 Apr 2023 11:50AM
Hey chiara!
Prep time
I think Prep time would be up to the camps as they will organise their rental options to move. It will have to be right after the burn we believe... Instead of bringing stuff back to freilands storage will need to be to potential new location storage.
People are scattered:
We cant expect camps to do this at any other moment in the year IMO. Members are scattered throughout Germany and Europe, the Burn is the moment when they come together and our best chance to move at once.
Securing storage before kB23
If we cannot secure new storage by end of Kiez Burn23 we might need to move right before next year's burn and Im not sure we can leave stuff at Freiland'S barn until then. Maybe the Liaison team can chip in here with some info. But it i would think that securing storage should be a strong point of negotiation with the new location.
About a centralised team
this is what we proposed with Erin. Production stuff will take care of their stuff ( first aid tents and general kitchen etc). It will be our goal as leads to try communicate with no. returning camps to avoid bad surprises. But there has to be a team (which would likely be general strike team) to sort out these production stuff. We storage leads are gonna coordinate all prior orga and comms.
Alex Kaos Fri 14 Apr 2023 11:43AM
Amazing work, excellent write up, and insightful thoughts on the process, thank you!
Some immediate thoughts that pop to mind;
Probability that the new site will be able to take storage by the time of strike of KB23 is incredibly low.
Organising such a big action during KB23 strike to me sounds like a mission destined to fail. Burnout is high with a travel distance of 15 minutes, let alone up to 4 hours (which is possible). It needs way more excitement in order to be run by volunteers.
Based on this framework, the two remaining timeframe options for a big move action are;
Sometime in-between burns
Leading up to KB24
You've already highlighted why option 1. couldn't work, so let's pull that out.
Option 2. is very feasible however. The high energy of build can be brought forward a week earlier, and the excitement and momentum of the burn can be utilized to fuel this action.
The biggest risk we face is the non-returning camps (NRCs), which is significant. However, I believe the cost of those un-retourning camps is negligible compared to the emotional and spiritual cost of trying to move 1000m³ of material anything up to 4 hours away during strike.
The proposed tactic here of the e.V. financially supporting camps for the move could be utilized to support new camps that take responsibility for assimilating the NRCs equipment. Offsetting the major complication of waiting a year.
Veroca R. Sala Fri 14 Apr 2023 12:15PM
Availability of storage at a NEW location after KB23
good point. I think we need to wait a bit for this and see what new location says while I also believe, as I said to Chiara, that this could be a strong point of negotiation. We will pay for storing things so I don't see why will this not be possible. But obviously, a great blocker for this proposal if they dont allow it.
Level of motivation on strike:
I see your point. I think for camps the mission is not much different than it is every year. It is more driving time.
They might need a couple of more strikers than in other years. We are aware that doing this on strike will be challenging 😱
Still we need to know if we can facilitate the only source of motivation KB eV can provide which is affording the costs.
Moving before build KB 2024
It is also a possibility! Is Freiland willing to store our stuff there for one more year? We didnt consider this point in the analysis because we don't want to make the move even bigger than it actually is. Every year we have more new camps, more storage units to allocate so the mission gets bigger every year.
Still is possible. In that case, we got to decide if we want to push it. Ill see how I add this point to the thread
NRC'S
We dont know if we will have any. I will personally reach out to all kieze leads. I wouldnt plan under the premise that there will be many of NRC. I guess this is a conversation we need to have with Kieze Leads asap and that will give as an idea of the volume of stuff we might need to take care of in some way.
walto Wed 19 Apr 2023 11:45AM
@Alex Kaos I agree with your analysis that moving during strike will be too challenging and it would make sense to purchase one extra year of storage.
@Veroca R. Sala maybe an idea would be to offer more financial compensation to those camps that move their stuff sooner after the burn and less financial compensation the earlier the storage gets moved to the new site storage.
Veroca R. Sala Fri 28 Apr 2023 11:02AM
@walto look who is here!!!! 😆 thanks for passing by!
I like the concept of not giving it all or nothing, but I wonder if this could put pressure on people or sort of indirectly apply a penalty for not being available at the time we suggest (whatever time that ends up being)... I could still bring this to the table in the conversation with the Kieze.
Veroca R. Sala Fri 14 Apr 2023 12:31PM
updated thread
Timeline allocation for the move
We find 3 possible options to carry out the move
😟 Any time during the year
Many camps have their members scattered around Germany and Europe, we cant expect camps to come to Freiland exclusively for the move, we will likely need to take advantage of this years burn to execute the move right after the burn when people are usually exhausted of the whole burn experience.
