I checked in with Matthew from Burnertickets.com and we have green light regarding the technicalities from their side 👍

No, I don't block or veto this. I see the need and value for this proposal.

Let's see how the whole corona thing will impact us. Some thoughts:

1. Why we implemented Dreams had several reasons. On a philosophical level, we want to connect more people, increase playadipity, increase the feeling of community. By connecting with many dreams, enabling more people to volunteer for other people's Dreams, and just generally "seeing it", you get a more connected community. For me the reasons regarding fixing a broken untransparent "art committee" or "democratizing funding" are only secondary, but probably more visible to others. I believe there could be ways to make art committees transparent with people buying into the process. I personally find the way Borderland did it last year very interesting, although probably very person-dependent. I expanded on some options in the thread from Benjamin on the art department

2. Big art: yes, a weakness last year, which we hope/believe we addressed with this iteration of the Dreams process. But who knows? We try and learn.

3. Buying extra dream tokens or even integration of direction donation on the Dreams platform, would be great to explore. Previous tech discussions indicated that this would be "too much work". But if someone is engaged enough to try it... In that sense, Alex' proposal could be interesting: where one could imagine partly people funding through ticket tokens, and partly funding through some sort of direct fundraising methods on the Dreams platform?

I believe the Dreams platform has potential beyond what it currently does. However, I do believe in it's philosophical core: uniting all Dreams into one platform, where people connect, high visibility on what is happening and a way to interact with Dreams before the event.

Thanks Henrik. What about the following: We change the text to be "this corresponds to about 10 tokens. The exact amount of tokens will be shown in the Dreams platform and correspond your monetary donation"

Regarding the connect between burner tickets and the Dreams platform, I would love it if someone else could support in checking if with  fyd@burnertickets.com if they can provide data on the money that was donated per ticket purchase through their API. I am excited about this proposal, but unfortunately do not see myself capable of liaising & implementing it technically, due to my own energy/time capacity.

Tnx for the advice. We explored this ethical side during the dream meeting as well. If you allow me, I would love to understand your thinking a bit better.

I personally feel your proposal to allow people to gift things to Kiezburn which can then be bought by others, is in fact commercializing things. People pay and get something in return. Or am I misunderstanding this?

To me, allowing people to buy more Dream tokens, is merely enabling them to gift more easily. They do not get anything in return, except for the pleasure of gifting, one of our principles. The same rules regarding "no more than 5 dream tokens per dream" is still valid for them.

We regularly have people collecting money to achieve their dreams through channels besides the Dreams Platform. Daisy last year made a fundraising campaign to collect money for the opening ceremony. If you support those kinds of actions, how is it different from enabling people to buy more Dream tokens?

The difference is that the democratic system behind dreams breaks once dream tokens can be bought. If everyone has the same number of tokes to hand out, the Art Grant distribution is a selection by the community through a democratic process. Selling tokens would skew the selection in favor of projects that are preferred by those who spend more money. The 5-token-per-dream-boundary limits that to some extend.

Thanks for the additional explanation.

I agree that this proposal indeed might slightly mess with the min/max democratic system, despite the 5-token-per-dream-boundary limit. Some Dreams might get pieces of the pie, they might have not otherwise gotten. On the other hand: the pie might also get substantially bigger because of this proposal.

Would you say, as one of the people also realizing (parts of) the Dreams process, your above ethical objections are a blocker for you towards this proposal? I do not want to push this proposal any further if you do not consent to or strongly dislike this idea being implemented.

Excellent news. That means that technically we have no complications with this proposal. No we just need to see if anyone will show their lack of consent... I guess...

I think an easy way to manage it is to create a unit that people can buy multiple of. eg I want to buy 15 extra dream tokens.

I am in 2 minds re the 5 limits. I see this as a vehicle for potential others that are very interested in a dream to make sure it makes it to the burn, maybe is there a way to connect these individuals to the dreamer to make it happen or does that also affect the mindset of dreams? I see us having more dream spend and more dreams at kiez burn if this is an option.
What is the key driving factor of dreams/dreams process? Is it to have more great art or is it to have a super controlled equal voting system on what comes? I like the democratic side but for me I put seeing more amazing art at the burn higher. It is a way for people who are more interested and able in a project to support them more.

Another thing I think that is worth exploring is how possible/what implications are there for people to be able to buy extra dream tokens after they have bought their ticket? Mainly because some people may not see any dreams they want to support further until after they have already got their ticket.

@Alexxx will take over this proposal, proposal description updated.