Fri 31 Jan 2020 12:26PM

Radical Tickets: Request for changes

CM Callum Macdonald Public Seen by 155

The original thread was getting way too long to keep track. This thread is to track any requested changes. Here's a short summary of the ticket sale:

  • Sale launches officially 14 Feb in tandem with the location decision

    • Soft launch earlier

  • Each participant can specify their own price from €1

  • The finance lead will specify a minimum viable budget for the event

  • Once the location decision is made, we'll set how many tickets we can sell in this process

  • All or nothing crowdfunding mechanic

  • Click here for the demo of the checkout process

If you wish to request any changes to the process, please share them below. The idea is to focus on specific and actionable requests.


Keegan Tue 18 Feb 2020 3:56AM

Hi, so talking to Callum and the halt on decisions we have decided to park this and possibly look at it for 2021.


Keegan Tue 11 Feb 2020 8:38PM

Also now we are further on without comms going out it might make sense to push the dates back a week or 2. The comms lead up is key I beleive


Keegan Sun 9 Feb 2020 10:34PM

@Andrea Paracucchi I am not sure if I can reply to your vote specifically, hopefully, this year we will see a lot higher 100% of non-virgins. Now, this is the 4th? year that it's on and there is not a huge increase in ticket numbers and sounds like a lot of people that were there last year are planning on returning. Also something that I have been working on with other burns is greeters, as that makes a huge difference for once people are on site to start living the principles and we could also look at doing some email about it as well (kiwiburn did some pretty good stuff like this) and is great for new and returners.

The money shouldn't be an issue for planning. We will not have confirmation for only 3 weeks but it will also be very similar to if we just run a normal sale (we can never predict how many tickets will sell) but we also have the back up plan that if this does not work, we will have a normal ticket sale ready to go pretty much as soon as this one fails, if it does.


Keegan Sun 9 Feb 2020 10:30PM

Thanks for than Jan, like my reply to Callum, people should be able to confirm if they are ok with the idea or not before then and the questions can be confirmed after the fact as they should make only minor differences (like how many we actually release etc)


Jan Thomas Fri 7 Feb 2020 6:41PM

I've been running ticketing for the last 3 years together with @Otto, and while I'm otherwise too busy this year to put a lot of time into this - I'm happy to support with my knowledge & experience, and would also join into a tickets meetup - great idea and probably the best way to eventually move this forward!

Regarding some specific questions you raised @Keegan:

  • Really like the structure of what you propose, but agree with Callum that regarding actual timing we should wait for feedback from the board on the open event critical questions - and also the location process which is currently in final stages. So the start of the sale might need to get pushed out a little bit eg by another week, let's see!

  • Kids tickets have always been free of charge, but we required parents to register their kids so we know who's on site. I would suggest to do this in the same way, i.e. any adult buying a ticket can add any number of kids tickets - which don't reduce the number of regular tickets. This was typically in the realm of 30ish kids tickets i.e. a small enough number to handle in a simple way like this.

  • Ticket transfers are important, but we don't need to worry about them until the sale has actually closed and we start charging people. Based on the experiences from the last year I'm sure we can put something together reasonably quickly, and I should also have some time again in April to help with this. Let's discuss in a little more detail at the suggested ticket meetup.


Keegan Sun 9 Feb 2020 10:27PM


Well I'm hoping with the timeline I've proposed that will give everybody the time to do what they need to do to answer the questions but they can confirm if they are on board with the idea or not. I won't be able to meet up in Berlin (currently in New Zealand) but happy to do like a big google hangouts or something


Callum Macdonald Fri 7 Feb 2020 1:25PM

@Keegan Awesome, great to have your enthusiasm in this mission. I'm personally thinking it's helpful to wait until the board clarify exactly how much freedom the consensual doocracry process has, but if you wanna just push on, I'm ready to support. What about organising a Radical Tickets Meetup at the Burner Embassy? I'd be happy to get together and come up with a shared plan, etc.


Fri 14 Feb 2020 12:07PM

Looking forward to this! I'll probably be bringing a few new faces (burners at heart, but first timers in practice).


[deactivated account]
Sat 8 Feb 2020 8:39AM

I am not a big fan of this system, as well as per the fact that kiezburn has a mere 25% of NON virgins, therefore most of the people do not have na idea about LIVING the principles. For me this could turn in a big headache having no idea of how much money will be raised, therefore leaving all planning hanging on the „will we have enough money for this and that“.


Poll Created Fri 7 Feb 2020 3:21AM

Lets make this radical ticket sale happen! Closed Sat 15 Feb 2020 3:00AM

Hey so I really like this idea and want to help make it happen. I will need the support of @Callum Macdonald as he is the master of the tech for it.

This is just super quick before I do a big drive but I will try come back and fill it out more but hopefully, this is enough for people to look through if there is anything specific sing out

You can see more of my thoughts a bit less organized on this thread and more on

So here is my proposal:

  • Tickets on Sale Sat 22nd Feb 2020 at 11am

  • 3 week sale period until 14 March

  • 1 week reup/confirm period 21 March so that people can change their amounts to make it happen if we need it.

  • Confirmed payment processing on the 21 March if we hit the target, nothing beforehand (date happy to move if it's fully funded on the 14th. Maybe on close of the 3 weeks if we have enough/all are sold.

