talk.kiezburn.org

How to organize art grants?

W walto Public Seen by 87

*Talk discussions are moved to https://talk.kiezburn.org/g/SAqXnukc/dreams *

We have set up a Kiez Burn version of the dreams platform here: http://dreams.kiezburn.org/ which @henrik is hosting

This is based on the amazing work from our brothers from Borderland & Midburn who built it out: http://dreams.theborderland.se/

The dreams platform is a powerful way to engage the wider community with the artists and art on the event. In addition, it allows for an easier application process and a more transparent budget distribution system. Our goal for this platform would not be limited to art grants, but can also function as a budget decision tool for more structural topics, such as gate or welfare.

How we build out this platform with questions such as:
- how many votes does a person with a ticket get?
- can someone give all their votes to their own project?
- As a lead of for example water or power, how do I know which projects need water/power and how do I get in touch with the artists?
- Borderland uses something that is called "dream guides", who are people who help projects and artists through the dreams system

Interesting links
- Borderland dreams discussions: https://talk.theborderland.se/g/iHdbkqPD/dreams
- The Kiez Burn tech squad lives here: https://talk.kiezburn.org/d/svZtxNSX/tools

W

walto Sat 19 Jan 2019 2:51PM

Anyone who is interested in art grants, answer here. Together we can shape the Kiez Burn art grants :)

JH

Jaina Hirai Sat 19 Jan 2019 2:59PM

With the extremely limited amount of time i have I could maybe support an art grant lead by being a dream guide. I am useless at graphic design and spreadsheets but good at comms, care about fairness and enjoy helping people.

H

Henrik 馃 Wed 6 Feb 2019 4:53PM

We could use some proper documentation on how to use dreams

OE

Olivia Ehe Mon 21 Jan 2019 10:52PM

I want to contribute at least to the discussion and planning, and give insight how we did it last year.

B

Bobschi Wed 23 Jan 2019 9:14AM

I was part of dream guiding at Borderland last year. Am interested to do that again, and maybe take a more active role with helping to organise art grants.

W

walto Fri 25 Jan 2019 11:26AM

that sounds amazing! @bobschi are you free the last weekend of februari (23/02)?

B

Bobschi Wed 30 Jan 2019 12:47PM

Looks like I'll be on a workshop weekend, learning about intimacy. So no, I'd rather not squeeze anything in; either before that, or after that. But I'm based in Vienna anyway, so I'll happily donate time and support from afar, but I don't see myself going to Berlin in February. I can Skype/Hangout in, but that's always a bit of a PITA.

A

Annette Wed 23 Jan 2019 4:37PM

the link http://dreams.kiezburn.org/ doesn麓t work @vomanderenland

H

Henrik 馃 Wed 23 Jan 2019 4:45PM

thanks for the notice! it's up and running again

OE

Olivia Ehe Fri 25 Jan 2019 5:45PM

@bobschi maybe we could connect and have a chat; I lead our AG last year, and there were some insights I wanted to pass on; would really love to hear your BL experience. Are you on FB or Telegram?

B

Bobschi Wed 30 Jan 2019 12:49PM

W

walto Sat 26 Jan 2019 6:31PM

For documentation purposes, topics I see need covering in a day workshop on dreams for Kiez burn:
- agree on the needed tech requirements for the dreams platform for 2019 and path towards it
- how would finance link in
- how will we ask all the questions we have asked art grants last year within this dreams setting
- what kind of grants do we allow? (food, drinks,...)
- how do we prioritize or flag infrastructure dreams
- how do we correct for the bias towards small art grants and enable bigger art grants to collect the needed money
- how many votes does anyone get and how can ppl distribute their votes
- what is the supportive organizational framework (dream guides)
- what is the timeline

To work out the 2019 vision on these and implement it, we need to meet with the main ppl involved with these topics

W

Poll Created Thu 31 Jan 2019 10:17PM

Dreams platform design & development brainstorming Closed Tue 19 Feb 2019 10:00PM

Outcome
by walto Wed 20 Feb 2019 10:17PM

We will meet this Sunday to flesh out all the details, timeline and work on the next concrete steps together.

We would like to invite you to the Dreams platform design & development brainstorming on Saturday 23 (or Sunday 24) February (location to be determined). Spots are limited, so please sign up soon (link at the bottom)

What is the dreams platform?

It is a platform where Kiez Burners who want to contribute to the event with an art or infrastructure project could apply with the community for a grant (aka 鈥渕oney鈥). On the dreams platform, everyone can post a picture, title, and description of their proposal, while answering some key questions. Ticket holders subsequently can vote which dreams they want to give money to with their ticket money. Our goal for this platform would not be limited to art grants, but also to function as a budget decision tool for more structural topics, such as gate, welfare or rangers.

Examples from Borderland:
- Big art project: http://dreams.theborderland.se/dreams/288
- Small art project: http://dreams.theborderland.se/dreams/392
- Small infrastructure project: http://dreams.theborderland.se/dreams/393
- Big infrastructure project (see Kiez Burn rangers/wonderers): http://dreams.theborderland.se/dreams/426
- A Midburn dream: https://dreams.midburn.org/dreams/373

why do we do this?

