Kiez Placement

RP Randy Pence Public Seen by 265

The map in it's current state is final with the exception of: when everyone agrees to change a certain position. So if for example Süßkiez wants to change location with Just Being and they are both fine with that + Kinderkiez & other kieze agree and are fine with that + no issue for power, then yes, we can change locations. So feel free to take up those discussions here. From an overview POV, the map as it currently is right now, is the best possible solution we could find. But nobody is perfect... So if you have suggestions, feel free to put them here and everyone can chime in.

I need more space for camping?
It is impossible to draw on the map spots dedicated to little tents, that are spread out all over the site. Consider the spot you are given on the map as where your core activities take place. Tenting needs to be found person by person, tent by tent, either within that area, or just going around and spotting where one can put their tent that is not part of a Kiez's core area.

KBORG does not take responsibility for you causing a clash with your neighbors. Don't be an ass and go perimeter off hundreds of square meters for your tents that are outside of your core area.

we try to find freecamping areas that will not clash with camps.


Randy Pence Tue 24 Apr 2018 4:03PM

Hey y'all, some changes have been made as we decided to make a quiet viertel and shift some sound camps around as we lock in placement. Apologizes for the abruptness, but we hope that this will make for a better experience for everyone


Henrik 🤖 Tue 24 Apr 2018 4:12PM

Well, since Just Being is a quiet camp with chill music at "Zimmerlautstärke" we want like to stay where we originally planned to be. We made arrangements for workshops and building material that will only work there because of the platform, the fireplace (how perfect is a fireplace for a hippie camp?!) and the construction wagon. (Btw: I'm referring to the area where Süßkiez ist placed according to the update)


walto Tue 24 Apr 2018 4:15PM

Thanks for the response Henrik! Site planning is very hard and sometimes trade-offs need to be made. Unfortunately the location where Just Being wanted to be did not work any longer because sound needs to travel east. Orientating on Kinderkiez, we made the whole west side relatively quiet and more loud camps more to the east.

We are aware that this implies certain changes in the way you set up your camp, which is why we wanted to take this decision as early as possible, still before Burning Pig. The new spot of Just being is absolutely wonderful: completely flat, grassy, between trees, right next to some really cool Kieze!

Happy to work with you to make it work.


Anna Schwarz Wed 25 Apr 2018 1:32PM

I understand that Kieze are still registering and making it hard to decide about the best placement for everyone.
We have been planning for a while now and also got more concrete about the structures we are going to build. In fact Henrik spent a good amount of time looking into and getting materials to build something to cover that stage area for the workshops we want to bring & gift to the Burn. I guess you can imagine his frustration with the short term decision of re-placing us as a camp now. To be honest I have a hard time atm motivating my crew and make sure that stuff is gettting done. Decision like moving us around adds onto this so I guess you can also understand my frustration with that.
So I really want to understand the reasons behind this decision and if there is anything we could do to reverse it. Cause sound issues were there before. We are not an entirely silent camp and also thought about putting our tents somewhere where there is more space and just to have our structures in the dedicated area. So a bit of sound probably wouldn’t be too bad.
Henrik and the ones who were already informed and who have been to the site are not happy with the new location. I understand that it is quite impossible for you to make everyone happy but I also do understand that we are one of the bigger Kieze with more than 40 members and 30 more who would like the camp - so I can confidently say there is a major interest in the camp to exist and to be accessible for others wanting to join us.

Please let me know if there is any way I can support you with finding a better solution to this. Cause even though we are before Burning Pig - it is not even 2 months left and I do consider this change as a rather short term decision.


Randy Pence Wed 25 Apr 2018 2:10PM

For starters, what is wrong with the new location? It is flat, and the hilliness of the previous location had been an issue in terms of finding tent space for everyone. The new location removes any possibility of a neighboring kiez interrupting a workshop with some boom boom music and does not restrict in utilizing new materials or building a stage.

It was supposed to be considered a compliment that Just Being would anchor the new quieter viertel. As a returning kiez with well produced ideas, Area 51 thought that your presence in the new location would ensure that region would remain interesting with fewer kieze placed there. While it homogenizes the region, it could be possible for JB to use the entire section below the road and move Gingeridoo across the road.

Due to the challenges of the former quarry terrain, there will probably be a number of various kiez residents not camping directly with their kiez. A kiez expanding almost 100 percent in size is great for participation and inclusion, but must be seen as almost impossible to guarantee room as other kieze might have similar growth desires, but we cannot accommodate potential growth in every placement. Simply setting up structures and everyone camping elsewhere sounds less like a burn and more like a centralized festival like Fusion.

I hope this shows some of the reasoning and inspires confidence in the new location


walto Wed 25 Apr 2018 3:21PM

I totally understand you Anna. It is difficult to deal with changing requirements. However, we can commit to that location now. I also want to re-iterate what Randy just said: the new location is really really beautiful and could work perfectly for Just Being.

The main reason for the move of Just Being away from a more north-central position, has been that Kinderkiez needed to go really quiet, up in the north west corner because of sound concerns. The previous understanding was that sound needed to travel south-East, and now we know it needs to travel east. That caused Kinderkiez to no longer be able to be in the east. This in turn, caused some of the already placed Kieze in the west to no longer be a viable option there, and needed to be placed further away from Kinderkiez.

The only big, more quiet Kiez, is Just Being. We paired that up with 2 super interesting Kieze (one of them a kitchen kiez) to create an attractive chill atmosphere up in the north-west corner. We believe that will create a very interesting space during the day and early evening. It is the biggest flat space there is (the containers that were there on previous site visits will no longer be there) and would be 75% Just Being.

@bandit maybe you can add something here in terms of sound zones?


Alex Kaos Wed 25 Apr 2018 5:11PM

For what little it's worth, we had the most recent site visit, and everyone on the visit was in conclusion that JB's new location is one of the best spots on the Gelände (we would like to be there as well hehe, it's gorgeous).
Anyways, you can see for yourselves at burning pig ;) that's just two cents that might help calm some of the frustration (which I can relate to).


Alex Kaos Wed 25 Apr 2018 5:57PM

On a second point. The areas south of Flow Camp's position (south and south-West of the Eastern lake) is virtually uncampable, expect for the very top of the hill. We're already at a very tight squeeze in utilizing that space for our own camp (we have the only flat area in the entire field, and need every centimeter). That's just a heads up, don't place any kieze or freecamping there until you can personally review the location at burning pig. It could end up getting messier.

Again, it's just a heads up ;)


Sweet Like Candy Thu 26 Apr 2018 7:51AM

Hi guys, SüßKiez here, discovering our new location ;) To be honest we did not realise locations for bigger camps were still in review until now - and were already full power on structure explorations. The new site is quite different than what we expected after our last conversation with Randy. Could you please tell us, is the new placement now final, and if yes, WHO could give us more details about it so that we can start turning the structure ship around BEFORE Burning Pig already? THanks and hugZ. Alina. p.s. I must admit I am finding that camp communications flow a little less well this year - I do not feel like we are fully aware of what is happening behind the scenes. Would be nice to change that with a weekly email maybe? I know that's extra work for your mighty shoulders, but is absolutely essential to ensure all camp leads are in the loop. Hope this is OK to voice here)


walto Thu 26 Apr 2018 5:09PM

@randypence let me know when you have an idea where to place the basic bitches, so I can add power to the map for them too. Tnx!

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