😐. Right after KB23
It will be challenging to count on enough motivation and excitement to do this on strike. however we consider it possible. One potential issue with this option is that we are still unsure whether we count on the new location's storage available by the time KB23 ends. Nevertheless, we plan under the premise that this is possible.
😐. Leading up to KB24
It's likely that we count on more excited souls to move stuff on build KB2024.
We don't know if Freiland would let us store our stuff one more year. Also, every year new camps are born and more storage units allocated, which will make the mission a bit bigger in 2024. Aditionally As it is too far in the timeline we cannot start planning now and, we Erin and Vero cannot commit now to coordinate this in 2024.
Olivia khan-Do Sat 15 Apr 2023 8:02AM
Hello both! Thank you for putting the time and effort into this proposal :)
I agree with Alex - during strike everyone is significantly more brain dead which leads to mistakes and problems not to mention lack of motivation. (There was talk about starting strike on Monday)
I do, however, think that during strike there will be a lot we Khan do to prep for the move. Asking the non-returning camps to clear out their shit for example. Could this move be a part of Spark for next year? We could make it a little burn. Bring our camping shit to set up in the new venue (or any venue just for the night) and the drivers and workers have food and shelter when they finish a long day hauling!
As your Strike Queen you can rely on my support for this mission. More-so as extra hands and a driver for the move itself. If this mission happens directly after the event I cannot guarantee so much energy.
We are picking a date for the No-Footprint circle meeting soon and we would love to have one or both of you there to connect in with us :)
Strike last year was actually very successful and this year it'll be more-so.
Erin Jeavons-Fellows Sat 15 Apr 2023 9:44AM
I agree everyone is brain-dead.
From where I sit though, having the budget allocated for a bigger van makes things far easier for organisation and coordination. Everything gets loaded into the van then 3 people drive and unpack on the other end. It seems to me that's far easier and less burn out than the 50 rounds in a small van 2km down the road, which definitely causes burn out. It doesn't seem to be so much extra effort for the members - its the same, they still pack down as usual. Its just an additional commitment for the drivers... who also could consider the drive on Monday after a solid sleep on a Sunday night. It doesn't all have to happen in 1 day.
I really do believe it needs to be at the end of KB 2023 or before KB2024. Doing it at any other point in the year will not have the manpower of all the camps and its members.
Veroca R. Sala Sat 15 Apr 2023 10:07AM
All valid concerns!!! thanks for taking the time to read. We are now considering a new alternative that we initially did not include in the proposal which is moving on Build KB 2024, totally possible too.
This:
bigger van makes things far easier for organisation and coordination. Everything gets loaded into the van then 3 people drive and unpack on the other end. It seems to me that's far easier and less burn out than the 50 rounds in a small van 2km down the road, which definitely causes burn out.
I agree with this, realistically speaking, when I imagine the two scenarios, the size of vehicles really makes the difference far more than the driving time. This is an important point to consider for the kieze.
Kieze's input:
I'm trying to coordinate a Kieze leads meeting on Discord, to come to an agreement on when will be best for them.
Proposal decision-making on tactics and budget
the timeline is a critical aspect of this proposal but I wish to make a point in regard to the proposal itself which is, whether we go for a decentralised or centralised approach and IF we can use money from the eV to do it. I think no matter when we move, it is super relevant for the Kieze to know if they will be supported financially.
Personal thoughts
I'm unsure how we want to make the decision of directing €20.000+ to this while we are so few people on Talk. We haven't put a deadline here because we just don't know what is a reasonable number of votes/input to make a decision that will impact the eV treasure so hard.
Alex Kaos Sun 16 Apr 2023 9:14AM
@Veroca R. Sala Renting a large 12-tonne truck for a day cost DW about 400€ + fuel. Realistic costs of 1 even larger vehicle for 2 days is more in the region of 2k€ (2-3 trips of KB production material). Additional smaller vehicles coud be ~400€ per unit (inc fuel), so with even as much as 10 of these, then we're still only at 6000€.
One Burn Night's worth of investment revenue could cover the costs imo. And we could be saving even more on venue rent due to the move, so it's a self-contained saving in any case.
Erin Jeavons-Fellows Mon 17 Apr 2023 12:46PM
@Alex Kaos
Hi Alex, can you clarify what you're saying?
Is it that you prefer the centralized coordination angle from a cost-saving perspective?
Alex Kaos Tue 18 Apr 2023 3:36PM
@Erin Jeavons-Fellows no no, I was responding to Vero's comment about the cost for the move being 20k€.
The numbers I played with here was actually a hybrid model, which I consider the most likely solution, or just a more fitting term.
