Anyone who is interested in art grants, answer here. Together we can shape the Kiez Burn art grants :)

With the extremely limited amount of time i have I could maybe support an art grant lead by being a dream guide. I am useless at graphic design and spreadsheets but good at comms, care about fairness and enjoy helping people.

We could use some proper documentation on how to use dreams

I want to contribute at least to the discussion and planning, and give insight how we did it last year.

I was part of dream guiding at Borderland last year. Am interested to do that again, and maybe take a more active role with helping to organise art grants.

that sounds amazing! @bobschi are you free the last weekend of februari (23/02)?

Looks like I'll be on a workshop weekend, learning about intimacy. So no, I'd rather not squeeze anything in; either before that, or after that. But I'm based in Vienna anyway, so I'll happily donate time and support from afar, but I don't see myself going to Berlin in February. I can Skype/Hangout in, but that's always a bit of a PITA.

the link http://dreams.kiezburn.org/ doesn´t work @vomanderenland

thanks for the notice! it's up and running again

@bobschi maybe we could connect and have a chat; I lead our AG last year, and there were some insights I wanted to pass on; would really love to hear your BL experience. Are you on FB or Telegram?

Both. Say hi! https://www.facebook.com/lebobsch & https://t.me/bobschi

For documentation purposes, topics I see need covering in a day workshop on dreams for Kiez burn:
- agree on the needed tech requirements for the dreams platform for 2019 and path towards it
- how would finance link in
- how will we ask all the questions we have asked art grants last year within this dreams setting
- what kind of grants do we allow? (food, drinks,...)
- how do we prioritize or flag infrastructure dreams
- how do we correct for the bias towards small art grants and enable bigger art grants to collect the needed money
- how many votes does anyone get and how can ppl distribute their votes
- what is the supportive organizational framework (dream guides)
- what is the timeline

To work out the 2019 vision on these and implement it, we need to meet with the main ppl involved with these topics

Allright, looks like it'll be the Sunday 24th. Jan will probably host this instance =)

@remyschneider wrote me and mentioned that my input could be helpful.
And I would love to attend. But I am out of town that weekend. I am currently try to play with my schedule so I arrive in Berlin during the 24th and could maybe drop in the meeting once I arrived. Other options are me joining during relevant discussion parts via skype.

I will, however, compile a text / list with things I would give as input regarding the Finanzamt-situation and how we can design the question on the dreams platform so that there is more 'art' that is recognized by the finanzamt as such.

I was unable to put my flight on another day. So I will make sure to put in my suggestions & information here.

Would have loved to join but I am also not able to attend on this weekend..
I helped a little the AG team last year, and one take away that I think should be discussed is the scope of art grants= if not only art installation, what is eligible?To which extend a camp can get grants? How to deal with art inside camps? How does this fit with the new decentralized org, and the fact that eg.welfare could be on the platform ? In that case, is welfare a sort of 'camp' that is funded via the platform?

Just wanted to share some thoughts about this . Maybe you could use them during your session on Sunday .

Just got back from travels, just to quickly ping: It will happen this Sunday. Wonna still join, PM me, or register. And also: we might be in need of a small space with a whiteboard (the more likely it is as a backdrop of "the office", the better) that we can use this Sunday, let us know.

Glad to have you back in Berlin <3 Missed you guys!

This is what we'll do this Sunday: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zm_-lySI595XQJPAWlBFEfSpp1443U87udBkT7AujIQ/edit#gid=0

everyone that still might want to join, please do contact me. Open for all!

hey i could help a bit with the front end of the online voting systems, making a few adjustments to the existing borderlands design and adding some simple visual cues and graphs that can solve some serious logistical problems such as: lets make sure the porta potties arent buried on page 5 under art grant proposals, lets make it visible when certain subsections (such as power, or food) are underfunded. Essentially using visual cues to incentivize people vote for a balanced budget rather than dumping everything into your favorite arts project. if thats something yall want. I would need a back end dev to help implement it onto the site safely but all my ideas could be implemented with simple css.

There is a public group called "robot ministery" where we discuss the tech parts, and there is a dreams group where we discuss the other details. We'll discuss the details there, looking forward to further discussing it there with you!

