talk.kiezburn.org
Fri 8 Mar 2019 10:28PM

# Token value=?€

walto Public Seen by 58

Hi folks, since we want to launch by 10.03, we also need to transform the monetary value entered by the dreamer into a token value.

What we discussed during the workshop as a proposal.
Assuming that:
- we have an 80% participation of ticket holders (=800 people)
- dreams budget of x€
- 10 tokens per person
- 10% of art grants do not happen

We arrive at:
1 token= x€/8000/90%
example: budget=20.000€
1 token=20.000€/8.000/90%=2,8€

What do you think?
If ok, then we would just need @alexxx to tell us how much money he can give us :D

### CJ Yetman · Sat 9 Mar 2019 9:39AM

What is the logic of "10% of art grants do not happen"? You expect that of the total amount of money that is allocated through tokens, 10% of it will ultimately go unused/unclaimed? Therefore you want to over-allocate money so that when 10% of the allocated money goes unused, the full used amount will be equal to the planned budget?

If that's the case, shouldn't the formula be:
value = budget / (1 - unused percent) / (ticket holders x tokens per holder x participation rate)
value = 20000 / (1 - .1) / (800 x 10 x .8)
value = 3.47€

and then working backwards:
800 ticket holders get 10 tokens each for 8000 tokens total
only 80% of tokens are used for 6400 used tokens
6400 x 3.47 = 22208€ allocated by tokens
10% of allocated money goes unclaimed
22208€ x .9 = 19987€ used

or did I just misunderstand the purpose of that?

### walto · Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:54PM

Due to change in budget, the token value reduces to 2,64€

### walto · Wed 3 Apr 2019 8:19PM

nah, they enter a €€€ amount on the dreams platform, so no need to re-communicate this. tnx for the ping @loomikate

### Daniel Regev · Wed 3 Apr 2019 10:08PM

Hey, I (as a dreamer) found out about this from a fellow dreamer, and I do think it's important to update all the dreamers about any changes. Obviously, this current method invites all kind of strategy and planning. Therefore (and in general), transparency would be a very good thing.
Also, the excel sheet that was created to submit budgets through wasn't updated, so there is mis-information - far from ideal and can be highly confusing.

### walto · Thu 4 Apr 2019 10:55AM

Ok, then we should update the dreamers, tnx for flagging @loomikate and @danielregev . But the dreamers do not need to take any action, the dream budget will be adjusted automatically to need a slightly higher number of tokens from voters.

I adjusted the budget sheet yesterday, so should actually be fine? If still something wrong in the spreadsheet, let me know :)

### Daniel Regev · Thu 4 Apr 2019 6:00PM

Hey @waldo - yeah, how I see it is that for the sake of transparency and clarity, all dream guides should be informed and they pass the info on to the dreamers.
My excel sheet (budget) wasn't updated as I originally created a new sheet - the one that was posted was "view only" so I copy-pasted it and created a new one. I have now changed the "code" in my budget excel sheet to be 2.64 and not 3.5 :-)
Thanks!

### walto · Fri 5 Apr 2019 4:20PM

Za prozzezzez needz zo be furzer optimizzzed, but we are getting there :) Tnx for the feedbacks & pings!

### Jessy W · Tue 9 Apr 2019 6:05PM

@waldo if the guaranteed funding for dreams (such as welfare and rangers) is going to be added on the platform, when will that show up? might help people to have a better feeling for how funded things actually are when they cast their votes.

### Alex Kaos · Tue 9 Apr 2019 8:47PM

That seems like the reasonable option. Some people may spend their votes out of a sense of responsibility rather than choice if they didn't know that the minimum funding was already met.
Not that I want to discourage voting for awesome infrastructure stuff, but I feel it should be a transparent process.

### walto · Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:04PM

yes I agree, but we were slow with that... Better next year?