KB production material is ~20% of the entire storage, and so renting a large vehicle for that part makes sense. That will be 'centrally organised', whilst additional funding could be provided to support camps with the additional transport costs (by getting a larger sprinter and assisting with fuel).
I find the Centralised Vs decentralised discussion not really recognizing that all of our decisions are actions fall in a centralisation<->decentralisation scale, and so on reality we're choosing a point on the spectrum. But this is semantics, and not so important for the actual final action. X
Veroca R. Sala Tue 18 Apr 2023 7:32PM
Hi Alex, thanks for the clarification! yes, you are right is a bit of a hybrid in the end.
We didn't do a proper breakdown of costs but rather a rounded sum of how much could it be including production stuff transportation.
The total could be higher or lower, It also depends on production strike transport, what they do, what kind of truck they rent, if they need to pay a driver etc. My understanding is that this will not be under storage move scope.
We will be preparing the framework and putting a "system" in place and follow-up, but we will not be stepping into the strike and transport lead area. I guess we can only hope that we all get the best vehicle deals we can get.
I am to think that camps and production should think about renting a vehicle that allows them to move it all at once and not even think of doing several rounds because this will make the process a nightmare IMO, but in the end, this is a decision I cannot make...
Cris Wed 26 Apr 2023 2:12PM
Thank you both for this fantastically early proposal about a really challenging topic. And to everyone else for their input.
It's definitely not easy to have an idea on what to do, when there are so many questions open (storage available? new site where? new site has storage? and so on) But how I personally see it, and the thoughts I put about our storage, go in this direction:
- each camp: use this year to cut down storage as much as possible: throw away garbage, redistribute between camps, bring things to Berlin..
- If there's a new storage somewhere else by Strike'23, it would be very convenient to Strike there already. But this will only work if it's easy to do, otherwise ppl will be too tired to figure out new shit.
- I'm very much in favor of a centralized model, where we, particularly the eV, share costs and bigger vehicles to move everything. Easier, cheaper, more sustainable.
- Ideally, every camp that has storage should support with some people to move the shit around, accordingly with the m2/m3 they have.
- If there's no clear storage by Strike'23, using the energy towards Build'24 sounds more realistic to me than coordinating an extra action somewhen in the year. Also, as Alex says, it could be used to redistribute items in a moment, when everyone is happy to take them. Eg. if a camp doesn't come back/cannot support with ppl or money/don't care, their treasures get gifted away or brought to BSR.
- I would expect that some % of the storage would remain an orphan pile left alone. I guess this should be part of the whole strategy. Like, KORG takes care of it, and redistributes or brings to BSR?
In this case, I'd find it nice, if there's some accountability protocol (e.g. owners of the orphan pile get to chip in more moneyz, or such)
- This opportunity could potentially mean to rethink the way we do storage. I guess having a "barn" in Berlin is waaaaay more expensive, but easier to handle, use and move.
Or, in Nowhere, camps store their things in (truck) containers, that usually live somewhere, but get delivered to site for the event, and then pick up afterwards. We have other scale, but we could as well share containers between camps. Dunno.
The last option is to, as mentioned before, make Storage the new Effigy.
Alex Kaos Thu 27 Apr 2023 7:06AM
@Cris Idea: how about we add an additional deposit on the camp storage costs for KB23?
This deposit is reclaimed upon successfull cleaning out of the camp equipment.
If it's in the region of 300€ that would be a significant contribution to the costs of throwing away/managing an orphan pile
Jaina Hirai Thu 27 Apr 2023 7:14AM
@Alex Kaos i’m not Cris but i think this is a brilliant idea.
Cris Thu 27 Apr 2023 10:43AM
@Alex Kaos As a Cris, I also think that's a great idea.
Maybe even combining it somehow with the human power? We'll need mostly people to help move stuff, I guess. Maybe with a fee that you don't pay if you can send some of your camp members, or sth
Veroca R. Sala Fri 28 Apr 2023 9:53AM
@Cris thanks for passing by and reading this pile of words.
I agree with most of your points. I like the idea of camps getting rid of stuff this year preparing for potential next years move, and generally re-think the way we do storage. I only request clarification on this if you find the time:
- I'm very much in favor of a centralized model, where we, particularly the eV, share costs and bigger vehicles to move everything. Easier, cheaper, more sustainable.
Would you specify why think the centralised model would be easier?
From my understanding, you may be prioritising the financial and sustainable aspects of the centralized option over the ease of execution that the decentralized option offers. Im not saying its wrong to prioritise one over the other, I'm only trying to understand where people in this thread stand for and what is important for us in general.