Here is a little copy- and - paste with minimal edit from over at the ambassador thread. Please, even if you have read it, read it again as I have made some minor changes and updates.
If you want me to be available for a call-in or skype in at any point, lmk. I think this is rather comprehensive and showing my current state of knowledge. Anyhow, I would enjoy to receive feedback and further questions. I will miss being with you guys tomorrow. I really wish I could join because whenever I am around you I feel a bit more inspired ;) .


One thing beforehand: I got asked to provide Feedback to Club Commission. They have been asking if we used any of the ressources (Steuerberater, Anwalt) they mentioned and wether they have been of help. I would like to be able to give them this feedback next time I approach them with questions. If somebody could reply to this thread or the ambassador thread with feedback, I'd very much appreciate that

• The source of information on all these topics is either CC or the variety of event & festival-people I asked in informal settings. I approached them with the same question every time: "What is your experience or your knowledge regarding the MwSt question on event tickets? Do you have any rulings or regulations or experiences regarding that? Did you ever try to use the 7%? Have you knowledge how other events handle this?“

• General consensus is that there is no single easy answer. In the end it depends on wether or not our event is classified as 'Konzert', 'Konzertähnlich' and the age old question: 'Is this art? And is it art enough so the german state grants the right to not pay 19% but 7% MwSt.'
  And this classification is, in the end, depending on the Finanzamt-Person who is responsible for our case.

• It was very hard to get a clear answer from anybody. But it seems that most events do not bother to risk the trouble with the Finanzamt. To defend the case in front of them and the court is too much for a lot of collectives to bother with. Some people also bypass the whole topic by having their parties be a private and not-completly-registered-and-official thing (you know the drill) and thereby they're not selling any official tickets. Some collectives are somehow involved in a gemeinnütziger verein.So this information is not too helpful....

• If wer were to try it, everybody advocated for saving up enough money to be able to pay the 19% even if we tried to justify a 7% MwSt for our event. I seriously do not know about the legal implications here. I don't know if the MwSt included in the ticket needs to be mentioned on the ticket. I tried to do a quick research, looking at events around Berlin, but the research didn’t bring up meaningful results. I do not have access to printed tickets which might show a MwSt indication and online the tickets are not listed when they’re not currently on sale. Therefore: All those are detail questions for a lawyer or steuerberater. Having a financial parachute is advised in any case.

• There are several arguments on our side which might make it easier to defend the 7%. Among them are facts like: 'We do not make any money by selling anything on side. It is therefore easy to argue that the purpose of the event is in fact art centered and not centered on having art and music as a backdrop to sell drinks or food or other goods." or „People who get paid to perform their art on other events contribute a meaningful part of the experience at our event. Them not receiving classic ‚pay‘ is not an argument against their contribution being just as meaningful a piece of art.“

• Artgrants that are written and (formally) executed by professional artists are helpful. If the finanzamt asks one can point to a piece or act (?) of art - an installation, maybe a performance?(Maybe the rules are different for each of those things. I read conflicting information on the topic of varieté shows and them selling tickets for 7% and 19% & got different court rulings),
  However. Art (of any kind) theoretically speaks for us being an art event. It could be mentioned in the program (if something like that does happen) and if the finanzamt person googles it & it is a name of an artist who is to be represented as an artist at their online presentations... well that's speaking for us. Same goes for people who work with light and mapping and do live music. Mind you: There have also been conflicting court rulings wether the performance of a DJ counts as 'concert like' and 'art. Berlin judges seemed to be okay with that definition. Other judges not so much.

• Adding the procedure of having an official 'Auslagerückerstattungsformular‘- piece of paper along with the receipts as part of refund processing is the formally correct way and safest way to go. It should sound something like: I [Artist Z] request the refund of XY € for Artproject / Installation / Performance on saturday 5 pm ...
  Everybody who receives refunds should fill out such a formal paper, but especially the ones handed in by semiprofessional or professional artists are gold when talking to the Finanzamt. The paper should be set up by a professional and it should be made very clear that this piece of paper is not optional.

• Stressing and underlining the art factor in online representation and communication (f.e. on the website. She mentioned advertising, too, but that's not applicable for us obviously) beforehand is crucial as well.

@oliviaehe Waldo and I want to check with you about the questions we will ask the Dreamers to fill out when they submit their Dream. We know you have some valuable insights to share with us. We want to have the Dreams platform up and running by approx March 10th...are you willing and free for a chat soon?

answered in the dreams group: https://talk.kiezburn.org/d/b8pGPwua/dreams-questionaire