  • Because dreams are fun
  • The dreams platform is a powerful way to engage the wider community with the artists and art on the event.
  • Empowering the community to decide on where ticket revenue goes to.
  • Increase transparency in art grant distribution
  • Unburdening central organization from decision making to focus on enabling the community to self-organize.

who should attend this design&development brainstorming

Of course, we will all vote on dreams, but who gets to shape and form this new platform?

Planning:

  • Developers who want to contribute
  • Dreamers with ambitions for an art or infrastructure grant
  • everyone who has some experience in art and infrastructure grants would be super welcome to help shape how Kiez Burn will shape the dreams platform.
  • Anyone who does not have experience but would love to play a more active role this year in art & infrastructure grants (Dream guides)
  • Anyone who has a role in the central organization that would interact with art grants (power, finances, Kieze,...)

Dream guidance

after we roll out the dreams platform, the adventure has just started. We need people to help the dreamers find their way on the platform, in our organization, answering many different questions. You could help artists connect with power, water or site planning, and co-create the event by enabling everyone to find their unique spot at the burn.

Key questions we want to address on Saturday 23 or Sunday 24 February (10:00-17:00)

  • agree on the needed tech requirements for the dreams platform for 2019 and path towards it
  • how would finance link in
  • how will we ask all the questions we have asked art grants last year within this dreams setting
  • what kind of grants do we allow? (food, drinks,...)
  • how do we prioritize or flag infrastructure dreams
  • how do we correct for the bias towards small art grants and enable bigger art grants to collect the needed money
  • how many votes does anyone get and how can ppl distribute their votes (can someone give all their votes to their own project?). How much money is one vote? (if at all)
  • what is the supportive organizational framework (dream guides)
  • what is the timeline (until when can ppl submit dreams, until when is voting, when do we let artists know they are funded)
  • how do we check if the project actually happened?
  • As a lead of for example water or power, how do I know which projects need water/power and how do I get in touch with the artists?
  • Borderland uses something that is called "dream guides", who are people who help projects and artists through the dreams system. What do we do?

Sign up for the dreams platform design & development brainstorming

*Please sign up here: https://goo.gl/forms/dkPQmdRxIMkdNjlx1 *

Interesting links

Results

Results Option Voters
Yes 4 JH AK W H
No 0  
Undecided 82 DU KK SE N L C JT T S B RH J CD AN J NP JP H DL K

4 of 86 people have voted (4%)

W

walto
Yes
Thu 31 Jan 2019 10:17PM

looking forward!

JH

Jaina Hirai
Yes
Fri 8 Feb 2019 9:28AM

Because of my work schedule I can only attend if the day is Sunday.

W

walto Fri 8 Feb 2019 9:07AM

Allright, looks like it'll be the Sunday 24th. Jan will probably host this instance =)

S

Saskia Fri 8 Feb 2019 10:15AM

@remyschneider wrote me and mentioned that my input could be helpful.
And I would love to attend. But I am out of town that weekend. I am currently try to play with my schedule so I arrive in Berlin during the 24th and could maybe drop in the meeting once I arrived. Other options are me joining during relevant discussion parts via skype.

I will, however, compile a text / list with things I would give as input regarding the Finanzamt-situation and how we can design the question on the dreams platform so that there is more 'art' that is recognized by the finanzamt as such.

S

Saskia Tue 19 Feb 2019 9:59AM

I was unable to put my flight on another day. So I will make sure to put in my suggestions & information here.

Q

Quentin Thu 14 Feb 2019 10:16PM

Would have loved to join but I am also not able to attend on this weekend..
I helped a little the AG team last year, and one take away that I think should be discussed is the scope of art grants= if not only art installation, what is eligible?To which extend a camp can get grants? How to deal with art inside camps? How does this fit with the new decentralized org, and the fact that eg.welfare could be on the platform ? In that case, is welfare a sort of 'camp' that is funded via the platform?

Just wanted to share some thoughts about this . Maybe you could use them during your session on Sunday .

W

walto Tue 19 Feb 2019 10:05PM

Just got back from travels, just to quickly ping: It will happen this Sunday. Wonna still join, PM me, or register. And also: we might be in need of a small space with a whiteboard (the more likely it is as a backdrop of "the office", the better) that we can use this Sunday, let us know.

S

Saskia Wed 20 Feb 2019 1:07PM

Glad to have you back in Berlin <3 Missed you guys!

W

walto Thu 21 Feb 2019 10:19PM

This is what we'll do this Sunday: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zm_-lySI595XQJPAWlBFEfSpp1443U87udBkT7AujIQ/edit#gid=0

everyone that still might want to join, please do contact me. Open for all!

JW

Jessy W Fri 1 Mar 2019 12:31PM

hey i could help a bit with the front end of the online voting systems, making a few adjustments to the existing borderlands design and adding some simple visual cues and graphs that can solve some serious logistical problems such as: lets make sure the porta potties arent buried on page 5 under art grant proposals, lets make it visible when certain subsections (such as power, or food) are underfunded. Essentially using visual cues to incentivize people vote for a balanced budget rather than dumping everything into your favorite arts project. if thats something yall want. I would need a back end dev to help implement it onto the site safely but all my ideas could be implemented with simple css.