  • I am happy to run normal ticket sales if it does not complete with sale going live maybe the 22nd of March so people are still hot

  • Comms going out ASAP that tickets are going on sale and key dates and direct people to the talk thread while we are confirming the last bits

  • Tickets will be open until all of the max capacity is sold

  • Only refunds if the event does not go on

There are still a few things that need confirmation but mostly can be done between now and the sale but all should be done before the sale starts.

  • Minimum budget so we know the targets and average required

    • Can we put a small calculator on the page that figures out how many tickets are left and min budget to find the average?

  • Payment methods, is just a card that pays online enough?

    • If not, what do we need to do to take PayPal or bank transfers? Has it been done before? Who to talk to

  • How many people can we have on-site?

  • What do we need to do to make transfers possible, THIS IS REQUIRED!

  • Do we have a minimum people can pay?

  • Kids/carer tickets?


Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 80.0% 4 DU G CM K
Abstain 0.0% 0  
Disagree 20.0% 1 DU
Block 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 242 J KK SE N L C JT T GE B RH J CD AN J NP JP F H DL

5 of 247 people have voted (2%)


Keegan Mon 3 Feb 2020 12:05AM

I really like the different ticket levels. It looks like there will be some set prices and then people choose which of that they want, is it going to stick like that or can people set their specific prices?

We do something very similar at burning nest but the low-income tickets are applied for 20% of our population with an average of 50 pounds. We plan our budget on people paying the normal price and then anything on top where people pay in higher then goes towards more arts and innovation projects.

Would it be possible to have:

A way that will calculate how many tickets are left and what the average price required is to meet our targets?

Have a system where people can increase their amount throughout the process, or in the following week so we meet the target?


Callum Macdonald Sat 1 Feb 2020 3:13PM


I'm taking a step back from this for a while, I've posted the full story here:


Benjamin Langholz Sat 1 Feb 2020 2:12AM

This is creative but seems super unlikely to happen 99% of the time and makes the system more complicated.


Callum Macdonald Fri 31 Jan 2020 10:40PM

@Marian interesting feedback. I think to make the ticket amount changeable. So people can come back later and update their price. We could also decide at the deadline to extend if we don’t get enough, probably doesn’t need to be defined in advance, also an interesting idea. 👍


Marian Fri 31 Jan 2020 6:53PM

Add a week or so after the end of the sale in which contributors can raise their contribution - in case we didnt reach the funding goal.

Two crucial differences between the proposes process and crowdfunding:
1) In Crowdfunding you usually have no limit on how many people can contribute (here it is 1000 - the amount of available tickets)
2) In Crowdfunding you can usually contribute multiple times (here: once)

In a Crowdfundign Campaings you have, as a supporter, several options if you see that the funding goal is in danger of not getting reached:
- Contribute again/more
- Help reaching more people who contribute

In my experience much of the dynamic of Crowdfunding Campaigns stems from these possibilities. A pattern that happens a lot is that as much as half of the funding sum is collected in the last week/close before deadline, because people choose to use these possibilities (and because of increased communication). With the request, we could introduce one of those possibilities and make it more likely that we reach the goal.

For me personally the I am willing to give depends a lot on how critical my contribution is to making the event happen which depends on how much we collect.

Not sure. Could either be actually changing what people initially indicated as their ticket price. Or maybe just as a donation round, that counts into the "crowdfunding".

Make everybody indicate two ticket prices
1) Price that feels perfectly comfortable
2) Prive I'd be willing to give if the event depends on it.

Maybe the alternative is even easier to implement and achieves the same goal.


Benjamin Langholz Sat 1 Feb 2020 2:16AM

I think If anything is to be done here I think @Alina, also known as Milda! ‘S idea in the other thread of the progress bar to a full event is likely the most effective way to encourage higher contribution. I would volunteer to quickly design this, but it’s likely pretty obvious. As they adjust their preferred ticket price they could see how this effects the overall goal.


David Fri 31 Jan 2020 6:18PM


  • If people choose the freely set ticket price, it would be very nice to also have a comment field, where people are asked how they get to the number that they will actually pay. This serves them to think more about how much they give, and it gives us valuable insight in how people perceive and choose how much they give. ("Please share with us why you choose this level of contribution:")

  • "Low income" implemented at 80 EUR. Lower values can always easily be chosen with the field below.


Callum Macdonald Fri 31 Jan 2020 1:59PM

@Franzi As I understand it, and what I shared with @Alexxx, is that this is a totally standard ticket sale with the following differences:

  • Each participant chooses their own ticket price

  • If the total ticket prices added together don't reach a minimum, nobody pays anything

  • At the time of sale, tickets are non transferrable, with the proviso that this might change

Tax wise, etc, there's no change to previous years. Arguably the ticket sale perhaps happens a bit earlier in the year, but there's no legal / tax implication of that which I'm aware of.


Franzi Fri 31 Jan 2020 1:05PM

Hey @Callum Macdonald, @Alexxx mentioned yesterday that you are sharing with him this detailed document that he will discuss with the Steuerberater. Can you please also share this with me? I am happy to look through it and give it a structured legal review


Callum Macdonald Fri 31 Jan 2020 12:31PM

@Franzi @Jan Thomas I understand you guys have some experience with regards to legal matters. If you wish to request any specific changes to the ticket process, please share them here and I'll do my best to integrate them. The ticket sale is essentially identical to previous years, just earlier, and with each participant setting their own price.