The Bear Necessities and Honey. How do we encourage infrastructure and community support program funding.

AK Alex Kaos Public Seen by 34

With radical decentralisation and the introduction of the dreams platform, a small dilemma could occur. What happens if 300 bio-glitter stations get funded but nobody applies for the projects of power, Wanderers or gate?

  • Should we have a biased Dreams platform to support/encourage the introduction/improvement of necessary and highly loved projects (i.e power, greeters, toilets, gate, Wanderers, first aid, security, welfare)?

  • If yes then how? And how do we draw the boundary between infrastructure/culturally significant and our wonderful decidant dreams?

  • Should larger and more ambitious Dreams be given some statistical advantage to offset the tendency of past burns for participants to "spray and pray" their votes/tokens broadly over smaller projects? (This starves the bigger, harder to fund dreams)

  • If so how should that manifest?


Alex Kaos Thu 7 Feb 2019 5:30PM

Here's my thoughts on the matter, just to get a ball rolling;
Under the assumption that each ticket purchaser gets 10 'tokens' to spend within the dreams platform, each token should have an estimated value of about 4€ (not finalized or confirmed, that's just an example).
The simplest model I have is that there could be two colours of tokens (i.e red and yellow), but more is possible. Then there would be two (or more) categories of dreams, being red and yellow. Only red tokens can be spent on red dreams (infrastructure and necessity), and yellow tokens on yellow dreams (the decedent kind).
The participant would then have 3-4 red tokens and 6-7 yellow tokens to distribute as they wish (depending on the budget predictions from the previous year).

  • The 'necessary' projects (toilets, security, Feuerwehr, water, first aid) would fall into the red category, but start at the minimum required funding in order to function. Then their 'inception dream' (stretch goal) would be the amount needed upgrade them to another level, if someone chose to take the task on.
  • Infrastructure projects (i.e Gate, greeters, Wanderers, power, volunteer kitchen, welfare) would also be red, but would follow the same 'start from the start' Decentralised methodology used with the yellow decidant dreams.
  • Yellow Dreams are the Art Projects we love so much. Dancefloors and sound-systems, naked body painting and bondage, pop-up bars and pop-up bands. I am also personally in favour of having minimal influence and regulation in this area, but that's just an opinion.

This is just an example of how things could be done, but totally open to suggestions or improvements. And very open to critical evaluations.


Henrik 🤖 Thu 7 Feb 2019 5:52PM

I have another suggestion:

We could just assure that the minimum funding goals of necessary infrastructure projects will be met. A percentage of each ticket purchased could automatically get allocated to these projects and it's up to the ticket purchaser if s*he wants to give more tokens to a "necessary" project (can we find a good name for this?) to help them reach their 'inception funding' --- awesome, go for it!


walto Sat 23 Feb 2019 1:57PM

Concrete example: toilets. We need a minimum amount, but, there could be a proposal to make fancy toilets (e.g. eco-toilets) that cost more. The person responsible for toilets, would thus need to make a dream that details the minimum and maximum cost. Welfare, gate,... all very similar.

However, we also need to be careful in how we approve of those minimums. Welfare and gate are good examples, where we want to have some quality check in place as in what constitutes "minimum"


walto Fri 8 Mar 2019 10:19PM

regarding infrastructure funding & dreams

I do not think we should be pushing these projects to the dreams platform:

  • power: impossible to estimate perfectly, and well... we just need it
  • water: same thing
  • legal costs
  • feuerwehr & security: we do not want this to be so transparent
  • site location payment
  • site perimeter costs (the red/white tape)
  • ticketing costs
  • first aid

I do not know what we should do with these budget posts:

  • signage (often only dealt with later, and costs are a bit variable)
  • Arbeitsamt setup (if that happens), the volunteers for this, might be too late to partake in the dreams platform submission & voting.
  • food for volunteers on-site before & after event (e.g. power & water volunteers)
  • transport costs: anybody volunteered to organize human transport to site? Could be a dream in principle, but kinda hard with no volunteers on that to be pushing it there... or?
  • rangers: unclear to me
  • LNT: depending on the lead, I would suggest?
  • ligts: Ponk & Eva did this in the past, if they can get on the dreams boat, then sure, but kinda expect this to be hard...
  • workshop & programme: if we would have a lead for that, sure, but if we would only get a lead later, does that mean we do not fund that? Possible...

These definitely can go on the dreams platform:

  • gate & greeting
  • welfare
  • toilets
  • effigy
  • temple

walto Fri 8 Mar 2019 10:06PM

@bobschi Good question. Not really sure... What I can say however, is that Dixi toilets, you cannot decorate the toilets. Only with eco-toilets would you be able to. Maybe it makes sense to work with the toilet team and talk about extending their dreams grant to include decorations?


Alex Kaos Fri 8 Mar 2019 11:13AM

I think a more valuable mindset is "how will the participants and users of the dreams platform handle a toilet decoration dream".
The project has to accessible to most participants, and no intoxicants funded. Other than that, our restrictions are currently quite unrestrictive.


Bobschi Tue 26 Feb 2019 3:44PM

How would you handle toilet decorating dreams? My partner and I might want to transform the toilets nearest to our camp into a fancy Alice in Wonderland potty party …


Bobschi Thu 14 Feb 2019 4:28PM

I am pretty much on board with Henrik, although I'd phrase it a little more aggressively: if it's "necessary" (I like to think of "infrastructure" that's provided like power, toilets, etc. pp.) those projects need to be funded outside the dream process. We also need a little buffer for overflows.

Maybe infrastructure projects only dream for "fancy extras"?


Bobschi Tue 26 Feb 2019 3:44PM

you're right, better call. :)


Bobschi Tue 12 Mar 2019 3:12PM

… we did decorations for the dixies next to Just Being last year. :)
But let's wait and see. _^

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