W

walto Tue 5 Mar 2019 12:28PM

There is a public group called "robot ministery" where we discuss the tech parts, and there is a dreams group where we discuss the other details. We'll discuss the details there, looking forward to further discussing it there with you!

S

Saskia Sun 24 Feb 2019 2:28AM

Here is a little copy- and - paste with minimal edit from over at the ambassador thread. Please, even if you have read it, read it again as I have made some minor changes and updates.
If you want me to be available for a call-in or skype in at any point, lmk. I think this is rather comprehensive and showing my current state of knowledge. Anyhow, I would enjoy to receive feedback and further questions. I will miss being with you guys tomorrow. I really wish I could join because whenever I am around you I feel a bit more inspired ;) .

One thing beforehand: I got asked to provide Feedback to Club Commission. They have been asking if we used any of the ressources (Steuerberater, Anwalt) they mentioned and wether they have been of help. I would like to be able to give them this feedback next time I approach them with questions. If somebody could reply to this thread or the ambassador thread with feedback, I'd very much appreciate that

  • The source of information on all these topics is either CC or the variety of event & festival-people I asked in informal settings. I approached them with the same question every time: "What is your experience or your knowledge regarding the MwSt question on event tickets? Do you have any rulings or regulations or experiences regarding that? Did you ever try to use the 7%? Have you knowledge how other events handle this?鈥

  • General consensus is that there is no single easy answer. In the end it depends on wether or not our event is classified as 'Konzert', 'Konzert盲hnlich' and the age old question: 'Is this art? And is it art enough so the german state grants the right to not pay 19% but 7% MwSt.'
    And this classification is, in the end, depending on the Finanzamt-Person who is responsible for our case.

  • It was very hard to get a clear answer from anybody. But it seems that most events do not bother to risk the trouble with the Finanzamt. To defend the case in front of them and the court is too much for a lot of collectives to bother with. Some people also bypass the whole topic by having their parties be a private and not-completly-registered-and-official thing (you know the drill) and thereby they're not selling any official tickets. Some collectives are somehow involved in a gemeinn眉tziger verein.So this information is not too helpful....

  • If wer were to try it, everybody advocated for saving up enough money to be able to pay the 19% even if we tried to justify a 7% MwSt for our event. I seriously do not know about the legal implications here. I don't know if the MwSt included in the ticket needs to be mentioned on the ticket. I tried to do a quick research, looking at events around Berlin, but the research didn鈥檛 bring up meaningful results. I do not have access to printed tickets which might show a MwSt indication and online the tickets are not listed when they鈥檙e not currently on sale. Therefore: All those are detail questions for a lawyer or steuerberater. Having a financial parachute is advised in any case.

  • There are several arguments on our side which might make it easier to defend the 7%. Among them are facts like: 'We do not make any money by selling anything on side. It is therefore easy to argue that the purpose of the event is in fact art centered and not centered on having art and music as a backdrop to sell drinks or food or other goods." or 鈥濸eople who get paid to perform their art on other events contribute a meaningful part of the experience at our event. Them not receiving classic 鈥歱ay鈥 is not an argument against their contribution being just as meaningful a piece of art.鈥

  • Artgrants that are written and (formally) executed by professional artists are helpful. If the finanzamt asks one can point to a piece or act (?) of art - an installation, maybe a performance?(Maybe the rules are different for each of those things. I read conflicting information on the topic of variet茅 shows and them selling tickets for 7% and 19% & got different court rulings),
    However. Art (of any kind) theoretically speaks for us being an art event. It could be mentioned in the program (if something like that does happen) and if the finanzamt person googles it & it is a name of an artist who is to be represented as an artist at their online presentations... well that's speaking for us. Same goes for people who work with light and mapping and do live music. Mind you: There have also been conflicting court rulings wether the performance of a DJ counts as 'concert like' and 'art. Berlin judges seemed to be okay with that definition. Other judges not so much.

  • Adding the procedure of having an official 'Auslager眉ckerstattungsformular鈥- piece of paper along with the receipts as part of refund processing is the formally correct way and safest way to go. It should sound something like: I [Artist Z] request the refund of XY 鈧 for Artproject / Installation / Performance on saturday 5 pm ...
    Everybody who receives refunds should fill out such a formal paper, but especially the ones handed in by semiprofessional or professional artists are gold when talking to the Finanzamt. The paper should be set up by a professional and it should be made very clear that this piece of paper is not optional.

  • Stressing and underlining the art factor in online representation and communication (f.e. on the website. She mentioned advertising, too, but that's not applicable for us obviously) beforehand is crucial as well.

JH

Jaina Hirai Tue 26 Feb 2019 10:35PM

@oliviaehe Waldo and I want to check with you about the questions we will ask the Dreamers to fill out when they submit their Dream. We know you have some valuable insights to share with us. We want to have the Dreams platform up and running by approx March 10th...are you willing and free for a chat soon?

W

walto Mon 4 Mar 2019 9:20PM