I believe the centralised option only sounds simpler (putting all in a truck and moving it all together) but the practicalities of it can be more complex than the sole concept.
Cris Fri 28 Apr 2023 11:03AM
@Veroca R. Sala
Sí, I agree. It's simpler and complex at the same time.
I'm of the opinion we could try to centralize the move as much as possible. Having less vehicles, but bigger, and a team of people to move the stuff. It's definitely more sustainable and cheaper, and you need less drivers (potentially more qualified, but then maybe they came along with the vehicle. I also think organizing a big team maybe easier than several teams organize themselves independently. The human power may be also more efficient this way.
But I guess what at the end could happen, is an hybrid model: that some camps do their move independently, and others get together. Because of logistics, time availability, amount of stuff, and what is more convenient for each camp.
It could also happen, btw, that the new Site is so close, that we don't even have to abandon this storage at all (Freiland agreeing, ofc)
Was this more specific? :)
Veroca R. Sala Fri 28 Apr 2023 12:03PM
@Cris But I guess what at the end could happen, is an hybrid model: that some camps do their move independently, and others get together. Because of logistics, time availability, amount of stuff, and what is more convenient for each camp.
this is why we think the coordination is easier and more accommodating at a camp level. Much more feasible but probably less sustainable.
One point to consider is that in the case of renting big trucks, we still need to think about how to bring those helping hands to help! Big trucks only have 3 seats incl the driver. Then we would need centralised human transport or helping hands going by car themselves which in the end, results in gas emissions too...footprint calculation is not my thing but it might be worth checking if the big trucks' centralised option is indeed more sustainable as we think it is.
Cris Wed 26 Apr 2023 2:13PM
Oh, and btw, not important anymore but I cannot see the video. I was curious, tho :)
Veroca R. Sala Fri 28 Apr 2023 10:44AM
This whole thread got me thinking that maybe, we should start from the very beginning and ask ourselves: What are our priorities? What do we want for this mission to be?
I think this would be a more consensual starting point for us to plan the move, while I cannot guarantee I would take on the lead on coordinating efforts of a plan that I might not feel confident to carry myself, I'm more than happy to guide the discussion here so we get to an agreement on how we want this to be.
The discussion about the timing (when) can come after we decide "what" are we essentially doing: a sustainable move? an affordable move? an easy-to-carry move?) ... let's see...
👉👉👉 Rank your vote here 👈👈👈
Note: updated the thread with this form
Erin Jeavons-Fellows Wed 17 May 2023 12:29PM
Hi Kieze Leads! Vero and I organised a meeting yesterday to discuss and gather information about how you guys will be affected when we move storage. We made lovely slides with pictures so you would understand the complexity of this task. I'm aware that only 17 kieze are in storage, but only 1 person showed. When just 1 showed, we felt disappointed as we are trying hard to make this really difficult process of potentially moving whole kiez burn to new site and considering the experience of you and all your camp members... which is a considerable population of the event. Vero and I are stopping work on this as we see this is not a priority for people right now. Please feel invited, if anyone feels like offering their insights in the form we created that few people have filled out. Maybe someone will read it at some point in future!
Jack Tue 29 Aug 2023 9:50PM
Just documenting here which service we used for a mini-clearout https://www.br-demmin.de/containerdienst/. In the end they were way too small so it was only production waste, house of plenty & promethean village.
356€ for both 7 m3 containers (before MwSt), actual cost for e.V.
423€ netto
the bulk of the cost was really delivery of the container, I would highly recommend to get at least one large one for the move
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can call up to a few days before and they are pretty reliant with dropoff & pickup (inform Eric though).
See discord thread https://discord.com/channels/930739383525572629/1136023846856691842
here our customer number and contact details
Chiara · Fri 14 Apr 2023 11:18AM
Thank you for drafting this, looks great! It’s gonna be a mission but we can do it💪
I have a few questions/concerns:
the site scouting team is moving forward with two good leads, but there’s still a lot to check and verify before we are sure one of them can be a good fit. How much time will camps need to organize the storage move? Do we need to know for sure that we will move in June to make the move happen in August, or is there a bit more slack?
In the very possible chance that we can only secure a new location after KB23 but before KB24, will we do another year at Freiland and move after KB24 strike, or would camps be open to moving storage before KB24 build? (I imagine this could have a different answer depending on the site we choose - currently one is 1 hour from Freiland, one is 3 hours)
I agree with the decentralised strategy to move storage with camps moving their stuff with the financial help of the e.V. But maybe we need a centralised team to take care of whatever is left after all camps take their stuff, see if there’s anything from no-show camps that KB might wanna keep and make sure everything else is disposed of.